EK/QR/EY ? WY?
 

There were posts regarding which place is best to go in the middle east at the moment, but they're quite outdated now.

I'd like to ask straight and to the point - what is the best choice regarding such a career move for a:

30+ F/O with 737NG experience of 3 years and just slightly above employment criteria.

I am not married but live in a committed relationship and would marry (sic!) :mad: if deemed necessary or practical.

Forgive me not but I'm also not a big fan of arabic culture with all its orders and prohibitions therefore

My priority is to earn as much as possible and not be there more than 3 years.

I'd say unless I send back home 20 000 AED monthly this move is neither feasible nor reasonable.

If your alone you can save 20,000AED - you will have to budget, hold back on things and generally be a tight-ass but if that's your goal, it can be done. This budget will not be achieved if you bring your partner along and she does not work.

Moving to EK as an FO you will no send back anywhere close to 20k a month.

Living costs are astronomical and inflation is usually around 8% a year (already 3.99% this year and that's according to govt website), I can't recall a pay rise even matching inflation in over 10 years.

There is a big slowdown happening now at EK, expansion is stopping for a few years so you will probably be looking at around 10 years to an upgrade. Once you upgrade if you budget you could send back 20k a month if you live alone.

As for not being keen on an Arabic culture - I can't speak much for the other areas but for me Dubai isn't really much diffferent (day to day) to Europe, Oz, the US if you live and socialise in a predominantly ex pat area - like the Marina. You will hardly notice you're in the Middle East, apart from the heat. You will quickly notice a different mentality in management 'style' though....

Everyone has their own opinion and experiences.

Hope that helps, if you want more info then PM me I'll be happy to advise, it's a massive move.

The general feeling among my circle of friends here and back home is that Qatar or an airline in Abu Dhabi would be the best option now for a move to the Middle East.

Alan

Think you need to take a look at the QR rosters. Pay is about 15% behind EK as no provident fund. Management sacked the tail scrappers on the Boeing not that long ago. So don't think it is the rose of the sandpit.

My mates from EY have all left there. So don't know how that is going these days.

If you want money. Go to China. Take a mask.

Provident fund QR
 

I believe QR now has a form of provident fund ? Introduced fairly recently .

You won't save 20k a month in EK in Dubai as an FO with a wife.

Just out of interest, if you lived in the company accom on single income, what would one save per month? Living a normal lifestyle like in Australia or Europe.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. It is very different day-to-day experience than Australia, US and Europe. As far as Arabic culture is concerned, you don't get that at all. What you get is a GCC labour culture.

I believe QR is the best option at the moment.. Their pay is very similar to EK and yes they do have a provident fund which is 10% the company and 5 % employee contribution.. Also they get guaranteed 4-5 days off every month and leave every other month which makes going home every month fairly easy... In saying that its not Dubai but getting there..

Depends how you define 'commute'. It is definitely not a commuting contract as it's a full-time position. You can break your 6 weeks leave into 1 week blocks. They automatically give you 1 day after this so you have 6 x 8 day blocks. In theory you should be able to request days off (max 4) after this to create 6 x 12 day blocks but this never works either because the system is crap (good luck getting just a desirable layover request) or because the crewing people manually put a stop to this.

If saving money is your goal at EK you are far better taking the allowance. If you live in a 1 bedroom apartment you will save a quarter to half of it depending on the area.

If you're "not a fan of Arabic culture" I wouldn't even recommend a move to Dubai never mind the other two. China seems to be the place to go if all you're interested in is money.

Agree with all said above......and have a look at China

You don't like arab culture but don't mind arab money hmmmm great spirit

Haha another confirmation that pilots are no different to prostitutes...

What exactly is "Arabic culture with all its orders" ? I know of Arabs who have it in their "Arabic culture" whereby people go to church every sunday, have a glass of wine with their dinner, walk around semi naked, get drunk ..... all arabs and certainly their "culture" ... belly dancing ...


I think you are confusing religion with culture, Arabs exist in all forms. Be careful making such broad generalisations.

But more to the point I think you were trying to make .... Dubai is anything but an Islamic city.

I don't think 20k is realistic 10-12k is more likely what you could save and send back home. Just to be totally honest having lived here for 6+ years alone...

20,000 AED as an FO, highly doubt so

Sweet, thank You for all your information. I decided to apply to qatar (how long is the cirograph anyone?) and only worry if I make it, meanwhile browsing chinese offers. I might consider OmanAir too as transition between types for 737 would be less painful.

Yes, I'm a prostitute. Sadly, past my prime and cheaper than most expat football players in qatar stars league. Next incarnation I'll definitely reconsider some of my past choices.

Actually appreciating your honesty on here.
You won't save anywhere close to the amount you imagine, and can quickly find yourself In deeper debt.
Best of luck whatever you decide.

Depending if you get on to the 787 or 777 you can expect 45k-50k Riyals per month. (including all allowances and flight pay)
If you take a cheap accommodation (8-12k) and don't buy all fancy stuff, you should easily be able to save 20k a month.
Maybe Dubai is very expensive, but Doha is quite reasonable if you live a normal life.

Artlite, I presume you are an FO flying in the USA. From what you have posted, you will regret for leaving your present job. Be it QR/EK/EY/WY. US aviation is booming, stay where you are. If I had an airline pilot job in US, I would never leave US ! No matter what the money is. Always remember that there are many things in life more important than money !

On the other hand, If you are already out flying somewhere, and better money & decent lifestyle QR/EK/EY are equally good. Each one of them have their own advantages and disadvantages. WY 737, you'll be doing a lot of night runs and multiple sectors.

Transition from 737NG to 777 is easy. You would find 777 as a better version of 737 in many aspects but inferior in very few aspects. 777 long haul flying is much relaxed than 4/5 sector 737 flying and comparatively lesser cockpit workload.

True. One of the Pilot is my friend. He is still looking for a job. All he did was sit and watch in jump seat when it happened.

\\

The roster on the 787 is really good now with 10-15 days off in a row ! No idea about 777.

Well if you dont speak up when some one decides to use an intersection that leaves you less runway then all the other available full runway lenghts your OPT tool calculated was unachievable then Halas.

The above is valid only IF that person was involved in the performance calculation or was briefed about the full length/intersection calculation.

Well, quite a coincidence. Just their bad luck. If It was me, I would be extra conservative in such an airline.

Like the good old adage says....Runway left behind,fuel Left in the truck and altitude above you is of no use.

Maybe a stupid question from an interested outsider:
Why isn´t anyone in this thread even mentioning GF?

Maybe because GF has no vacancies for FO or only accept A320 rated pilots. Just my guess...

You can easily save $5,000 per month if you work for QR... You can save even more if you rent an apartment with someone...I fly for United now but I can tell you honestly that the money in QR was good compared to what I'm earning now( due to income taxes).. I do get more time off though than I ever did in QR.

Luvly Jubbly...it's simple, you sit in my flight deck? You are part of my crew... and I expect and welcome your input. No one is perfect and if you see, or even think you see anything that I or we missed I expect you to speak up! Loud and clear! To infer that by sitting in the flight deck as part of a ULR crew and only "sit and watch" and then let that size of an error happen without speaking up and then say he is innocent is naive and down right foolish! I would encourage you to rethink your statement.

If your not involved in the performance calculation you should not be expected to challenge a crew using an intersection to takeoff. The aircraft is certified to be flown by two pilots, not four.

And you cannot expect them to challenge an intersection lineup based on their 'eavesdropping' on your pre-departure briefing. Tell me, when you give the pre-departure briefing on are you briefing the backseaters? Highly doubt it - unless you like talking with the back of your head.

And how many backseaters have the confidence to challenge what should be menial tasks like accepting an intersection take off? especially towards Captains who refer to the flight deck and the crew as 'his'.

By the way briefing the 'backseaters' is SOP in a lot of companies

Can't remember if it was SOP in mine, but it certainly wasn't done.

Xhamster, worst and laziest airmanship ever

Thanks Motley. But if it's not SOP and the operating Captain doesn't call the other two guys in for a group briefing, would you expect a junior FO to say 'excuse me Captain can you include us in on your briefing please?' Get real.

X, you don't need to be involved in the briefing, just listen and look at the performance. I'm sure the jumpseaters in the Melbourne incident we're thinking to themselves 'damn, why didn't I just look at the performance figures'

Agree and personally I always did, like many others. But I don't think it was (not sure about QR) to have 4 pilots cross-check the performance calculations. It's very easy to Monday morning quarterback on these things and cite words like 'airmanship' and 'laziness', but the reality is that it has happened, more than once and I'm trying to take the point of view of the backseaters - if they were not involved and were not required to be involved by the SOP, then they shouldn't be held accountable. And perhaps they weren't included on the brief by the PIC, so how many guys in this situation, who hasn't calculated the performance figures, would now challenge the crew on their take off figures as they are crossing the runway hold point? In reality, probably not a lot. Anyway, major thread drift. I would like to see this taken to another thread or get back to the original of how it's a financial waste of time for an FO with a family to come to UAE!

What about nowadays is working in the unmentionable airline? I noticed that they open for DEC on the B777 .

What exactly is your question? There are many 777 FOs waiting for an upgrade - I don't know why they would be advertising for DECs.

Might take a bit longer for those FOs. They are currently recruiting DEC on B777 according their web page.