That's what happens when you have been fraternising with cabin crew during your whole career : you end up talking like one.

Well personally I'm quite happy not to be "invited" to a meeting on a day off.

Leading vs managing
 

A small difference of opinion in your choice of wording Harry .
The a/c commander leads the crew
& the entire operation once doors are closed . The purser manages the cabin , leadership vs management there is a difference I believe .

Aren't you a pleasant guy to work with Kobus? :ugh:

they say "sell in May and go away", I did that and I am so happy, best decision ever but I still love to hear from friends who are still there (for a few weeks) what they come up with on a daily basis, you can't make that S**t up.

btw they also say "cut your losses short"

Jack D

Absolutely there's a difference. Unfortunately, there is an increasing number of our colleagues who don't recognise that difference.

To arrive back from rest on the latest ULR to find the relief crew engrossed in wifi games on their IPads speaks volumes about leadership....wouldn't you agree? The same Captain that chats on his phone on the Dubai air bridge while moaning the time it takes for crew to do their post landing duties. The very same Captain through US immigration first then complaining on the hotel bus about the Arabic crew member held back. I could go on but I'm sure you've got the drift by now.

Sadly, there are some amongst us that simply expect to be respected because of position, but do very little to earn it. Probably the same individuals on these forums to complain about our Management culture. Ring a bell Kobus?

Harry

Yeah sorry Kobus..you're right. We shouldn't talk to the hired help. What was I thinking?

Leadership
 

Harry good point ! I personally have never seen some of the things you describe, but if that,s the case then yes , such persons cannot be taken seriously by any crew member & are in fact undermining the whole concept of professional leadership ,
Shame indeed .

u see this every ULR/flight ??

I am sure you must have made some reports.

Typical thread drift.

New AAR meeting tomorrow. I hope the ones invited make sure to get the point across...

You mean like it's been put across since 2004? Yep..should work.

Harry for once I seriously agree with you, I have seen a big deterioration in the "Captain" interaction and leadership when it comes to looking after the crew that they are charged with looking after as part of that "Commander" status that so many demand and have a sense of entitlement to treat others with contempt .

It's more than being an Ars@ to people, its called being an effective leader that looks after all the crew regardless on how annoying they may be.

Seconded. And I've seen some really cringeworthy briefings from the Operating Captain! A great way to set the tone for a trip:rolleyes::ugh:

LH (Lufthansa) pilots can fly until they are 65.

Ah yes. That's the major problem at this place. iPads in the flight deck.

Not the inhumane rostering. Not the lack of respect for any employee. Not the fear culture prevalent through every department.

Get a grip.

P&S...right on the mark...

Harry...you missed it by a long shot...Generally you bring some good arguments but this time its akin to Hillary calling Donald a liar!

We have far bigger problems than IPADS in the flight deck....

The Outlaw

With respect, I think you've missed the irony in your own post. The Company behaves shoddily, therefore so can we? Is that it? That would be a more apt analogy of the hypocrisy you quote.

Nobody would disagree with that last sentence of yours. Too bloody right we have far bigger problems. We're probably at the biggest crossroads in this Companies history right now and as has been mentioned previously, an email highlighting correct DFW PA's is laughable amongst the lack of important communication that should be distributed. THAT is an example of having a firm grip of the non essentials, not iPads. Being disinterested and frustrated with your employer should not be an excuse for being unprofessional. However, therein lies the problem. When a workforce is demotivated, they don't vote with their feet initially, they vote through actions. They become disengaged. They do the absolute minimum required to get the job done and no more. When it's my life on that plane and I disappear down the back for 6 hours, I want to be fully confident that the 2 jokers at the sharp end do a little more than the minimum. Don't you?

Save the phones and games for the layover at 3am in the morning when you're wide awake, not when you have the responsibility of 400-500 lives behind you. Don't dismiss those numbers. Just stop and think about that for one minute and the responsibility that's in your hands. I'd expect that behaviour and attitude from a petulant teenager, not from a couple of mature individuals paid well to do a job properly and professionally. It wouldn't inspire me much if I drifted off to sleep in the operating room with the last fading view of the anaesthetist playing angry birds!

If there is anybody on these forums that can't even agree with that basic process, they should not be pilots.....Plane and simple!

Harry

Once again Harry, well put.

Strange as it may seem to some of you there are still some of us that love what we do. There will never be a perfect world when it comes to aviation, but, we still need to take some pride in what and how we perform our duties and our responsibilities.

As Harry said, its not about carrying the people that we are angry at in the back, its about carrying people that have an paid hard earned money and have an expectation that the two characters at the front firstly know what they are doing and, secondly have some self respect and personal pride that they intend to do it to the best of their ability..... just saying.

u must be in training for sure..!! now I get it..