EK 777 Freighter-Dedicated Crew
 

Rumour is Habibis, they have canned the dedicated freighter plans on the T7. Not enough pilots funnily enough :ugh:

Lots parked up at DWC the other day i took one for a trip.

Also, expect Loadmasters on most flights, after the latest 2 f**k ups with loading. Apparently the order came from TC.

SyB :zzz::zzz:

Apparently announcement in September.

halas

There you go......

halas

Indeed, eating my words currently Habibi.

Nah, pass. A weeks rsv every month, unstable rosters, no requests ever, 2 years min on the fleet, the leave bidding will be a hoot!

SyB :yuk::yuk:

Wait for 6 months, see how people like/dislike it and then make a decision...

"Reserve weeks every month"

Didn't actually stipulate how often they would be but it didn't say every month.

Requests are so hit and miss anyway. :ugh:

Leave bidding now is a hoot. :(

halas

5-600 flying hours plus 2-300 dead head hours ..... that do not count towards your annual limit -> This puts me off the list!

Unstable rosters and more changes are a given with cargo ops, but there has to be a limit as to how they can push me around dh, with changes and cancellation, otherwise it's a handy tool to optimise crew usage. If dh would be fully counted, they would try to minimise disruptions and changes.

No requests -> No go either!

Reserve -> Has to be redefined more clearly.

Leave -> I guess that would not be a bigger problem than on the regular fleet.

Swap options and flexibility - not great on pax - worse on cargo with so few aircraft.

Further - RSV weeks will be allocated, didn't say how many. Nothing like a bunch of low (relative) hour limit pilots lying around to do a BEY or IST TA due 'operational requirements'.

🤔

Minimum Days Off
 

Did I read that right, minimum of 5 days a row off each month? But not necessarily in DXB?

Sounds like the perfect family life.....

Buyer beware!!
 

Those of you you have been here for a reasonable length of time will know that what is promised is sometimes vastly different to what is delivered! That is the nature of the beast.
If you believe the T's& C's as published (so far) then all I can say is to analyse the pro's and cons with a healthy scepticism before you commit yourself to 2 years of 'operational flexibility' requirements.
Those of you who are about to........ I salute you, as it will probably make my roster more enjoyable.

In the current system - you have exactly 33 hours to look and bid for freighter trips in the CRS. 8th 20:00-10th 0500.

That might give you a flavor of what's to come.

Depends if your standby includes passenger flights. If it does, as PT Barnum put it - 'there's a sucker born every minute', as they can pump your flying hours up to max on the standby month plus pax you round the place and get 150hrs a month out of you easily. Plus you could enjoy constant disruption, less days off, less days at home. Could you imagine being the dogs body for the passenger fleet every month.

If the standby is for cargo only, and you will fly cargo only then maybe worth looking at.

I think the statement regarding wanting to increase safety margins by having a dedicated and specialist freighter crew would mean unless desperate they wouldn't make you fly pax on RSV days - kinda makes a mockery of the whole thing otherwise.
I'm a little surprised by the number of people I know who are all over this (me not included) though. I don't think they'll have a problem filling bums on seats. As my neighbor put it "200 hours of deadheading = 200 hours of sleep, sign me up!"

Any idea/thoughts on how upgrades would be managed. I see two major issues:

1. Are you only offered the upgrade course based on seniority within the freighter fleet and only when there is a left seat to fill on the same. That sounds like time to command would be greatly increased as there probably will be less movement of the captains and definitely won't be any major expansion of the fleet.

2. If you get on the NaC course you'll of course have to fly pax flights during line training to get exposed to handling pax and cc. Then you'll be taken off the freighter fleet for some time. Sounds like that's a good excuse for the company to delay the upgrade.

Just some thoughts...

/Los

I think it would have been easier to use some of the RSV guys to crew the unpredictable freighter flights (as is currently done, I believe), rather than create a dedicated group of pilots. RSV offers that flexibility.

Anyway, I would not trust anything they say or promise....5 days off in a row? Why can't we have them now? Guys are away on 6+ day trips and only get 2 days max. afterwards. What will be different? Oh hold on, "we are creating a group of experts, an elite..." yeah right! Nothing they do is for us, I think we have had many examples before.
I would not go anywhere near it. You will be used and abused. Don't think you are going to fly only 500 hours for the same t&c's...

Divide and conquer.....

Is it me or is there still no freighter trips published in CRS despite bid closure tomorrow.

Inauspicious start?

I'm curious as to how many people they are looking for? And will it be by seniority, or experience level??

Lospilotos the way I see it you will keep your number in the queue for upgrade provided you meet all the other criteria and will be moved back to the pax fleet for your upgrade and will have to reapply for the freighter fleet once you've done your freighter line cotinuation flight 2-3 months later

The last time I remember management doing anything nice or helpful for the pilots was airshow passes back when LL was around, more than a decade ago. If they go ahead with the freighter fleet option it won't be because it is nice for the pilots. They've found some sort of angle which benefits them somehow and no doubt screws the drivers.

Freighter
 

How can anybody decide to go for this option without all the information needed to make that decision.

Just be aware that the holes in the info we got will be filled with unpleasant stuffing.

They never fail to disappoint.

If you have any doubts then just pass on it. Simple.if it has to go reverse seniority so be it. Those junior will have no choice and do their two years. I foresee all new hires and upgrades going freighter

Sure- but then the fleet requiring "special expertise" ends up with the least experienced crews- seems a little bass-ackward!!!

Time almost up for jumping into the unknown.......do I don't I ?

A final piece of advice
 

Just make sure that those who are making these promises of T's and C's (5 days and one week of reserve etc etc).......................................buy you dinner first!!!

Good luck on to those who will take this fork................... In the road to perceived happiness.

Do you guys think they will get the numbers they need to operate the B77F as a seperate fleet??

NO

But I doubt they will tell us that.

Going by car to work chats I think they will. Fellas getting all gooey about this.

You can tell a Boeing pilot...but you cant tell them much.

Oh Don.....I'm sure you'll tell them anyway.

What can't you tell them?

halas

The carrot is the five days off in a row each month plus significantly less time spent forward of the flight deck door.

It's a sad state of affairs when colleagues feel that the inevitable roster disruption along with walking into a unknown entity, is a price that's worth paying.

Its staggering within 8 years we have had the length of a string of days off be restricted, for no operational reason AT ALL. Do do your 78 hours plus any overtime and the rest off. I remember having 21 days off in a few months and a regular 16-18 days. Then the 7 days limit was brought in, Lazy Pilots!!, then 6, then 5, now 3.
And supposedly the 9th floor have no idea why the "peasants" are revolting!
Now the teeny tiny carrot of a 5 day string is luring those of us desperate for any kind of Quality of Life into an unknown situation with the only "expectation" of a 5 day string and 8 days in Dubai.
How low have we fallen?
Sigh.:rolleyes:

Contrary to what Don says, i have yet to meet one 777 driver who wants this, I am sure they exist. I have heard some Scandi drivers like the idea of days off in CPH. Fair enough, but what if that should suddenly change, commercial pressures, better profit on other routes.3 days in DAC, yummy Be careful what you wish for!

Well, the e-mail has arrived as expected, they obviously did NOT get enough take them up on the superb offer :=:= So they have done a question and answer session, calmly reassuring your worries. :ugh::ugh:

Ordinarily I like the freighter flying on the 777, once in a while. But 2 years on the thing, no thanks. Make it 6 months yes, maybe a year. 2 years no thanks.

Good luck to all the junior guys going on the freighter :ok::ok:

SyB :zzz::zzz:

Deadline extended to the 24th and emails sent with a lot more details of package.

Can't imagine that would have been forthcoming if the response was overwhelming.

If you do go - keep that email and never delete it.

I think AAS means well - but then again so did HD and his promised age of open comms & monthly Fleet Forums 🤔

If you believe one word of the utter BS these guys try to sell you about what will be promised then you haven't been paying attention. Speak to any guy who was promised a great schedule and 2 years only, to fly the 319, how that worked out. Speak to any of the 330 capts being downgraded. You will not be released after 2 years unless there is a replacement and once it's figured out how crap it is no one will be volunteering. Good luck with your choice

Get a written contract
 

E mails are worthless ! Should you choose to take up this freighter only offer a written contract outlining conditions is a must .. Only then do you have a chance ( albeit a rather limited one ) of recourse !

Im considering this freighter deal but as of yet haven't pulled the trigger on it.....As Im on the 777 fleet can anyone enlighten me on what happened to the 319 drivers ?

Well if the cut-off date is the 20th, and you receive this email the day before.....what does that tell you?

It's my understanding that the seats behind the cockpit are classified as biz class, no? Well what's to keep them from DH you on those? Just a Q to colleagues who envision 200 hrs cuddled in Biz or FC on mainfleet....if your trip starts with a DH why not send you with the freight

I have friends who have years of freighter experience......without SOLID rules you would not believe the crap that has been tried on them....shocking

I guess the wives didn't approve the terms and conditions !!

A possibility ?
 

The freighter operation will become a separate entity with different terms & conditions from mainline , just like SQ , CX et al . Should you not have an individual contract clearly stating these terms and the return to the pax operation , seniority & requirements for upgrade etc + compensation for breach of contract . The fact is you may well find yourself trapped in a totally different company . Cynical perhaps ? This is a chance to avoid being conned , pls think carefully . History has a tendency to repeat itself here . See previous posts !

Hula, the 319 guys were also told 2 years, when the rostering and rules were changed from the original deal to a much more company biased one people wanted to bail at the 2 year mark. Sorry guys no replacements for your position you will have to stay until we can con (whoops) find a replacement. Who really wants to go to a niche op with even less protections than where they are at already.