EK and Snoring
I've heard some rather disturbing stories about the consequences of telling the EK clinic that one snores.
Anybody had personal experience of this and would you mind sharing your story? |
I flew with a guy who had been to the clinic in Al Ain.
He was forced to wear a positive pressure mask when sleeping. This thing records its time in use and you need to submit the records monthly. He was a very unhappy camper. you DO NOT want to go down that path. Do your medical, keep your mouth shut and get on with your life. |
Trouble is JAYTO, keeping your mouth shut may not be enough. Google STOP BANG. If you meet the criteria the Clinic may send you to Al Ain.
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The medical is not an insanity check up (despite the Germanwings incident). The least you say or own up to and the quicker you are out of the doctors room = all the better for you. You passed and are certified for another year, no more, no less, desired outcome achieved.
Why create problems for yourself if there is no physical evidence being seen in a medical? I am pretty certain that everyone snores at sometime (especially after a few Vimtos), be sensible, why create doubt in a doctors mind? Unless a condition is really impacting your health to fly, then do what you need to do to pass the medical. Safe flying and snore free nights. Disclaimer, I did the sleep apnoea test and passed, it's scaremongering and a waste of 11k AED for the test. |
GCAA document after Google search will show you the questionnaire relating to STOP BANG assessment as SOPS mentioned. Choose how you want to answer those questions is your choice.
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don't forget the clinic is not there to help you its there to spy on you and intimidate you
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As one who went thru this bullsh*t....
Everything above is true. The doctors are absolutely your enemy when it comes to this stuff. Tell them NOTHING! It almost seems they're looking for a reason to ground you as if they have an internal competition for that... Or who can give out the most referrals in a month or some crap like that... For the most insignificant issue. There used to be a few "good ones" to go to who were big picture but they've been swallowed by the EK machine and run scared from fleet IMO. DO NOT EVER, EVER USE THE WORD SNORE AT THE EK CLINIC!! Kiss of death and career. In my 7 plus years, I had to take 4 sleep studies. And was required to wear this device my last year at Slave Ship Airlines, called a cpap machine 85%of the time while at EK.... It was required by GCAA. As someone says, the sleep is recorded on an SD card and you are required to send this in to sleep study doctor for analysis. Total and complete PITA! I know one longtime FO at SS Airlines who has been doing this for a number of years. Tell them at your own peril... |
So you have to take this thing on your overnights I assume?
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Is it approved for use in the flight deck?
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Everything above is true. The doctors are absolutely your enemy when it comes to this stuff. Tell them NOTHING! It almost seems they're looking for a reason to ground you as if they have an internal competition for that... Or who can give out the most referrals in a month or some crap like that... For the most insignificant issue |
All I can say to you gents is that you must wear it 85% of your life... If there's an outlet in the CRC, I suppose you could use it there as well if needed.
Innocent is spot on.... The doctors went head to head with Fleet back in about 2010 when there was an increasing number of SKF calls and fleet thought they could override the doctors and tried to do so. Well, the doctors retaliated by looking for ANYTHING as a reason to ground pilots in a temporary manner.... not so much to help the pilot per se but rather to show they ultimately controlled the pilots roster and availability... and I recall being caught in the middle of that. I'm sure it's still going on. The ONLY thing better now with EG Medical is that Nomi has left the building!! |
All I can say to you gents is that you must wear it 85% of your life... If there's an outlet in the CRC, I suppose you could use it there as well if needed. "Units must not be connected to any of the aircraft power sockets" As long as you do not do a Honeyball Lecter on me in the CRC, feel free to wear it........ |
Interesting.
Pax wanting to use a CPAP must have a letter/doctor's approval and carry batteries to last the flight. Cannot use the aircraft power outlets either (it's in the OM-E if anyone is curious) So is the clinic giving letters to the guys who are supposed to use them for them to carry it onboard? And how is the other guy supposed to sleep? Some of those things are noisy af... |
Flip me all this beggars beilief. They really do try and control most aspects of your life. Better to stay quiet at your medical than suffer this!
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Excuse the perhaps dumb questions but: What's wrong with snoring and how does it effect a person's fitness to fly?
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"Do you snore?"
No idea I am asleep! |
Just to give all an idea of how serious they take the snoring nonsense.... and I will ad this caveat... it was when Nomi was there at the clinic, and he is the single individual who basically started the "snoring" mania issues with pilots.
I had talked to a colleague who told me he went to the EK clinic dentist who said he should get a "mandibular device" e.g. something to help him sleep better. This thing brings out your lower jawbone so as to not obstruct airway when sleeping. Sounded good for me so a few months later (or longer) I made appt with same dentist Mentioned to HER(the lass) all he above and she said while I was sitting in the chair at HER office, "OK, I'll be right back". I waited about 5 minutes and she came back and reported this: "I went to ask Dr. Nomi about this and he says you'll need to see your doctor immediately about this and take a sleep study test". Needless to say I was absolutely livid that SHE mentioned my confidential (or what is in all First World Western Societies) symptoms to anyone else... and especially Nomi! I told her in absolute no uncertain terms she had no right to tell anyone else of my conversation with. Longer story short... I received to cordial letters from Nomi stating I was required to see my doctor. I begrudgingly did and the doctor rolled his eyes and I further said I believe my doctor/patient privilege was breached etc. He agreed and I asked him to write in his report that very statement and the doctor mentioned it would keep Nomi quiet on this one.... BUT I'D HAVE TO GO GET A SLEEP TEST!. I was not happy, but there was nothing I could really do. I thought about writing an official complaint against the female (Irish or Scottish) dentist but like all EK pilots, was just simply too tired to follow thru on it. Rather spend my few days off sleeping!! For those that take that sleep study test: If you have 5 or less AHI (apno-hypopnic incidents" for the night, you pass the test. Also remember, if diagnosed with "Mild sleep apnea", there is no treatment and you're fine and don' need to do anything. Don't let them tell you otherwise. Kap Ex Slave Ship Airlines |
What's wrong with snoring and how does it effect a person's fitness to fly? At first, I too was outraged by the idea that I may have a sleeping problem - having casually mentioned to one of our Docs that I'd been doing a lot of night turns and was tired. (Before the Gnome Doc was here I believe). I was sent off for a sleep test at the American Hospital and lo and behold I apparently 'woke up' 135 times in the six hours sleep I managed (wired up like a Christmas Tree); the thing is though I wasn't aware that I had woken - basically my airway was closing off because of snoring and after 30 to 40 seconds of NO breathing the body wakes itself up to get a bit of the good old O2... You'll find that the O2 SATS drop into the mid 80% range and that isn't good. I went back to the lab for a second test, this time with a CPAP machine, and ended up having the best night's sleep in ages!!! I now use a CPAP machine every night that I can - and if I don't use I definitely feel tireder the next day. To satisfy GCAA Medical requirements I'm supposed to comply with using it 80 - 85% of the time! I see a pulmonologist every 6 months so he can check the data. It sounds like a drag but I combine the visit with a gym/pool trip to Pharoahs' nearby... I DON'T use it in the CRC... But I do carry it on layovers and use it in the hotel... Sleep Apnoea has a strong causal link to cardiac disease and other ailments! The FAA are rumoured to be putting all 'large/obese' pilots through sleep tests too! From my POV? If you have Sleep Apnoea then do yourself (and family) a favour by getting it dealt with... You'll feel better and live longer... |
I agree completely White Knight!
I just have a bad taste in my mouth as to "how" it was done in my particular case. Yes, the FAA is starting to give out the sleep tests as well.... K |
As to the 'how' KL I do agree that it was underhand and in breach of patient confidentiality...
Sadly this is more and more the 'norm' here these days! |
The Gnome was a worry.
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The Gnome is history. Now the docs are trying to get the BMI thing removed as well, no actual benefit to the company. That may take a while.
The Doc remarked that most of the guys that are more often ill, or in the clinic are the skinnies, and those doing more extreme sports. Medicals, at least at EK, be truthful, but always be economical with what you say, always. SyB :zzz::zzz: |
https://www.flyingmedicine.uk
Just a heads up for anyone heading back to the UK. He also is on the medical board for a Big Airline. |
The gnome suspended a friend of mine's medical, he eventually got fired, now working at Qatar.
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The Gnome caused we a world of hurt, as it turned out for no reason....but he did me a favour.....he filled my bucket full of s@@t
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Jesus wept... the ‘meet the team’ page of the website looks like a Facebook selfie collection he randomly picked from some teen girl group.
Maybe they Service iPhone cameras too, and help people set up their own blogs? |
What a horrible little man.
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What about farting, is that OK? Not on the flight deck of course :(
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Originally Posted by jack schidt
(Post 9400311)
The medical is not an insanity check up (despite the Germanwings incident). The least you say or own up to and the quicker you are out of the doctors room = all the better for you. You passed and are certified for another year, no more, no less, desired outcome achieved.
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Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10026716)
https://www.flyingmedicine.uk
Just a heads up for anyone heading back to the UK. He also is on the medical board for a Big Airline. Also, do NOT ever mention 'headache' at the clinic either. If they can't identify what is causing the headache, you are grounded. Fix it yourself or go to a private clinic. |
Both him and his wife are second generation Brits, both their parents originally from India. Not content with their British passports, Mrs gnome made four visits to the US for extended stays, each one resulting in a return home +1. Obviously, a UK only passport is not good enough for their little darlings.
The first (and last) time that I met his wife, she admitted she thought she needed a passport to visit Scotland. She lived in Watford at the time! And no, that's not a joke. He himself is a conniving, devious and downright untrustworthy individual with the ethics of a sleaze bag. He's a small man with a severely over inflated ego and made the life of one of my colleagues very difficult, as he did for several of our pilots. The 'C' word sums up perfectly this despicable little individual. :mad: Harry |
Came across him once doing my medical a few years back. He was concerned about my weight gain (half a stone in three years, BMI 26.7) and went on asking me, with a concerned look, if I knew that about 100.000 people in the UK dies of fat related diseases every year!
Before realizing he was dead serious I replied in a country of ~60-70 million people statistically half a million will die yearly. Obviously the vast majority of them are slim so good thing I’m a little chubby then! He didn’t appreciate my math... |
Originally Posted by harry the cod
(Post 10027068)
Both him and his wife are second generation Brits, both their parents originally from India. Not content with their British passports, Mrs gnome made four visits to the US for extended stays, each one resulting in a return home +1. Obviously, a UK only passport is not good enough for their little darlings.
The first (and last) time that I met his wife, she admitted she thought she needed a passport to visit Scotland. She lived in Watford at the time! And no, that's not a joke. He himself is a conniving, devious and downright untrustworthy individual with the ethics of a sleaze bag. He's a small man with a severely over inflated ego and made the life of one of my colleagues very difficult, as he did for several of our pilots. The 'C' word sums up perfectly this despicable little individual. :mad: Harry This is not your normal defense of the company. I think a few of us are in shock! However a look at the link https://www.flyingmedicine.uk/ instantly gives a pretty questionable impression of the staff. |
Wow, Harry! What can I say?
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Oh my God, now i have seen it all. What an utterly unprofessional looking website. Is this for real?
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CC ,
Have you ever had dealings with this Dr.? I doubt you have ! |
Originally Posted by ClassCbird
(Post 10027498)
Oh my God, now i have seen it all. What an utterly unprofessional looking website. Is this for real?
All for one low price. Also looks like you have to be some sort of plastic fantastic to work there.:rolleyes: |
Yup :uhoh:
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Seems we should take he credit, he won a prize for experimenting on EK pilots. Seemed like a competent doctor at the start, who let his ambition and thirst for fame take over his life.
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