Ryanair roadshow in DXB
 

Ryanair will be at the Westin on Tuesday 10th May. No appointment necessary and they will be there from 10am until 17:00.

I believe you have to pay to attend right?

There was a typo in the flyer. It's not to be held at the Westin, but the Premier Inn instead.

No no it is the Westin but everyone attending will have to pay a fee to enter to cover the cost for Ryanair... :\:\:\

Coffee, Tea and Cookies will be served.


10 dhs. Each

You have to apply online to attend, cost will be 75 non-refundable if you do not pass the criteria to attend. Reserved seats 50, random seats 30 and standing row 20. Bottles are not allowed through the security, bottled water is obtainable for 20 and A/C will be switched off. As Camelrustler mentioned Coffee tea and cookies 10 for the cost price, sugar/creamer will be charged an additional 5 per cube/unit.

Where do I submit my bank account details?

Korea, BA, Jet2, Norwegian and now Ryanair .....well I presume everybody knows how happy we are here

Proof will be in the numbers, how many leave. Can't make it any worse but it could delay any improvement,if that is ever possible. Starting to think that the hole they dug is so deep impossible to fix.

STC is only barely holding things together. When he goes, which has got to be quite soon, I fear the worst.

He is also the only person in the world that might (emphasize) might be able to solve issues. All he has to do is ingrane a cultural shift that working with pilots (giving them dignity) could solve the issues (we all know stuff, especially rostering that would improve our lot immensely and not cost EK real cash)

A local would never understand the concept. Though I suspect STC doesn't either and he bought in early on the the middle eastern concept of treating people

"One-day assessments are held at London-Stansted with flights to attend provided on the
Ryanair network."

Ha Ha Ha Ha

Buggerall,

I think that's just a generic Ryanair recruitment advertisement and not ment specifically for the Dubai roadshow.

If (when) STC goes, it will be interesting to see who gets the gig. That might be the make or break.

MOL!!!!👍👍👍👍

STC

Is not leaving any time soon

Hurry up! You could be buying your own uniform and bringing your own water to the flight deck tomorrow! Don't miss the opportunity.

While living in your own country......

Wiz

For info, and living at home sounds brill...for the UK (sorry, don't have a pound symbol on my keyboard), I did some sums on the back of a napkin for your standard 2+2 family who want a decent little life when they get home:

- Mortgage, 4 bed in a decent area of Cheshire: 1500/month*
- School fees, 2 children: 2400/month (Private education 'costs £286,000' on average - BBC News)
- 2 cars, big and small: 700/month
- Monthly spending money: 4 x 400/week (minimum)

Must have missed plenty of other stuff. If they then want to save, they'll need, what, 300/month spare to make it even count.

That's before saving for the annual family migration to Spain, which is going to cost you 2500. Christmas is going to cost 1000 before it's done.

That means that if you don't want to get into debt and take loans or credit cards, you'll be needing about 82000, net, per year. That works out to 135,000 gross, 150,000 if you're putting 5% into a pension scheme yourself.

I believe that a TRE in a UK lo-co generally makes about that, or a BA/Virgin skipper.

How many TRI/TRE jobs are on offer at the moment?

- Numbers from thesalarycalculator.co.uk

*350k mortgage, 70k deposit, 22 years repayment

Dear 170to5:

I do understand we all have different expectations but;

Do you need:

£420K house, private education for your kids, two cars and exotic holidays.

That is far more than "a decent life" that is "a jolly good life"

I'm UK based, live in a modest £200K flat on the south coast, my kids were all state educated & I have a 11yr old Merc. I use the coach to get to work (LGW) and my wife has a job in an office that she enjoys, and which provides a little extra cash. We do enjoy the odd overseas holiday.

I have lived in the ME & FE, but I am very happy living in the UK, with my modest income, and modest lifestyle.

Life is not all about £££. It is possible to be very fulfilled with a lot less.

BRGDS

Checkmate,

I totally agree.

Can't put a price on quality of life.... However, it depends on what people use to judge it. As for me, a modest income in the UK far outweighs the perceived benefits of life in Dubai. I don't need a flash car, maid or private tuition for my children to confirm it for me. Equally, I don't need any of it in the UK either.

Each to their own i guess, but as far as i'm concerned, you can shove Dubai right up it's own ar*e.

Checkmate

While I agree that chasing the bucks shouldn't be the main priority, your comparison is slightly flawed. For a start, you said your kids were educated at a state school. Fair enough, but the inference is that they no longer live at home therefore living in a 'modest 200k flat' can work if there's just you & the missus. With a family, it can't, especially for what's available for 200k on the South Coast!!!! A quick search on 'right move' with a 200k price input might surprise many unfamiliar with the current UK property market in the South of England.

I'm all for a fair argument but please let's keep it real. 170 to 5 is merely pointing out that if you want to achieve anything approaching a similar lifestyle in the UK as in Dubai, you're going to need a bloody good salary before tax takes a big bite.

.....and not all of us have, or even want maids!

what-to-do

So why are you still in Dubai, or have you forgotten to update your location?

Checkmate

First, I absolutely agree that money isn't everything and I miss hugely taking the dog into the hills (on the days it isn't raining) and disappearing for 4 hours into proper nature. I also miss proper supermarkets, and the usual things, local butchers being a particular heartache, and going to a real pub instead of a British-style one in the Rotana!

But just to clarify, there was no mention of Range Rovers, holidays to St Lucia, homes with land and stables...a 350 grand house (sorry, I meant 350 not 420!) in Cheshire, or in fact anywhere near Manchester, one of the less expensive areas of the UK, will not exactly get you a palace...it'll get you something big enough for a family of 4, and the dog...and some garden space.

I would never call 10 days in Spain an "exotic holiday"...but to feed 4 people, fly them there, hire a car and a place to stay, will cost 2500 quid once you've bought those bloody reed mats, a crap brolly, a snorkel and some unidentifiable "cheese" and olives that won't get eaten from El Spar.

2 cars isn't a nicety; if I and the wife work, or even if she doesn't, we'd need a dog/child mobile like a Passat estate and something flash, like a Polo or an A3 if we're really pushing the boat out for the airport car...

People have their own opinions of private schooling but the vast majority of pilots I've ever met want private school for their kids and so do I, if you are lucky enough to live near one of the few very good state funded schools, that's great. Most people don't.

I can't believe that you could house a family of 4 or 5 comfortably in a 200 grand flat down South!

The point I was making is that for a lifestyle that is far from luxurious, but one that makes you think it's worth flying the new FTL limits, you're going to struggle in the UK unless you're a DEC with a working wife or a TRE/TRI, and when I hear people saying that they will leave Dubai to go "anywhere", especially FO's, it seems very naive.

I have no particular intention of living here forever and Dubai has plenty (PLENTY) of problems itself, but so often I hear the "Ah, but you get to live at home" argument, and it's usually from people who have been away for long enough to think you can get by having everything you want and will revel in being able to drive up the M62 to work every day on a 19 grand Seneca job. You absolutely can't and that's why, yet again, this roadshow will have very limited results once people do their sums. Of course the rest of Europe may well be different, especially if you are lucky enough to want to base yourself in Eastern Europe.

Do all these carriers read all the negative comments on pprune then decided to come to DXB and poach? You don't see them set up their stalls in AUH RUH or JED.

People seem to forget that before Dubai people worked for airlines all over Europe and were considered fairly well paid and lived reasonably comfortable lives. What happened?

Working in the ME has certain benefits thats for sure, one obvious one being cash. Some will argue that with the rent and grocery prices, the amount of available cash to save is being diminished annually. Add to this the day to day sh*t that one simply has to put up with in order to get through the day, begs the question, is it worth it?

How many pilots have left Dubai over the last 12 months? I for one have lost count. 95% of the guys I know that have returned, have done so to fly for UK based airlines on the derisory salaries that you mention. Those that I still talk to are very happy and glad to be away from Dubai.

I am surprised that as a captain in the UK, with a salary of 100,000 c.a. you can't make ends meet. I understand that Ryanair pays in Euros for bases outside the UK (125,000).

As I said, each to there own.

WTD,

I think we're in danger of having a reasoned and balanced debate on PPRuNe, and I don't think that's allowed, unless it's interspersed with name calling and petty squabbling...

Absolutely, can't argue with you, I lived with a decent FO salary (60 grand) and with a wife that was working, we could make ends meet. I'll say that that's all you can do, again if you're doing school fees and trying to save for uni/the many rainy days.

I think though, that people want to go home feeling like they've something to show for living in the sandpit, and disappearing after 3 or 5 years, which is what I'm talking about (not people who've been here 15+) is probably going to have been a complete waste of time and if anything will have set you back from when you left.

I'm not saying that salaries are derisory, certainly not, but a lot of people in work seem to think that they can keep the yacht on it...

I've heard so many people say that they're going to these road shows recently, that they're going to apply and that they'll leave for sure if they get accepted, no bother about anything because it'll all be better back home. My point was that the same people will go to this one, and then come into work and bang on about how they would go, but actually the money wasn't enough, would you believe it, like they didn't have the first clue of the package or the cost of living back home when they went...which pretty negligent, considering the amount of information out there, and it's also bloody annoying when it's the fourth time I've heard it...

Personally, I would love to own a 4 bedroom thatched cottage in Cornwall, overlooking a nice beach..... oh and a few acres of land to boot. In addition, I would also love my kids to go to a private school wth a good OFSTED (style) report and two cars.... maybe a land rover and a sports car too.

Back to reality.

I couldn't afford that lifestyle before I came to Dubai, and I don't expect to have it now. Moving back to the UK or wherever, is a transition that requires prioritising and reevaluating what is important. There were things that I could afford to do in Dubai that I can't justify or afford in the UK. That said, there are many benefits to being 'home' too. Most things are much cheaper for starters. Two/three bedroom house to rent in middle England is 850/1000 GBP compared with the average rent in Dubai of about 2,800 GBP (175,000 AED).

When people talk about private education for their children in Dubai, what is it they really mean? Is it that they just pay to have their kids schooled or that they choose not enrol their kids in a state funded school? Oh wait a minute, there isn't a choice. I would imagine that OFSTED would have a field day at some of the schools in Dubai. In contrast, there are private schools in the UK that are indeed affordable on a captains salary, with great reviews. However, you maybe want to put the Porsche brochure back down...... like I said, priorities.

The bottom line is this; if you're happy in Dubai and the money floats your boat, then stay and be happy, I wish you all the very best. On the other hand, don't dismiss life outside of Dubai. The wages for a LCC captain are appx 6,000 GBP take home..... give or take. If you believe that is not enough to permit a decent lifestyle, then fine. As I said previously, each to their own.

For me, it's enough. I have no debt and live in a very modest house, with a modest car, but most of all, i'm happy and glad to have left Dubai :)

Coincidence that the annual results announcement at EGHQ is the same day as the Ryanair road show??

Don't worry, you'll have time for both..

As one of the guys who left to return to the UK in the last 6 months, I thought I might be in a good position to offer a realistic and balanced view of things.

As always, it's all about personal circumstances and expectations. I did 7 years in Dubai with no regrets, but by the end of my time there that lifestyle and atmosphere simply wasn't sustainable for me.

I joined an airline as DEC based in my preferred location of MAN and fly 2 sectors a day mainly taking holidaymakers to Spain and back.

It is less money than my EK salary but the take-home after tax still averages 6k, after a recent salary raise to 92k basic plus duty pay of about 8k. To suggest a captain will struggle to maintain a decent life on that pay seems a little prima-donna-ish.

THE JOB:

Workload-wise, I will be probably be working 90 hours a month in the summer but only a few days a month in the winter season. At the moment that equates to about 600 hours per year because of the seasonal nature of leisure flights. It gets a little boring being sat on standby most of the month but with a 2-hour call out time you can easily enjoy your standby doing something local in the countryside. No night flights at the moment (could always change in future of course) and home in my own bed every night except for the odd call-out to a different base. Also the atmosphere at work is very relaxed, and "normal" for want of a better word. You'll have to bring your own sandwiches for a short flight, or a frozen dinner for a longer flight - no crew food here but free Typhoo, Nescafe and water at least!

PROPERTY:

We now live in Mid-Cheshire 30-40 mins from the airport - the real cheshire with dairy farms and country pubs, not footballer's wives and Ferraris. The price of property is far cheaper than what you suggest in North-Cheshire and 200-250k will get you a substantial enough family home in a village with no crime and pretty scenery.

STATE EDCUCATION:

My boy goes to a country village state school with only 11 kids in his class. His education here so far has been better than at JESS in our opinion. Whilst it is true that the facilities are not as extravagant, he's certainly happier with what he has around him.

THE COST OF LIVING:

We did 7 seven years in Dubai and used some of the money we saved along with the provident fund to buy a modest family home. We also bought a 3-year-old family estate car and a 5-year-old compact car for the missus using more savings from Dubai. Therefore by being sensible and realistic we have no mortgage or car loans to worry about and we allow ourselves to enjoy a couple of weekends away every month staying in the very reasonable Premier Inn around various parts of the UK. My little boy loves it! We still save a good chunk of money to top up the 8% pension from the company. And we have a nice week booked in the med in August at a 4 star hotel for less than 2k.

Of course that's just what we wanted in terms of lifestyle and everyone has their own different goals in life.

It's also true that a brand new EK first officer probably wouldn't have the same level of provident fund or savings to enable a debt-free life in the UK so maybe this is only really an option for 7-year plus Skippers.

If you have a realistic expectation of lifestyle and do not rely on the Bentley or the speedboat, an average UK lifestyle is easily achievable on 6k a month. Maybe not in London of course if that's your bag!

Admittedly I've only been here six months but we are extremely happy with the way things have turned out. Horses for courses and all that...

Guys guys guys, the (few) ones who will take the plunge and head back to Europe (or to the south east UK even better) are in for a HUGE reality check...

PS I don't work for Ryanair though - it's just that the thread has drifted into a discussion on UK vs ME.

If that's your opinion fair enough, but could you back it up with some like-for-like comparisons so guys could make an INFORMED decision. If it's Ryanair you are referring to I cannot comment as I don't work for them. I was put off by no guarantee of basing. Most guys want the UK basing written in stone.

EDIT: Just noticed that you don't actually work for EK, so maybe not in the best position to offer a balnced view, no?

OR

Really well said and thanks. Great - and unusual - to have proper information without 90% opinion and guesswork, glad it's working out well for you...

I don't think it's particularly prima-donna - with school fees, should you want it, and having to pay a mortgage, I think you'd be right on the money with your salary plus an extra to TRI/E as I said, but if you are able to find a good state school and are happy with the kids going there, then great...it's not the same everywhere but I know that Cheshire has always been very good for schooling quality by comparison with the rest of the country, so perhaps that's a geographical consideration and we're lucky to be linked to the North West.

But the numbers you mention are nice to see, maybe the desert has made me cynical, it has about everything else and as you say, I am looking at it with no savings behind me to speak of and that must make a significant difference to the sums. Nice to know that it is possible to leave here with money in the bank!

Hope the rest of it works out well for you, I do miss going to Delamere Forest for a Christmas Tree and the memories of stinking the aeroplane out M&S Curry (or Thai) Day in work on the way to Tenerife are always there...

I agree - I think the schooling is the big thing... IF you do want private education it WILL cost you in the UK at high-school level. And if you live somewhere around Crawley for instance I suspect state schooling may not be that great. Although I don't live there so can't comment...

I'll edit my advice to reflect the fact that Northerners have something to return to ;-)

The figures 170to5 posted are right on the money - I know from 14 years of paying exactly those amounts for a modest three bed semi and two kids' school fees. British state education is abysmal, the worst in Europe and possible the developed world. ANyone going back there owes it to their kids to send them to a decent, if modest, public school if they don't have access to an old grammar school.

Watch out with RYR contracts. They vary significantly from base to base, and you could be relocated at the drop of a hat. Check the small print very carefully.

The small print costs extra.

Wow! Where in the UK were you living to pay that, the south east?

The U.K. education system may have it's problems but it's mainly in the poorer areas at the schools with lower ratings. The better schools rate higher than many private schools. I know it's all about where you can afford to live but I'd take a good punt on OFSTED rating the best of the Dubai private schools as no better than good UK state schools.

I suppose the problem is that if you want to live near London you won't be able to afford a decent house in a decent area; therefore the state run schools in that area will likely be awful too.

My advice would be to go for a job at a regional airport like EMA, NCL etc where you can live 20 minutes away in the countryside for a fair price, and get the kids a good state education too. For those who need to be in London I guess there's no way out apart from China on a commuting contract.

Thank you
 

Thank you guys for a brilliant thread so far. It's a shame EK has some of us stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Tough to decide to move to the left seat or cut your losses and head back home...

I wasn't planning on commenting again but I will say that while I agree that a lot of Dubai schools would more than raise eyebrows with OFSTED back in the UK, the more common names amongst the pilots (at least the European and non-American guys, a lot of the US guys seem to use DAA, which I know nothing about) are known to be very good, at least the equal to a very good school back home. My wife's company has a steady flow of people coming and going, and coming again and the consensus is that school in Dubai, for the usual suspects, JESS, DESS, DC, King's (for those who have the spare cash!) etc, is actually very good in comparison with comparable schools in the UK.

I can't comment on UK state schools but I know that there are those that are extremely good, the Grammar and RC schools especially, and those (Byker Grove etc) that are less...desirable.

Can't remember off hand but the schools that are at the top of the tree, that you might have to put £3/4k (got the symbol on my mobile) per child per year in for, have a UK ratings board and have a very good reputation...

Anyone whose children have graduated to uni or work able to comment, seeing as this seems to be diverging from the RYR roadshow?