Pilots' fatigue investigation
 

Hi everyone. My name is Paula Slier, I am the RT (Russia Today) reporter involved in the story on pilot fatigue related to the Fly Dubai crush. We are really concerned about the welfare of pilots and we want to help expose airline companies that exploit their pilots by making them fly unreasonable and fatigue-inducing schedules.We will treat any information given to us with the utmost confidentiality and those former Fly Dubai pilots who are talking with us are happy with the way we are managing our investigation. Anyone with information please contact me at [email protected]

Here is some of the work we've done so far:
https://www.rt.com/news/336514-flydu...fatigue-crash/

https://www.rt.com/news/336821-fatig...lydubai-pilot/

Hi Paula, thanks for your message.

I have to tell you that in my previous job I was a union representative, and my work was focused on dealing with media.

After some years there are quite a few things I have learned, and sorry to say, but I believe people has to know.

For journalists, their trending hashtag is like a trip for us: it brings money to the bag for some days, but as it runs old, the only thing in the horizon to keep the bike running is a different trip, a different article, a different hashtag, a different story. And you and I know that it is not you who decides what's trendy or not every morning.

More...it would not be the first time, nor it would be the last, that an amazing tale to be spread is just cut in half forever after some airline (or company related to any other industry) marketing manager calls to offer a nice advertising contract...exchanged by silence. You and me know this is true.

That day, two things will take place: first, the half told story remains dead until another tragedy resurrects it (because it is trendy again) and maybe, maybe...some guys that approached the story teller with hope are left out with nothing but the threat of their initials found out. About the last, don't get bothered, there's a lot of honest professionals everywhere and I bet you are one of them, but again, you and I know this has happened...

More...this is a sensible and specialized business at the same time, and I've long and strongly struggled with journalists to get them to tell about aviation related matters in a way that public understands but does not fall apart when it comes to being strict about what things really mean and stand for. You can do a lot of good with your articles, but the bottom line is thin, and can do a lot of bad to us who make a living out of this, spike fears among our clients and not serve the purpose you are seeking with good intention. Because, listen, there's a big bunch of fine stuff that could outcome your job, but most of the time in this issues the result ends up summarized in the eye catching material.

In my ideal world, long experience backgrounded, only professionals should write about some matters, and never be taken hostages for it, never fear that the truth has a price that is paid in the unemployment queue.

But we don't live in that world, so my advice to you and all is: be careful what you write, be careful what you say.

Thanks.

Oh great RT Russia's answer to Fox News

Hi Paula, read your article https://www.rt.com/news/337128-emira...tigue-scandal/ and although not privy to the ins and outs at Emirates I appreciate you looking into this. Unfortunately this is not a Emirates related issue but an industry wide one including ColganAir in the US, various Lowcost outfits (including in Russia!) and it needs close attention...

Not an EK issue!!! You are joking right?

Paula all I would say is keep digging as you are doing a good thing, and giving a very public
voice to people who normal get told to 'shut up and get on with it or there's the door.'

Take some time to peruse some of the threads in the Middle East section and you'll get a flavor of what goes on. It'll also make it easy to spot the mgt trolls who try to counter the message but stand out like a sore thumb.

It's a VERY real issue, that as we've all seen can have horrific consequences.

So Ana- C

Tell us what RT have written in that article that is not true?

Paula

I am sure lot of pilots express gratitude silently for what you are doing. Most may not come out with information. Not that they don't want to, but the system is rigged to prevent from doing that.

Mgmt uses carrot (PR budget) and stick (worldwide legal reach) to suppress media. Unlike western media my hope RT is immune to both.

You may observe no other media outlets and aviation safety experts will pickup on this and RT will be discounted promptly. They care about their annual image/brand management contract revenues from airline, not safety.

Good luck

PS - look into factoring, and 24 hr rest periods, at EK.

Factoring, Variations, Annex's, reduced rest, ....the list goes on. My compliments to the author for her work, and providing an outlet to so many.:ok::D

how about leaving home base knowing very well that you will have to use discretion on a multi-sector flight...:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Request to all regulators to impose a limit to changes in circadian rythms.
Ie a briefing at 10 pm,landing at 6 am followed by a briefing at 4 am followed by a landing 10 am ,followed by four sectors starting at 4 pm ending at midnight.
That would be a good start,see what they say.
Only regulators can change fatigue issue,airliners are just using the rules to the extreme,just as tax evaders do.

Give the journalist the benefit of the doubt. If one can inform without killing the goose then help them. What does it cost one to provide evidence? If the story dies after a week.... Well, it died. If it doesnt and the box gets opened for all and sundry to see.... Well it's there.

Just off topic but in your reports when you say the word "fatigue" you sound really aggressive. Just a word of advice to maybe soften up when using this word.

too much:
sorry but fatique is a standing terminology.
There is nothing to soften!
And why, don't you wana see the truth?
Please go back to Costa!

EK Statement: Quote

CAR-OPS stated prior to JAN 2016 revision: LRO (Long Range Operation), any flight time over 14 hours the layover at off base location should be minimum 48 hours. However the note at the end of the paragraph said: all pairings accepted prior to the revision can be operated as approved.
New revision JAN 2016 is changed. The entire paragraph regarding the LRO has been removed, including the statement above. I tried to find any relating limitations regarding LRO in the current CAROPS, it is just vanished. Can somebody point out that I am incorrect in this matter? For who's benefit this goes again and by who.

It did say "should".

It's the same the world over; the difference one word can make, changing "shall" to "should". That way, authorities can lay out the rules, but tacitly let companies flout them without it bouncing back in the authorities' laps when it all goes awry. It is a global problem, not just local, this attitude to regulations and looking for loopholes, and appears in almost every industry.

It is because money men run almost all of those industries, and non-specific bureaucrats run the authorities and regulators, not professionals relevant to that industry (like doctors running hospitals, teachers running schools or engineers running construction or manufacturing businesses or regulators). The money men and bureaucrats have complete detachment from what their business is actually about, only comprehending spreadsheets, rather than the business and its staff. It appears to resemble some kind of autism.

Captain's discretion is exactly what it says.

Very tricky to decline a flight departing home base on a multi sector day claiming you will enter discretion as that will only be the case on the final sector. You can then say no and get a lay over at the hotel on minimum rest. I know of a Capt that packs an overnight kit for just such an occasion.

I have refused discretion departing DXB on single sector flights 3 times and have never heard anything from HQ either during or after the fact. A lot of pressure but if sticking to what you believe then crewing will back down.

Just have to pick your battles and avoid the ones you will never win.

Aluminium
EASA doesn't have too many "should's" its been tightened up a lot. It has also stopped a few crew practices such as swapping rosters to get back to backs and loads of off days (fatigue goes out the window then funnily enough)

Fatbus, what is your f#€ing point to answer "should"? That is so irrelevant. There is the question mark at the end of the post. If you don't have anything to write then the word "should", don't do it at all. You miss the point here. My question was genuine to ask if any of the guys knows where GCAA placed the regulations regarding the LRO operations?

Some of you are real jerks in responding to such proper request from media personnel. I can't think of a more appropriate and respectful manner in soliciting information in this professional forum with name and credentials provided.

Here's how it should go, first and foremost, Thank You, Paula, for your time and effort in addressing an important aspect of our profession, especially in this part of the world.

Since I do not have anything helpful to furnish, I do apologize for wasting your time in reading this. Just can't stand the pxxxxs who are never satisfied with anything in their lives.

How do you know the "pxxxxx" on here haven't already contacted Paula.

Guys that is our only chance to get heared out there, so take the straw and help the evil system to come to fall!

How many straws do you need?

The chance is here now!

Even if GCAA follows EU CAR.OPS FTL rules to the letter, night time curfew at European airports should provide some relief to EU pilots. Am I wrong making this assertion??

notapilot15:

totally right, here we fly around the clock!
Just look at the midnight peak at DXB what is going on here!

IFALPA now involved as well

Pilot Federation on Emirates Airline: Crews' Fatigue Threat to Safety / Sputnik International

Notapilot, curfews are far from universal, and with the time zone changes, are of limited benefit to us.

The biggest problem is the number of 24 hour rest periods, which is the worst possible duration - go to sleep on arrival at the hotel and you report to work after a long period (12hrs+) of being awake. Try to stay awake on check in and you're extending a long day even more, which needs longer sleep. We need odd multiples of 12Hrs. It was in JAROps to avoid multiples of 24hr rest for that very reason. It would be difficult to schedule anything else at outstations where there is one flight per day. That it is the norm at home base is disappointing.

Aluminium shuffler

I understand and I was trying to compare Ryanair and Emirates. Even if Ryanair want to make its pilots work more harder it cannot because airports are closed. Makes Ryanair better working environment than EK/FZ.

EK/FZ with no local curfew and unlimited destinations, there is no limit to productivity.

Talparc

Are you also positing under the guise of in freedom as well? :}

Emma, sorry I don't get your hint?
Just go ahead drinking coffee in costa!

Talparc, In freedom et al... Just for my understanding...
Whoever does not agree with you must be management?
I should go and have my paygrade adjusted then... :D

I, for myself and from own experience go with Ana Cleto and would never trust a journo (nor a foreign union, especially not the Draculas of VC)with any kind of sensible information. It WILL be held against you/us/the industry... once they have reached a goal or media coverage is not paying out anymore.
Just another word to promised anonymity... Forget it. You will be presented as soon as some pressure is put on.
This does not mean that I agree with what is going on in EK, but for me, this is the wrong way to go.
And yes, you will find me at Costa's... every time before I walk into the briefing room on departure level.

What_goes_up

Fair enough re some journos

Okay all ears. What is the right way to go?

what_goes_up

What do you mean by foreign? It is a zero fatality event as far as owners and management are concerned. It is also a zero financial loss event considering insurance company pays for the plane.

Like vortex said, they rolled the dice, may be their model predicted 400+ Indian lives will be lost which wouldn't be considered a big loss. Unfortunately 40 Russians lost their lives and Russia/RT is not going to let it easy.

Jarops . OMA 0.1.6.1

vfenext
you are an extreme not smart person

Fatigue is a huge issue in the airline industry .. I am in disbelief at what an airline / governing body allows a pilot to work and think it's safe .. they know that if there's a big accident that does not involve a technical problem with the aircraft then it will probably be labeled as PILOT ERROR , never the airlines / employers fault ... . Its not unusual for businesses to put fear and pressure on its employees . The difference in our job is that of hundreds of lifes are continually put at risk because of it ..

I think previous posts will prove I am most certainly not a regular visitor to Costa within the Atrium. All I was saying is that there seems to be a uncanny similarity between the posts between Talparc and in freedom.

Whilst I am all in favour of change, how much lobbying to the press is required before we see our masters bow to pressure from press articles? For EK to make any favourable changes in the wake of the crash would be tantamount to an admission of guilt. It would also be an extremely embarrassing move for them to make, given the timing. Moreover our management would never wish to be seen to be placed with their backs against the wall by their own employees. The harsh reality is that the company will not take action unless they are forced to by a higher authority i.e. a regulator.

If you wish to lobby then perhaps targeting elsewhere within Russia, other than the media may perhaps be more successful? Whether or not fatigue was a contributing factor is up to the Air Accident Investigation Commission to decide but the Russians do have for the time being at least, significantly more leverage than many other foreign regulators. The credibility of the GCAA and the future viability of FlyDubai is largely within their hands. The Russians are also in the rather unique situation, whereby they have little to fear should they wish to bring the GCAA and/or FlyDubai into disrepute. Any political scandal that may ensue, would be nothing more than a 'storm in a tea cup' for the Russians.

In Russia it is very much a case of who you know and not what you know. Maybe looking towards a pilot union in Russia instead, maybe more lucrative than you may care to think? Just a thought.

Notapilot, most RYR airports are curfew free, so I don't understand what you mean.

I have to agree with the comments by What Goes Up - I'd be surprised if confidential sources were not disclosed when the inevitable libel cases start. Be careful what you say, and make sure you have records that substantiate claims.

EGGY1

Thanks ol chap you've made my point perfectly.....standing out like a sore thumb.

I think you're made......time to retire that name and try, yet again, with another one.

Enjoy Costa!

Agreed, not another ADD or TRV turnaround. Ultimately after all the pressure, T7 drivers finally got augmented crew to operate the MLE sector!