EK F/O - Cost of living in Dubai
 

Hello folks.

I'm from South America, turboprop captain (former jet F/O), married (1 kid). Current salary only 3.500 USD (since my country money is tumbling compared to USD). Average days off is only 8 a month, average duty 11h a day and about 5 landings. No benefits from my company (only health care, for wich I pay 50% of everything). Thinking very seriously of moving do Dubai (stage 2 of PSP coming this month).

When it comes to the cost of life for a couple with 1 kid, what can you guys tell me? I like comfort (not luxury), so I'm not the type of guy to buy a BMW once arriving there, not even the one who has dinner every week in those fancy international hotels. I just enjoy being home with family...

For those who have a price number, can you help me? How much do you guys spend on:
_ Supermarket
_ Car maintenance / fuel
_ Anything else you consider important on your monthly budget

Thanks a lot! Fly safe.

Hi Jose...

Well, I believe the folks will suggest you to check numbeo.com. It's a website that compares the cost of living between cities around the world.

Give it a try. Looks like the prices are updated by users, so, everything is probably very accurate.

All the best.

:ok:

Yes, I read a lot and 100% of the guys told that the first year is a tough one. That's why I'm so curious about where does all the money go.

I also read that one guy from the USA could handle the initial furniture "battle" in IKEA and said there was money left. Wise man (if he's true).

Despite the initial furniture, supermarket and schooling (I want to keep my little boy at home for at least 1 more year - he's only 1 year old), car maintenance/gasoline, is there any other significant cost?

Just for curiosity and as an example, converting my local money to AED, I've been paying 400 AED on electricity, 150 AED for water, 250 AED for gas and my car (a 2014 medium sedan from Honda) spends around 700 AED of gasoline (1000 AED / year in maintenance). It's VERY tight for my current salary (sadly).

Money can evaporate in the DXB heat. Every time you go to the grocery shop another couple of hundred dirham disappear. When you want to get the family out of the house, it will cost you. Especially in summer, when it's too hot to be outdoors. Some wives and kids head back to home countries over the summer holiday break. Not cheap.

Every holiday you take is an overseas holiday. Take more than one (your leave will be given in multiple groups), and your up for tickets, travel insurance, accommodation (staying with family/friends wears thin as years pass). Not cheap. As a new joiner, your staff travel onload priority for discounted tickets is low. Flights are normally full. This means expensive firm tickets, or full fare tickets to ensure you and the family get to travel.
Once the children start school costs go up a lot. Most of the school fees may be covered, but you will still be left with the final Aed4000 to 7000 per child to pay (10% the company let's you pay so you feel you are contributing). Then there are uniforms, and a constant amount of other costs that all add up, excursion here, after school activities there, etc etc.

When you do get a chance to be home and take the Mrs out to dinner. You can dine at nice places that will give a good discount. But even then, the bottle of wine will set you back $US 50 to 100 for the cheapy.

I saved very little as an FO. I was lucky that we received profit share each year, and that paid off all credit cards. And I had no car loans etc. That was a while ago, and salaries have gone up since then, but so have the prices.

If you shop at Co-op or Aswaaq or Maya etc, you will save at least 50% on your food bill. And the new Co-ops have everything that Spinneys has, except of course Pork products. So groceries actually don't have to be that expensive to be honest. If you take company housing you will not pay anything for power, water etc, (although they have a ceiling- I don't know anyone reasonable who has reached the ceiling). Your internet /tv services and phones etc are quite expensive- I think our plan that covers internet and tv is about 900 dhs a month. Arguable if we actually need the tv.
It is the children that cost- school fees, transport,all the extra fees etc. Even preschools are stupidly expensive and they will have to enroll at a ridiculously young age like 3 or 4. Over the years the kids will see their friends with iphones, personal drivers, mega birthday parties, mansions etc - you will have to refuse to bow down to the pressure- or if you do it will cost you a fortune.
And as mentioned above, holidays will cost a fortune. Car rentals, restaurants etc. Unless you have a home to go to each time in a nice locale. But living here long enough you will want to see Africa or Asia or Europe etc etc. Petrol is cheap. Maintenance is a bit pricey but not prohibitive unless you get a high end vehicle. Car insurance 2500 dhs a year for a 2015 sedan.You can survive on FO salary but highly unlikely you will save anything.
You won't see your family much until they get this staffing issue sorted out- if ever- so you need an independent wife. Good luck on your decision.

Pumpkin, good post. Anyone with any self control can save a little bit on FO wage. Elife @600 aed. Mobile @100 x 2
Don't go nuts and don't promise the wife the moon.

To put things into perspective:
When I joined the fo salary was 16700aed. 500gr of minced beef cost 9aed.
Now that same pack of minced beef is 25aed. How much is starting salary for an fo now?

Nuf said

Self control is only part of the picture!

If you have 2 or 3 kids then the costs will obviously be different then having one toddler. Significantly different.

Even IKEA can be expensive unless you are buying low end. THIS is where you have to be careful. You are moving to Dubai and it will be your HOME. If you - more specifically your wife and family - can live with sparse or cheap furnishing then great. But most want to make a life here and the plan is not to stay just 3-5 years. So making it a home is important. Do you want grass and plants in the backyard? It will cost.

The simple fact is moving and setting up in a new country is expensive. It is also a balance between comfort (home) and saving.

Buying used is a GREAT option now since the oil industry is laying off thousands and their stuff is generally newer and in great condition. Dubizzle.ae


I still maintain that for even the most careful spender it will take a year or slightly longer to get to the point where you are consistently saving money on a monthly basis. This is why many are choosing EY and Qatar over EK - because the upgrade comes soon and along with that the pay.

Are there guys that have experience being married but instead of moving with the whole family to Dubai, leave the family back home and move by yourself to Dubai and fly for Emirates?
And when you have days off fly back to visit home and during school holidays let them fly out to Dubai to visit me.

I know I will not see them much but probably them living in Dubai I will not see them that more often either ;-)

Anybody experience with this?

I know of a number of pilots who tried to commute to EK leaving the family at home from where they were from. I also know a number (some personally) who moved here with the family only to find that the Mrs. couldn't stand the place and so took the kids and went home again.

Almost all of those marriages have ended in divorce. The point here is make damn sure, 225% sure that your marriage is bullet proof and water tight because this place WILL test your marriage in one form or another.

Alimony is expensive and so is a house to put her in.

The Outlaw

Thanks Outlaw.

My wife has her own business and would like to work for maybe a couple of years more which is not possible anymore when she would move with me to Dubai. I have been in Dubai numerous times with my current employer so I know what you are talking about ;-)

I didn't apply yet so I have to gather first some more information.

How long does it normally take from submitting the application online until getting invited for a interview?

Why not look on the other side of the runway at flydubai? I know this is an ek F/O thread but a bit of info never hurts. Might not be a shiny 777/380 but a shiny 737 isn't too shabby either. At least no jetlag, home every day, good money, quick upgrade and the rosters aren't that bad as most make it seem to be.

Upgrade is around 2 years, EK stafftravel (low prio so be warned) and generally quite good conditions too. Plus actual 42 days of leave too. Soon IATA Z-fares so more options to travel other that being 'forced' to use EK. (with all due respect)

I seem to be saving quite a bit more than my buddy at EK with exactly the same family/spending composition. Although I rarely see him in Dubai and I've got 84hrs (busy month!) in March with 15 days off. Never flown so much in my career as I did here but equally I've never been home so much as here. I actually do most of the school runs myself and see the kids/family a lot.

If you want bigger and flashy go EK. But flydubai isn't a bad option either. Just saying. Now waiting to be shot down...

MikeHoncho,

Outlaw is correct. A move like this can be challenging for all the family. Be sure you are all definitely on the same page.

Keep in mind, shiny jets and maybe more money, are fleeting; family is, hopefully, forever. You will never be glad to look back and feel you traded experiencing your kids childhood for this career.

Just my humble opinion.

Thanks for the great info guys.
I will be checking out FlyDubai as well.

When you polish it evry jet is shiny when you want it to be :8

I can't see the point in leaving an EU loco to join Fly Dubai, but if you want to go long haul and have a peek around the world, then EK will give you that. Like the others said, everything in DXB is "testing", from the bureaucracy (like you'd have to do creating a new life anywhere), the driving and the costs. Look closely intot he schooling issues - the schools are not as good as they make out, and there are an awful lot of scams getting you to register and test the kids for schools (at 500aed per reg and per exam) for non-existent school places. Be wary of any financial "investments" in dxb too.

I am actually not flying in Europe at a LoCo but I am still in the Military flying C17's as PIC and Instructor.
I am looking to make the jump from Military to Civilian which seems not that easy not having a TR on a common Boeing or Airbus type.

I have been in Dubai fairly regularly in my current job so I know a little bit how life could look there. I am also looking at European options but there are not too many.

Great discussion guys, thanks.

The fact of not being home does not surprise me. As I told before, I'm a turboprop guy. Average days off is 8 (this month I surprisingly got 9!!). Normal pattern is 6 days on / 1 off / 5 on / 2 off and so it goes... Minimum landings a day are 3, but it's not that rare to hit the ground 6 times a day. And the heat (it's an ATR for a Brazilian airline) reaches 40ºC in some turnarounds.

Perhaps you don't know Brazil, but we've been facing a very serious economical and political crisis. Local money worths 4 BRL for each USD (and it's been loosing value everyday). Lot's of people unemployed and that means more poverty. Stopping your car on a red light at night means a serious risk of being robbed. How about walking at night with your kid in the streets of your neighborhood? You will be kidnapped. So gou realise how my reality is for now... I'm not saying Dubai os perfect, but my country is far away from a "good" grade.

Regarding Flydubai, does they provide any setup/furnishing allowance?

They pay for the tickets to DXB for you and your family, 4 weeks Hotac (yourself only during training) and a 3500 AED 'pilot relocation support' allowance.

Sorry for the changing course, but still regarding Flydubai, I just think FZ basic salary is quite on the low side, besides the fact that there is no adjustment on the salary nor seniority pay. When was the last pay review? 2 years ago? How will FZ cope with the expansion if, as some people say, resignations are increasing. Maybe they should think in a way to retain pilots. To be honest, I don't think the supposedly cool environment with no tie, cap and jacket is enough. I would be glad to apply if the package improved a little. School costs are increasing, cost of living is increasing, taxes (VAT) are due to be a reality very soon but the package seems to be the same.

Less and Less
 

You will never make as much as your first year here. Next year the VAT is coming. The cost of living here increases 10-12% a year. So to be break even next year you would need a pay raise of 17%. Not going to happen. Kids on an FO salary is a hard slog. Schooling is far from free. I understand it looks like a lot of $, and in fact it is. It just does not get you far here when you have kids. Used car and furniture is a must. You will not save $ here with more than two kids on an FO salary. The Provident fund aside. But you must stay here for 5 years to get that. Everyone I spoke to with kids, it was 2-3 years before they were break even from the move here. So your first two years are a wash. There are many leaving now who thought this their career airline. My opinion is your health is not worth it. There is a reason why people are leaving, and some without jobs. While the dwindling $ is part of it. Mostly the rostering and T&C degradation is really why people are going. That and the utter contempt EK has towards its pilot group. "If you don't like it leave.", is a true story, and that precisely sums up how you will be treated. EK is currently short about 20% on their pilots. They plan on hiring enough to cover attrition and some of the new aircraft. Meaning they will be even shorter next year. Worse rostering and leave. You are not entering into a place that is going to get better any time soon. All this IMHO.

Simply put... Very expensive. I have three children. My FO pay packet has been diminishing quicker every year longer I have been here, go figure! We live simply. Very little take away's or eating out. We shop as cheap as possible. Our children do minimal sports outside of school. We have one car only, no boats, motorbikes or any other toys. School fees are climbing at a much greater rate then the allowances provided! As a new joiner there are many hidden costs, UAE id cards for instance that are not covered for your family. Letter translations, typing etc. Licences, phones etc. The 45k helps with the cash flow but it will disappear very rapidly.
I personally still enjoy the flying although the hours are getting out of control. I think management have forgotten its not a domestic airline! I have a very supportive family but the strain is showing on the wife, understandably. The kids regularly ask when I'm going to be home? Reason I left the last airline!
I don't regret the move but every year I do wonder how many more I actually have in me here.
Not saying don't come, in fact we need you but if you are happy and have family around you I would consider carefully the move.
Good luck all.

4000x20%=800
Are you saying EK is undermanned by 800 pilots?

Umm, well with many pilots well over 900 hours and some as much as 1150, take 20% hours off that lot and what do you have, a sensible hour number.

Not to mention lack of leave availability and 110 block hours in a month being the new norm

800 Is a bit over but it's not crazy over:

4,000 pilots are each flying a min of 10 hours/month too many. That's 40,000 hours/month. 40,000 hours requires 470 pilot flying 85 hours/month.

I'd estimate that each of those 4,000 pilots are at least 7 days short of leave. Taking the company's lead of each leave day being worth 2.5 hours, that means 70,000 hours short/year. 70,000 hours requires 82 pilots flying 850 hours a year.

If you add on a few for training, sickness etc. I'd say we're at least 600 pilots short. That's 15%. Wonder how much of that saving was spent paying TCAS a bonus?

20%?
 

Fair enough if you arrive at a different number. But to get the hours down to 75-80 and get it so people are actually receiving meaningful leave. (Not working a full months roster then being sent on leave.) Useful leave not forced in 7 day blocks, then 20% is my number. If you want to throw in credit for sims, ground school, distant learning and vacation then I think it goes up more. Flying 90 house a month on the sunny side is one thing, but flying the entire back of the clock 4-10 times a month then yes the schedules need to be closer to 70 hours for safety and long term health.

For the record, its a max of 78hrs we should be rostered in a 31 day month. That's what they promised when they gave the pay cut way back when. Any more and they are still stealing. The company is about to make over $US 2 BILLION. Its about time they stop stealing from our pay packets.

Don

A semi government entity cannot steal, everything belongs to them anyway, you included!

Thanks Gloie, I feel special now.

They stole when the put the overtime up from 78 to 92, and it has continued from there.

Cost of living:

Be very careful. What looks ok today is below par tomorrow.
The blokes from the southern hemisphere, be it SA or BZ, will find a better life in the pit, no doubt. But then we are not talking cost!

If we talk cost, my honest conviction is, that as for the moment EK is just barely covering the daily cost for a FO with a wife that does not work. That is if you live a quiet life without hobbies.

If you add kids, then you will go backwards, as the money simply does not cover a life an average pilot expects. (examples of a simple life are to be found above).

Even as a captain I struggle to make ends meet. With three kids i've had to pay for the first year of school for each of them. EK only pays from 4 years old, fine some might say then don't send them to school until they are covered by EK. The school then steps in and says sorry sir we cannot offer a you a place for your child unless he goes to school for the first year which EK doesn't cover. If you like me with three kids that will leave you 40 000 a year out of pocket per child. That adds up to 120000 for all three kids over a 5year period.
The money EK offers might look good, but if you factor in all the extras required just for day to day living then it is way below par. Dubai is extremely expensive on even the most frugal lifestyle.

With a general analysis and my dodgy mathematical skills, something doesn't add up. Here in Sydney, with a wife and 2 kids, I'm forking out 90k Oz a year on all the things Emirates covers in Dubai: mortgage, tax, school fees, extra car, utilities/rates, some insurances and the like. Granted there likely is some top-up for a better school over there, but I still can't see how you'd blow most of your FO cash? Sydney is exorbitant these days, and a check on cost of living websites puts Dubai on a par for groceries/grog/eating out. I'm not judging anyone here. Horses for courses and all that, but I can't reconcile how you could spend 2500-3000 Oz per week.

Getting flogged, losing leave and pay not matching inflation aside, I'm just curious as all the blokes leaving my workplace have financial benefits number 1 on their list.

500g of butter at Carrefour UAE, AU$11,50
20Mbit/s Internet in UAE (Etisalat): AU$132 /month
Soccer (once a week) for kids, AU$900 per term (3 terms per year)

Should I continue?

I will have a go at explaining the type of costs a joining FO can expect. I have been here a while now and with a family, I can remember having almost nothing left at the end of every month on FO pay when I joined.

Remember that this is known average prices and if anyone has major differences then feel free to list them.. The purpose of posting this is to try to help new joiners to get a real understanding that the salary looks attractive but it is tight when you subtract living costs in Dubai.

Average monthly expenditure.............

All prices are UAE Dirhams (AED)

All quotes are estimates as I am not going to look up specific numbers (CBA)

Elife TV and Internet 600 (basic package)

Mobile phone bill self and family with data 650 includes phone purchase

Fuel for car (includes school runs) 500

Education fee (1 child) 2000 (most have at least 2 children) = 4000

Schools are always needing a cheque for XYZ activity or trip 500 (2 kids) = 1000

Medical benefits family 400

Provident scheme payment 2500

Food is always @500 per trip to a supermarket me that is around every 3 days as food does not last long here, even in the fridge. 500x10 (30 days in a month) = 5000

Car maintenance (2 x service annually minimum including parts and labour on a car averaging 7 years old) 10k to 15k so average it at 12k or per month 1000. There is still always an expense, even on your brand new car. Tyres need changing every 3 years and will cost you over 2500 min.

Monthly trip to ACE hardware as something always needs repairing on the house 700

Car and home contents insurance pm 300

Monthly clothing replacement (incl school uniforms) and shoes etc bill 4 people 600

If you are an FO then you will most likely be paying off a car loan, intrest free to the company for around a (75k loan) and the rest with intrest from a bank over 4 years. Monthly repayment @ 3000 (150k car / 4 years = 37,500 / 12) = 3125


600
650
500
4000
1000
400
2500
5000
1000
700
300
600
3125

Above Total = 20,375 AED


The list is not exhaustive and now let's say you do go out for lunch just once a week with your loved one = 300 x 4 = 1200

If you drink alcohol and socialise at home and purchase your booze from the local liquor shops then you will be 150 incl tax for the cheapest 2 bottles of wine. 150 pw x 4 = 600. ( If you are not spending 150 pw on booze then you have a soda problem).

Should you decide to go out to dinner only once a month and have a bottle of wine with the meal then a cheap night out is 600

1200
600
600

Above total = 2400 (optional expenses but everyone needs a coffee out at least)

20,375
+
2,400

22,775 GRAND TOTAL, without hobbies or otherwise like family trips.

Converting to current exchange rates, a minimalistic lifestyle, 2 children, having lunch once a week out with your wife and maybe going out once a month for dinner. It includes my best guess for average prices from my head without checking exact amounts. Remember that no holidays, family trips for days out or hobbies are included in the list. To me this is my best approximation of how much your expenses would be in your first 4 years to come fly the shiny jets. The totals at the bottom do not include any form of saving, this is just a very average lifestyle in Dubai during the first 4 years.

AUD 8,200pm
US 6,091pm
UK 4,400pm
EUR. 5,496pm

Great post Jack. Sobering reading. Thanks very much.

Jack is correct.
Also remember, just because you moved to Dubai doesn't necessarily mean you don't have financial responsibilities back home.
Placing tenants in your house can help with repayments for your home loan, but you will have expenses back home that need to be addressed also.

The only F/Os I know that save money are those with the ones that have a wife who works.

Some excellent figures, the only thing we found dramatically different was the school fees. No, our kids didn't go to Gems World Academy either. :8 Depending on what school your children attend or where they can get a seat, what grades/year they are in (in the lower years - FS2-Year 6, EK covers considerably less yet some schools charge the same no matter what year/grade your child is in), and whether or not they take the bus, the fees can vary dramatically. I remember when we first came here our school fees were well over 40,000 dhs per year with two kids in school at that time.
With that said, if you have kids, you might want to research exactly what school you would like your children to go to, and what the actual costs are going to be...provided they can get a seat there. Good luck!

I lived a while ago over the bay in lovely Doha, did fly for their lovely airline over there(if you find sarkasm, you may keep it ;-) ).

I was a captain on one of their widebody fleets, same pattern, barely never at "home" in Doha(which is in fact a bonus if you are single, but not good for a family father and husband).
I think costs of living in Doha (at that time) have been lower then in DXB, even there are less things to do(and spend your money on).

BUT - even on a captains salary, there was not really that much money remaining - if you lock your family in the house maybe yes, otherwise, not really.

Life in the ME is expensive, if you buy books or DVD's in the Virgin store, some dress or other non arab made stuff, all is expensive. Often twice as what you would pay in shops in Europe.
Then there are the extra costs for school(uniform, sometimes books, registering fee, etc.) which are not paid by the company. Normally they just pay for the annual school fee(seems to be the same in EK).
Normally you need a club membership for your family, gyms at the company facilities are lousy, pools hot and barely cleaned, which makes again up to 5000 USD/year/family. Depending how "fancy" it has to be. But you want something with a big inddor pool or a cooled outdoor pool(otherwise you swim in a 40°C soup over the lovely summer), and that is usually not cheap.

THEN you want to bring them most likely out for eating every now and then, and there you can really spend a sh**load of money on(I was surprised how much one of this nice restaurants in front of this bloddy "music" fountain is costing. Shocking.(Have been there on one of my last rotations with my current, european, operator. Doing a layover. And one of the FA's told us that we HAVE to see that place.... Well, I have seen enough[and paid enough]).
Sure, then there are lots of cheaper place where a pilot would went to. At least that's what I did after that "fountain incident". But if you are anyway barely never there and then go out with your wife it should be something nice...

And we could go on - if you are not there because they always keep you flying your family would most likely to have a life and not sitting locked up at home. And everything comes with a big pricetag down there.

If you have still a life(e.g. flat, house,insurance...) back in your homecountry it will cost you as well a bit. For a European(Western) usually this means a good amount of money spent there. I had all of above and at the end there is not much remaining of a captains salary, I can imagine (or better, I can't) how to make a decent living on a FO's salary(talking of a man with family and kid(s) not a kid enjoying the ME of course).

I must say I do not (and never will) regret saying goodby to that shiny(and fake) ME world.
I earn now much much less but have a life, have time with my family. Much more then I ever had down there. Plus I know I always have legal means against my employer in case ever something is going seriously wrong.
Below the line there is nearly as much money remaing as it did on my much better paid job down there. As a bonus I live where I want and see a nice landscape if I look out of the window.

Especially for UAE/Dubai consider as well - they will implement the VAT very soon(I think I read somewhere 10%) plus earlier or later there will be as well income tax. And it is not sure if they(EK) will really increase the salary. After all they need to earn the money first before they can spend it. Dubai is more or less broke, so not much money can be pumped into the airline, not like the much richer brothers in the neighbourhood.

If you have been a Captain before plan to sit on the right seat for a while, I think 5 years will be a realistic minimum. But it could be much longer as well.

As a South American you have one bonus - the earned money in the UAE is much more worth back home then in comparison for someone from Western Europe. Or Africa(I flew with some guys back then and with this money they earned in QR they have been like small kings back in their african home country - farm, tons of workers, etc.). I instead repaid the loan for my small flat back home, and that was it.

Consider well what you want to do and how long. Make yourself aware that commiting to one of this airlines is a long term commitment. Especially as a FO. Otherwise it will just cost you money and a lot of stress.
If you never have been to the ME before consider having a trip over there and think if you really could stand that sand, dust, traffic, unfriendly people, heat, high prices, poor building quality,... for a lot of years, not just for a week of holidays(whoever would go there for holidays, but that's a personal choice).