A380 with less than 700 airbus hours
 

Seeing that they are moving A330 guys with less than 700h total time on airbus (yes! the only airbus that some of these guys have flown is the A330 in EK), instead of moving those that have more than 2000h just shows how desperate they are and how someone just f&©ked up the lives of those who did A340 ccq this last year. If only these A340 ccq's had been done in the right and fair way, they could have less people resigning in the next months.

Does 'Daber' and managment know that they have guys with less than 700 airbus hours flying their queen, when just a year ago the requirement for A380 was >2500h? Shocking! Some of these guys either have flown Boeing all their life or regional jets, before joining the 'night-turns' fleet.

And yet, those fleet ladies who are in charged of assigning A340 ccq´s and A380 transfers are not responsible for the mess they have created.

A lot of anger amongst A340 guys.

when I started on a Boeing I had zero hours on Boeings, then a few years later I flew a 330 and I also had zero hours on Airbuses

In reply to Bacon's post ....

Having flown 744, 330 then 777, the transition back onto the Boeing was pretty easy. I couldn't imagine the transition being as easy the other way around.

I am however becoming old, slow and tired.

yeah, know the feeling!

re 744, I recall young FO's in the RHS straight out of flight school. On the line, they did everything, including taxi; with marshallers at remote stands on the cargo apron, I even let them park. They were a sharp bunch on the whole.

Re aircraft generally; rememeber Bill Pegg on the Bristol Brabazon (who remembers that machine ?!)--" I just fly the cockpit and the rest follows ".
747, 380, Cessna 150--an aircraft is an aircraft. ( so long as the attitude and the ability is there :cool: )

Dear FL3
 

I hate to be the guy that calls someone out on the forum here, but here it goes anyway.

FL3: Seeing as how you've just done your CCQ last year, I would have to imagine that you joined EK some time in 2014. Therefore, as you obviously have been on PPRUNE you would have known the issues when you joined. When you joined there were threads about the 5 year FO's that were near their upgrade on the 330 and then transferred to the 380 whereby required to gain the 2500 hours and thus became 8+ year FO's through no fault of their own. There were also 330 Fo's being bypassed transition to the relatively new policy of direct entry 380 FO's. All of these issues and more would have well been clearly explained throughout PPRUNE and I would imagine you chose to ignore them all. Now however, now that you are being directly affected by the very same BS that you chose to ignore, you are joining the ranks of those before you that tried to warn your younger self.


Forgive if I am wrong...

Spot on TIMING,Again and again, a 1000 times, PPrune pilots and others are explaining why not to come into this mess but it seems that, still, pilots are joining the force. It is just beyond imagination.....:D:D:D:D

Agreed, there's valid complaints about the incompetence routinely shown by the drones at the bouncy castle, and then there's people grasping at straws to try and generate some rabble rousing. Need a fresh bale FL3...?

I am not complaining and spreading anger nor saying pilots are not able to fly the fatbus.
Just surprised that one of "the safest" airlines, when recruiting require >2500 airbus hours for the fatbus and for then they take guys with around 700 airbus hours...and then get surprised that extra training is needed...

T&G, I joined 2013. I forgive you.:)

And the one year DEC's will go on the 380 as well

FL3 it looks like you are now saying that guys with less than 700hrs Airbus are not safe!! :ugh: Sour grapes old chap!!!

8 year 340 Capts. screwed...again...

And here's a new one for those same guys, leave being denied to protect "tentative" class dates for 380 transfer...

They seem determined to mess this place up.

There are people joining on the 777 this month with their entire previous experience having been in the right seat of an ATR.

Both of them?
These guys got a nice deal. Despite all the warnings here, they got a fast track to the 380.
How are the other three DEC's doing?

Seniority aside, this move means less training and less cost for EK. The CCQ guys will have to do one (?) more year before they transfer to the whale.
Hardly worth complaining about.

Xiamen, I'm assuming you aren't on that fleet if one more year doesn't seem worth complaining about and that you care nothing for equity and fairness toward fellow pilots. Training costs? They had no issue trying to put 777 guys through an initial course on the 380 when there were plenty of 330 guys who could be trained in half the time at twice the success rate. Plus Its all internal, just one dept billing another for a 1 week ccq to the 340, all the money stays within EK. Classic example of why this pilot group will always be screwed.

You all joined an airline without unions. You all knew this.
Keep your feelings out of this.
Look at cost and "downtime" of pilots involved, then it makes sense.
Even the 777 to 380 transfer is smart if it is easier to recruit pilots for the 777 than the 330.

You are the guys telling us all how horrible the 330 is, so why are you surprised?

This is weird man, Its up to the airline, but I got 4000 hours on a A340 as a captain, but they are not taking DEC's for the A380 and they are taking FO's of A330 with only 700 hours?

I had a friend in United, in like 2 years, they moved him from an A320 to the B747. I really don't get this logic.

Yes they are. I can give you the staff numbers and you see with your own eyes. Many of them haven't even done 1 year with EK.

FL3, stop whining!
you just got screwed like everybody in Emirates, take it like a man, you should have believed what people say on PPRUNE, welcome to the club.

The OMA does state that all time done with Emirates is considered hard time. It seems they are right. It doesn't seem to trigger an early parole in all cases though.

How fleets are manages
 

1 min rq acc om/a

For 330 and 777

4000 total incl 2000 on 55t

For 380

4000 total and 2000 prefe 330 or other wide body

The majority of the a380 fo does not have any prev wide body expietence

Min rq for fleet transfer

700 EK 330/340 fleet
That has changed a year ago because it was 700 EK quad hr which means acc OM/a in the benefit to move 777 guys to 380

Now those 320 737 guys without previous widbody expietence are overtaking the ex 330/340 guys for the left seat because of the delayed fleet transfer
So that means 3000 EK split half half between 330/340 and 380 has less value than 320 plus 2000hr 380

Make your own judgment on the loyalty

Can somebody please translate? :rolleyes:

I vote that WB1900 be the designated writer for this years contractual pay change. :uhoh:

Harry

Loyalty ? None here!
Key point to remember , " operational requirements ", fleet can do whatever they deem nessasary to man the fleets. Hence non MFF crew going onto the 380 now.

I was thinking that if EK is really short of experienced pilots, they could dangle the A380 in front of outside guys with no Airbus time as a way to attract people over.

Jammedstab , direct entry on the A380 may attract some pilots BUT stop others to apply... :confused:
I am one of those , one of the main reason I am not considering to apply for Emirates is because you can not be sure on which type you will be flying and the only type I would be interested to fly ( at EK ) is the B777
I don't want to fly the A380 :=
So you see we are all different and , as I keep saying to my wife , size doesn't matter :ok:

I'm no expert (IANAP), but if any company was externally advertising it's best job I'd start wondering why there was no one inside the company that wanted to take it. Afterall there ought to be plenty of people clamouring to get that job. It's not exactly encouraging!

Taking it to extremes, you never saw BA advertising Concorde piloting jobs externally. BA had whole legions of pilots who'd made it their career goal to fly at BA with the sole aim of flying Concorde. They would do whatever it took to achieve that. And AFAIK in BA that simply meant being extremely good at their jobs.

Its far more basic than the above. Would you want to work for a company that would give a better job to someone outside rather than those that have already joined.
This seems to be the sticking point with many pilots in EK now. They joined on a fleet that was having the good rosters and with commands happening in good time, knowing that others already in the company were being shafted roster wise and had been waiting over 7yrs for a command opportunity. But hey, that ****e was happening to someone else right? Now that some of the less enjoyable flying and rostering practices are heading their way, and commands have slowed, they squeal like a halal pig.
380 rosters/lifestyle might be ok now, but EK history proves it doesn't take too long to change. It never seems to change for the good.

Slash...

Seriously??? Have you not ever heard of "Seniority"??? Maybe not....

You don't get the logic??? In the western world, Seniority rules everything. Like it or not, it is the answer to your lifestyle, roster (bids) etc. It's godly to the westerners... and is the reason one can simply move from a 320 to the 744 as it's the pilots prerogative... not the company's!!! Think about it: A pilot can actually request to move from the 320 to the 744 because he truly wants to fly that airplane at the base he desires for more money (bigger the airplane, bigger the pay check for the same seat). Nothing to do with the restrictions of the company.

Kap

@Kapitanleutnant

You mean in MAJOR western companies (not so many good remaining anymore) everything is ruled by seniority? If so, you are right.

The MAJORITY of western companies does not respect a seniority system even if in place. A lot do not have such a system anymore. All died with some old dinosaurs around 2000(give/take a bit).

Still, I prefer to have non such system in place in Europe where I always may challenge the company(any, as long as in EU Europe based/run) by legal means.

That is not the case in any company in the ME or Asia.

And here we reach the point - WHY would EK not hire DEC directly on an 380(such an ugly beast with a major design flaw - it has to big fuel tanks ;))?

They do what they want. You(the employees) should know above all other guys how airlines are run down there. We need a DEC, lets hire one. No pilot union is stepping on our toes. Nobody will change that, if I would have any desire to go down there, heck, I would go for a DEC position before sitting on a righthand seat for 5-8 years. That's how this kind of companies run and get people, that's how they keep afloat.

That's why there are so many of you down there, oportunities. No major in Europe is hiring anymore(or was ever) DEC's. And then again, that is why so many old guys are not leaving and coming back, because nobody would hire them as Captain on a widebody in Europe.

I don't believe a A380 is harder to fly then any other widebody in the world, maybe taxiing this ugly thing is the biggest challenge. And then again, if you stick to your (tailored) taxicharts it is not rocket sience.

Sorry tomuchtowork but can I ask you a personal question? What are you flying presently and what did you fly in the past?

I guess you understand that in a public forum I do not want to specify to much. But more or less I started medium jet, got command medium jet, went command heavy jet and returned to medium jet flying(and sticked with it).

And 10.000 hours later(mainly airline, all jet - except the SEP/MEP hours of training and for fun later on) here we are...Why?

Just wondering....

So when did the advert change WRT a380 and Airbus time not a min requirement?

Are peeps actually getting on the fatbus without it?

Ahmed,
To light the fire you would need some spark. And that was stolen from this pilot group some time ago. Enjoy your course.

Not sure why you need to keep repeating what you say to your wife but.....

....perhaps in the same manner that the 380 could be used to entice people over, EK could do the same with the 777 for guys keen on that type. Or they can stick with ATR F/O's which is still a long course anyways.

Hah! You may think that now, but just wait until all your wallpaper starts peeling off...

:)

PDR

It's always wound me up that pilots abilites are measured by hours ..
It's BS and for you to suggest that a 700hr 330 driver is any less competent than a 2000 guy is simply madness.
We've all met high hour hopeless cases and low hour aces.
Give me a 700hr enthused, conscientious keen to learn guy every day over a high hour guy who can't be arsed.
It the companies (high level management) fault this mess, not any individuals who are at the coal face.

Ps
Concorde wasn't a popular fleet in BA. Dozens if not hundreds of guys could have flown it from a senior point of view. It was effectively short haul with little variety and very low on allowances compared with the 744.
For every real pilot who was really passionate about it there were a whole bunch of guys who were simply keen to say they flew Concorde because of the ego - and why not...