Korean Air coming to DXB September 23-24th
 

Visit ::: Welcome to Total Aviation Service - TAS ::: for more information.


“Job Opportunity Information Sessions by Korean Air”




Two daily information Sessions will be held on September 23rd and 24th, 2015 InterContinental Dubai - Festival City
Al Amwaj 2 Meeting Room ph: +971 4 701 1111

1st session: 10:00a ~ 13:00p,
2nd session: 16:00p ~ 19:00p

The Session will provide more information on Korean Air, our training and selection program, commuting, and details of our comprehensive and competitive remuneration package.

Why Korean Air?
“No need to relocate residence.” – Korean Air is offering an excellent commuting contract. You and your family can enjoy better lifestyle.

Commuting
“No hassle to buy tickets.” – Every month pilot’s commute travel provided by KAL. The pilot can choose one of 128 cities Korean Air operates from as a base for commuting.
Days off and Annual Leave
All crew members are given 9 consecutive days off per month. Three travelling days are provided additionally. Two days of annual leave (up to 7 days monthly, 24 days yearly) can be combined to those days~9-16 days/mo, at Home!
Almost all of your leave requests are granted, protected and guaranteed.
Contract Term
Five Years, renewable until 65 for Captains, and 55 for First Officers.
Accommodations
5* Star hotels in Seoul and overseas.
Generous Employee Ticket Benefits
Generous travel benefits for the pilot and their family members.

Minimum Requirements:

Captain
Age Limit: less than 60(TR) 55(NTR) years at time of Joining
Recent Flight :
-OnType: within 1 year (2 yr, if current MC Jet) -NonTypeRated (NTR): within 6 mos on Like Type
(1 yr, if current MC Jet).
B744/B777/A380/A330/B737NG:
Total Flight Time: 7000hrs (B737NG 5,000)
Total MultiCrew Jet: 5000hrs (B737NG 4,000) Total PIC MultiCrew Jet: 2,500hrs (B737NG 2,000) On Type: 1,000hrs (PIC, or w/ some FO credit) B777NTR: 1,000hrs (B767/B747-4-8)
A330NTR: 1,000hrs (A319/320/321/340).

First Officer
Age Limit: less than 45 years at time of Joining Total Flight Time: 2,000hrs (B737NG 1,000)
MultiCrew Jet: 1,000hrs Recent Flight :
-On Type: within 1 year (2 yr, if current MC Jet) -NTR: within 6 mos (1 yr, if current MC Jet).
B744/B777/A380/A330/B737NG: On Type: 500hrs
B777NTR: 500hrs (B767/B747-4-8) A330NTR: 500hrs (A319/320/321/340).
Expatriate Pilot Management Team.

::: Welcome to Total Aviation Service - TAS :::

Everyone is coming to Dubai!

What is not mentioned is the pay - not great
Taxes - Korean tax deducted from pay

Pay
 

So what is the pay for a Captain at Korean (commuting)?

T7 about $12.9K, 330 $11.9K, overtime $125-135 / hour over 75 / 70 hrs. Add $700-1000 per diem to those numbers. These numbers from Rishworth.

Confirmed business class when going on duty, economy "upgradable when available" when going off duty.

Any tax paid in Korea is deductible towards tax due in your home country, at least in many countries in Europe.

CP

$12,932.00 per month!

777 - 13k less tax . Unlike China which is 19.5k taxes paid

Have I read it correctly that in getting the assured 11 days off straight per month you actually have to use at least 2 days of annual leave each month to do it. So in essence its 9 days plus travel days.

Yes. You read it wrong. 2 days annual leave per month is extra to 9 days off.

What about pay on the 737?

Guys, I have heard that there is no command upgrade for FO joining KAL, is that right?

Yes, that's right. As an FO on the 737 for example you can upgrade on the 747 as an FO but no command upgrade. I heard it is something to do with the labor law over there.


Gander

23nd of August or September?

That is so far behind the going rate for an experienced wide body captain I'd be surprised if they get any more that tyre kickers.

That salary + 12 continuous days at home every month! In a heartbeat!!!!

737 about $9.4K.

I don't work for Korean, neither am I planning to. Having said that, if I had to chose between Korean or any of the Chinese gigs I would go for the Korean commuting option everyday of the week. From what I hear from guys spending time in China, also outside aviation, it's not really viable to stay for any longer periods of time due to pollution, bad quality hotels in mainland China, lack of good quality food in said hotels, constant delays due to issues with military airspace restrictions etc etc. Then add the recruitment process and astronaut medical checks every year....

Living in most places in Europe and the US, making $13-14K per month before tax and having 11 days off at home is actually not such a bad deal for many. The alternative is living in "tax free" Middle East with skyrocketing costs, 40C for months every year and often getting treated like dirt.

Kamelchaser - I don't think it's that far off the "going rate" for commuting contracts outside China. Ethiopian pays $9000 basic pay for their T7 contractors. Can't imagine Asiana paying their guys much more than that either... Who else, outside China, takes on widebody contractors on commuting contracts? Air Atlanta perhaps, how much do they pay?

CP

The Chinese are catching on to the commuting contracts though. Many of the operators now offer 4 weeks on/4 weeks off for USD13-14k/month on the A320. KAL used to get away with the low pay because of the great commuting schedule but now others have matched or surpassed their schedule while offering more money.

Korean...
 

I worked there for 8 years. Probably THE best commuting contract on the planet, unless you're lucky to be able to get on with one of the Chinese carriers out of Beijing and get based in YVR.

Korean might not pay that well but their equipment is excellent. Extremely high maintenance standards. The training is a bit of a hassle to get through but once you're done, you're left alone.

In the 8 years, I never had my days off violated once. Always got Christmas off. Yes, you have the option of saving your 2 days leave per month and taking 24 somewhere later in the year or you can add them to your blocked days off each month to get 11 days off a month.

Business class travel to and from your base. No hassles.

Sure the pay could always be more but it was a very good gig.

777AV8R, Is it the same for FO expat?

KAL- Expat Co-Pilot
 

The days off etc are the same. I don't believe they're doing any upgrades. Also, there are a number of hiring agencies out there. Be careful. They promise you everything and deliver nothing.

May I ask why you left, if the reasons are not too personal? Not being facetious, genuinely curious.

Retirement, hopefully?

who else is coming to Dubai
 

I wonder who else is coming to Dubai and why only Dubai:ugh:

Heard Ryanair is coming to town for a road show.....

CP

Blood
 

Maybe they smell blood in the water.........

Good question
 

Changes to a tax treaty combined with another opportunity saw a number of us move on. Was it a good move? Not so sure it was although retirement was coming and there were other interests.

Despite all the rumors, KAL remains the best commuting contract around and worth the effort.

AV8R….

One things that I have never been able to get my head around is hearing a few horror stories of KAL here on the prune…. Realizing some of it's nonsense, but generally there's a lot of truth to what's said here. Can you address these for me please:

1. There is/was a scenario where you would get all the way thru training, take your final line check and not pass… and then get terminated.. with few other options since you've already resigned your previous airline, just for failing a check ride?

2. You get reported by your local KAL FO for not following SOP's to the "T" such as not turning on the landing lights in the exact proper by-the-book sequence, thus causing troubles and a visit to the chief's office?

3. FO's who essentially put up a brick wall between them and you (left seater) for the entire 14 hour flight to wherever because you're taking his position?

4. A Korean aviation Fed who fails expats quite routinely and due to this, they get fired from KAL?

5. Astronaut physicals in which they always look for a way to fail you on your medical?

I find it hard to believe some guys wrote this stuff over the years but it has always remained in my head about KAL and to be honest, made me steer clear.

Thanks for answering if you might know.

Kap

US carriers can only hire US pilots. If (like ME3) they could hire worldwide, and offer (say) South Africans, Indians etc. a work permit in the the US, I don't think they would pay as much.

Answers to Questions
 

Here are some answers to the questions as I saw it:

1. Yes. The problem was cultural. Not necessarily theirs, but ours. When a pilot finishes his sim. training, he/she is assumed to know just about everything (I know..but..). Once into line training, the candidate is supposed to assume control (especially if you're already type rated and have held a command prior to come to KAL)and know the whole operation. If you ask a question of your national check pilot early in your training, he will see it as that you don't know anything and mark that down on the training record. That one remark may have been on day 1 of line training. You may be assigned to a couple of different LCPs during your line training. The later LCPs would never utter a positive comment on your training form due to the 'loss of face' of the first LCP you were with. Especially true if the first LCP was quite senior in status. As a result, you go through to the last check ride and find you didn't pass because of the first remark, several weeks ago.
Lesson? Don't ask questions.

2. Yes. KAL has had a terrible safety reputation. After the Guam crash, there was a concerted effort to change the safety culture and get CRM and SOPs into the mainstream. It really worked well. The company began to hire you guys and gals from the aviation university in Seoul. As a result, the culture did change and the problem was that the Expat pilots, who had come from various other airlines, didn't embrace the culture in a positive way. Not their fault. They were doing what was taught of them.

3. The Brick Wall. Yes. I had that experience. Once! I was working with an ex-air force pilot. He was a bit of a trouble maker. I had a very good relationship with the Chief Pilot. I took the step of hauling his ass up to him. It worked and I had no further problems. Maybe I was lucky. The brick wall is there but I've been away for a while and don't know how it exists now.

4. There was a CAA inspector like that when I was there. Had no clue on what he was doing. I was on a check to SFO and he came along. During our layover there was a labor strike by the pilots in Korea. My LCP called me up and asked what we should do as he wasn't part of the union. I told him he essentially was in command.....we left. The 'Fed' didn't want to go. We left him in SFO. I'm not sure if he ever made it back.

5. Medicals: That used to be the case...gawd...show up at 06:00 and go through the testing...and it took all morning. There was a reason my blood pressure went off the clock! I don't believe that is the case any more...maybe for the initial medical however; I think they've relaxed things. It was quite an experience each 6 months. It took about 2 years to actually figure things out.

I hope it helps!

Still a good gig.

The training , once with the Koreans , will humiliate even the most optimistic sole .

The salary is just that. My mate has been on the same amount for last 5 years. No raise . No incriminate. No OT.

Very little english spoken.

Cant think why anyone would consider it unless time off in a block is so important to you.

You can skive uk tax though !

737 roster
 

Can anybody share 737 fleet roster? PM is also ok.

AV8R…

You've pretty much answered YES to each and every scenario I mentioned!!

Some things will just never change I guess….

K

Still a good gig......😂

Thanks for the info. Due to various reasons such as those listed above, I was advised by every single person I spoke with who have advised me against going there.

Even then I was still willing to consider at least applying, for the experience if nothing else... Until the absolute deal breaker was revealed; No upgrades for expats!! I have heard as an FO on the NG that I can't even expect to move to a 777.

Can you confirm that 777AV8R?

As I Understand it....
 

Bravo', I still believe that to be the case. No upgrades. It would be good to talk to one of the Agencies on it. CCL is probably the best if you're going that route.

US carriers do NOT pay $24,000 per month simply just like that. You don't make that on getting hired. Not even half (much, much less in fact).

You'll have to put in hard graft for 20 odd years and have some luck on your side to make that sort of cash with US airlines. Will go out on a whim and say that only a small percentage of folks earn anywhere near that.

These other gigs (china/asia) pay the cash straight off the bat. So it's not really a fair comparison.

APC has all the figures on the pay. To earn $24,000 you'll have to put in about 20 years to get close to that. Not knocking it - just saying it how it is. US airlines and pay just don't stack up. But then a lot of other things they have do (eg benefits, union etc).

For American Airlines 12 year captain which is the top of the scale:

Year A380 747 767-400 777-200 777-300 A330 787 A350 767- B757-200 B767-300 A319 A320 A321 MD80 B737 E190
12 299 299 285 285 285 285 285 285 242 242 242 228 228 228 228 228 149

The guarantee is 71 hours per month. No flight pay in the U.S. just your hourly pay plus per diem and overtime,
plus duty and trip rigs, and night, and international pay. So for a 777 captain, $285.00 per hour x's 71 = $20,235 per month.
The thing in the U.S. is you don't have to work as hard for the money!!


BDD

American Airlines
Total: 11357
Active: 10157
Furloughed: 1200
Most junior captain hired: MIA 737 Nov 98

Mandatory retirements:
2013 - 58
2014 - 83
2015 - 112
2016 - 135
2017 - 190
2018 - 300
2019 - 418
2020 - 535
2021 - 580
2022 - 647
2023 - 704
2024 - 717
2025 - 713
2026 - 705
2027 - 595
2028 - 512
2029 - 474
2030 - 414
2031 - 434
2032 - 385
2033 - 368

Source - airlinepilotcentral.com

Once you're working there it's not much different from other asian airline jobs and better than most. The commuting works well. Don't expect the pay to change anytime soon. Down route hotels are adequate but not 5 star.


There is no Korean tax paid in respect of your salary. The only Korean tax deducted is on the per deims you are paid while in Korea which is negligible. So study the Dual Taxation Agreement your country has with Korea to avoid unpleasant surprises. Hint: the wording in the "ship or aircraft operated in international traffic" paragraph is crucial.

Agree with 777AV8R, had seven years there with only three schedule changes! Quite a few pilots fail the training phase, I think this has more to do with attitude than ability, if you go there just learn everything their way, never say in "Airline XXX we used to do it this way", once through training they leave you alone, always had Business Class coming and going, you nominate your requested days off in advance so generally you can be around for Birthdays, Weddings, Graduations etc. Still one of the best commuting contracts going, some guys have been there over twenty years.

Any informed opinions on the best agency to apply through? TAS, CCL, Rishworth, etc?

There's probably a thread on the Far East forum but that's so far to walk...