Informative thread ATCO, agree with it all except "Rocket Surgery" ???

WherewasI and Emma...all clear regarding the type,in case there is unplanned acft change...got it thanks.

I do love it when FlyDubai is asked to mention their aircraft type after having forgotten to on initial call up.

oops - white knight, that'd be a B 77 Whiskey, not triple 7 - according to ICAO.

Nice try Fack 5 but I've never heard it called a B77 on the air waves... Whatever ICAO states. I'm just passing on WHAT I HEAR!

Too difficult to understand?

Too difficult to understand? Possibly, but you'd be the better judge of your capacity. I expect it probably is judging by your response. Anyway nothing to get your knickers in a bunch about but maybe a read of the books might be in order for you if you want to throw stones. Have a Pimms and lemonade while you're at it old boy!

I've never flown with an ELP6 who cannot understand the RT. Perhaps your command style brings out something other than the ideal? If they're gritting their teeth you're doing it wrong.

A bit close to the bone old fellow? I was merely stating what I hear from our esteemed colleagues on 124.9

If you want to talk about my command style on a public forum then make sure you are correct about it otherwise it is libelous. Like me saying you have a small.....



....brain for example

And to all lost Qataries and etihad: 121.5 Mhz seems to be your company frequency in middle east region, especially Oman Airspace!Every flight I do I hear at LEAST 2-3 QTR or Eti Flights with lost or forgotten freqs...

When will it stop?

One last thing and then I'll go sit quietly in the corner. Please use your full callsign in comms that involve a clearance/freq change or the like. If you just use the numbers, it'll mess us all up sometime. Over the last few weeks, I've had quite a few exchanges that haven't even involved any part of the callsign.

One word, maybe two: professionalism and pride. Let's all up our games.

ATCO, had a run in with one of your mates last night about this callsign business. You are correct.......how about a bit of professionalism and pride from that side of the mic as well.

My comms is better than average and yup. heaven forbid I should slip up and forget to mention my callsign in the heat of the moment.....but ffs, it was like I had pissed in his flower garden.

The AOI reads "state your call sign, type, and passing level on initial contact." It does not state "ONLY state your call sign, type, and passing level." The Dubai ATIS CLEARLY states "Report information X on first contact with arrival." It looks like, as with every major airport in the world, you are expected to state the current ATIS on first contact with OMDB arrival in addition to the items listed in the AOI. Not surprisingly every aircraft that checks on with just passing level and type is queried as to whether or not they have the current ATIS. This omission just adds one more exchange to a busy frequency.

The different ICAO definitions for a 777 are:
777 200/ER - 772
777 200LR/Freighter- 77L
777-300 - 773
777 300ER- 77W

Lets not forget our colleagues are worked to the limit crossing as many as 12 time zones and flying upwards of 90 hours plus ground duties month in and month out. Many have gone years with no more than 30 days of leave, often broken up into 7 days or less with 90 hours of flying built around the leave. Effectively making leave worthless. When people are chronically overworked they tend to make small mistakes. Lets not jump all over each other for being human from time to time.

HI Kenny

We're slowly introducing the concepts inherent in CRM to our boys through human factors courses but the older guys usually haven't been to one of the courses and have come through pretty brutal training regimes to get to where they are today and don't suffer fools easily. All I can say is that it's such a pleasure to work with pilots and controllers who obviously love their work and try to ensure that their professionalism is exhibited on the frequency. You're going to always have the bad apples but let's talk to these guys and model good behaviour on the frequency.

Look forward to hearing from you all soon.

I find that the tension and stress felt by the controllers at UAE ACC when it's busy, can be very noticeable of the R/T. The rate of speech and tone that is used by the controller, are often good indicators. The staffing issues and low morale at SZC that are mentioned on other threads, give an insight into a workplace that seems to have more than its fair share of problems. We as pilots based in the UAE, know only too well that you as controllers are dealing with ever growing levels of traffic in a small area of airspace.

The airwaves are most certainly NOT the place to discuss the finer points of airmanship or RT etiquette. To our controller friends, if a pilot is not using their full callsign then just say 'Use your full callsign'. That is a short and clear message which should be easily understood. There is no need to say any more nor raise your voice as I have heard previously on the odd occasion. If someone really pisses you off then follow it up and report it but please don't enter into highly heated discussions on the R/T. If the offender is a UAE operator that is inbound, then ask the pilot to give you or your superior a quick call when they have landed. If it's a choice between a quick call to resolve an issue or starting a paperwork exercise, I suspect pilots and controllers would both probably prefer the phone call.

I have a lot of respect and admiration for the guys and girls that I speak to at DXB and also at UAE ACC. The standard of controlling is high in a demanding environment. We at EK are working harder than ever in a company environment that generates many challenges as well. Often when we are arriving into DXB we are very tired and work hard to ensure that we are operating to the high standard that we have personal pride in maintaining. We are only human and can make errors and welcome when errors are pointed out. Please do so in a concise and composed manner and it will be very much appreciated. :ok:

Sometimes we don't do ourselves any favours though...
Was coming back from Europe one night last week and one of my colleagues 2000' above was obviously trying his best to overtake us despite the fact that we were already at CI300, he was most put out when the UAE controller kept them high and his EAT was 5 mins later than ours despite the fact that he was slightly in front.
Started questioning the controller who politely replied, if you want to understand how things work here please come and pay us a visit...
Seems that he was kind of "sin binned" as he ended up in the hold for way longer than his original EAT.