I would need to check the 30hr assumption, but if that is true then every pilot can fly either a ULR return, 2 European flights Or 4 local India or 10 otherwise flights nearby in the Gulf.

With a train set this big and the fuel cost so low, CI 400 is not the issue. Having pilots at the helm is perhaps the real problem and by creating 30hrs x 3500 = 105,000 would make a BIG difference to the business plan (and just pizz off the Americans more :O). 105,000 hours is more than an average airliners useable life, this plan might have some truth in the practice (rumour).

J

I would love to have a CI of 400. If you get tight on fuel, you at least can go to 0 and save some real fuel. Where I work we are so close to 0 already that going to 0 saves less than 100 kg and that is on a fairly long flight.

900 hrs with parking brake released will always be 900 hrs, no matter if CI0 or CI400+.

The unpaid part of the job is on the ground when the parking break is on, so no short cuts etc will have you working less days for the same reward. Get the 900 in the bank and for the rest of the time wonder why the others fly faster, shorter routes and leave the parking brake on when on stand for 20 mins due ATC.

J

Jeez...

You guys must think you're the centre of the EK universe! CI400 to make the pilots produce more - seriously???

BOF

And what would be your reason for it, BOF?

K

Thing is, 92 hours in a 31 day month pays for your basic salary, right? So the matter of how many miles you cover in those 92 hours matters, right? Speed counts.

You'll spend 20-45 minutes in the Desdi/Bubin hold no matter what, right? So speed matters, because whether you spend those after you've been in cruise for 20-25 minutes less counts.

We're short on crews, so having crews time out 30-40 hours less counts, because they can fly them another 30-40 hours.

Also, I think factoring will go away for sure soon and I think this panic move shows that they're desperate to make up for the resulting crew shortage.

Now that the NOTAM has been out for a few days, has anyone actually flown anywhere close to OFP speeds associated with CI400? B777/A380.

Considering its close to .860 on the B777, turbulence and ATC will surely be slowing things down constantly. Looking at the airborne times for some Europe-DXB flights (FRA/AMS etc.) I don't see any difference over the past few days.

On the other hand, there are plenty of operators using CI80-150 on the B777 now that the fuel price has come down. Surely even EK knows that CI400 just isnt going to happen when everyone else is cruising around at significantly slower speeds

CI400 also changes your cruise level potentially as the FMC is prioritising time a lot more than optimum level.

CI 400 is somewhere in the region M0.85 to M0.86, the same as a B747 or A380 cruises at.
Has been .853 most flights near optimum.
It won't break the jet or kill your pax.
It might be smoother at M0.82 if you're in some turb, guess that's up to you.

Apart from tending to reduce descent speed from 325kt (bit close to the pole when in VNAV PTH for this chicken) I don't have a problem with it. If they get another flight per year out of me, who cares? Still same workload for me. Otherwise, I get home 10 mins earlier every sector!

Seems stupid though, those 10 mins (or 20 for two pilots) are costing about 2000 kg of fuel, or around $100 per minute.
Expensive pilots, I'd almost do >92 hours for $6000 an hour!!

CI400
 

Has anyone else noticed the co-notam has changed with 'P-EKA' as the originator? That, to me, is STC himself??

Avid

Not particularly intelligent thinking, in my opinion.

1) If they get one more trip from you per year, they will not pay you more. This means that per sector you are earning less and by extension, you do not feel that your services are worth what you are being paid now. Do you feel that you are being overpaid now? I do not. I feel like I am earning the absolute minimum that I am willing to work here for (of course that is perfect for EK, it's what they want). That includes the major inconvenience of having to live in Dubai, a long way from home, both physically and culturally - as for most of us.

2) You may not be quite as happy to plough through that fuel if the outcome is that next year PS comes around and the excuse for getting zilch (there will be a few to choose from, of course) is that fuel costs have skyrocketed. Only pilots and some (hopefully most) engineers will understand exactly why and we're not a majority...

My theory is to fly my 900 hours in the absolute minimum days possible. We all saw the WSJ article, the truths in it mean that I have no reason to give these people any more than my absolute minimum - they give me nothing more than theirs.

Flight times have become much more manageable with regards to the scheduled block. There will be a lot less what I call "charity time" for the company as flying up to the sceduled block becomes less likely.

And for those who are going to back their argument up by saying they will readjust the block times and then reduce the CI later on, you're far from any logic - that will only put them amongst the worst 'on time performing' airlines.

OTP will never be less than or equal priority to you :=

A number of possibilities:

1. They keep the CI400 to allow a more accurate reporting time to reflect reality. The CI400 stays until fully EASA compliant, including FTLs, which I understand are less restrictive for most reporting time windows. Then reduce CI, and keep the more realistic reporting time and original schedule.

2. Keep CI400 until we recruit a LOT more pilots, and we find more augmenting, then CI reduces.

3. Keep CI400 while fuel prices are low, squeeze current crews for hours, reassess in a year or two.

4. Emirates want to improve their punctuality record. It's finally been revealed that a dispatcher's "5 mins for bags Captain" is actually on the dog-year scale.

I'm between 1 and 4.

170to5

"That includes the major inconvenience of living in Dubai, a long way from home, both physically and culturally..."

Sorry to spoil the party, but weren't you informed before you joined EK that this job was based in Dubai and was not a commuting contract?

Complaining about increasing working hours, lack of leave and other detrimental changes to our lifestyle is one thing. Complaining about something you were well aware of before you joined is quite another.

Harry

Of course I knew that, my point is that living here means I expect compensation that makes it worth it! In my opinion, there is a point on the salary/t&c slippage where it's no longer worth it...that point is close or has passed for quite a few people, it seems...

I'm guessing he was told, Harry.

I suspect he is expressing the idea that moving to Dubai to live was an acceptable decision based on the contractual obligations promised. Living here becomes much less acceptable, however, when the increasing working hours and lack of leave increases the isolation from home.

Many years ago when common sense made a regular appearance you were paid for an expatriate job a little more in order to compensate for being away from the motherland be that UK, US, Aus etc. The idealised version of that would be the famed Cathay 'A' scale of yore. This concept appears to have disappeared latterly. I might add that the EK pilot package does not compare favourably with legacy carriers in the 'developed' world. Although EK pays accommodation etc that is easily offset e.g. in the UK by the cost of income tax, NI and pension contribution.

Seems the CI400 is the final, last ditch effort by EK to keep the fleet flying… before some of the fleet is grounded.

Sorry Harry, I will call you on this one, ( I normally agree with your posts). The contract I signed and the rosters it allowed me when I joined 9 years ago, did no way resemble what I had when I left. That is the problem, the continuing degrading of T and C. Harry, if your are happy to accept that, well done, others are not.
As you know, I was not one.

Could all those articles I've been reading in Flight International over the past 10 years about pilot shortage be finally coming true?!

There's no such thing as a bottomless pit and EK are starting to find that out. Stick around guys, we deserve to see the outcome

Harry is happy here. He won't tell you directly but he'll brag about his investments and his friends (which we all have plenty).

It is a good point though, Harry. My contract isn't commuting, but it's not suicide either. It's been morphed into the ladder in the previous years.

If ever it's come across that I've bragged about investments then shame on me. Please tell me where and I'll remove it. That was never the intention and one that would hardly be appropriate anyway. I'm not a financial guru and have never claimed to be, merely following the basics of regular saving and living within your means. As for friends, no doubt the same number as everyone else although seeing less and less of them over the last few years. Which brings us nicely back on track.

I'm not agreeing that the T&C's we endure are by any means seen as ideal and I don't think I've ever said that. I will, however, admit to being content with my current lifestyle but this is in no way a direct reflection of the worsening conditions we've all experienced of late. My point is that Dubai is where we have to live and work. Those that try to make a real go of it with happy wife, kids at good schools, good villa location etc. have adapted far quicker and easier than those that don't. Some never do. Achieving this 15 years ago was easy, now less so and very much down to luck. For those that try to commute it's a nightmare and merely feeds the anger and resentment that so many hold. Add to this a reduction of leave to 30 days, forced leave, full flights and only 1 ALT, lack of credit for ground duties during a full months work and restricted days off and it's easy to see why the frustration builds. The list goes on. If you don't view Dubai as 'home' while you're employed here, forget it.

Unfortunately, whether we like to admit it or not, the overall package we have is still a pretty good one and while people still apply, the conditions will not improve. Only the recruitment team and senior managers will know how many and from what backgrounds are applying. That will be the giveaway for this years pay review. Having said that, how many of us would forgo this years pay rise for a return to a regular and guaranteed 80 hour month? Most, if not all i'd imagine.

We are all fighting to achieve the same goal. Work hard but get acceptable rosters to do so with sufficient rest. Receive a remuneration that's the going rate for professional pilots working for the 'Number 1 brand airline'. Finally, and perhaps most important of all, expect to be treated by management as they themselves would like to be treated, fairly and with respect.

I don't think that's too much to ask, do you?

Harry

Neither do most of us, but you said yourself:

and that seems to be an oxymoron!

Good points Harry. Just one thing. If you have boys, when they turn 19, the can no longer live in Dubai. Then people may be forced to 'commute' just to see their families, and the happy family story suddenly changes very quickly.

What was the old cost Index?

Between 25 and 40...

CI 400
 

No more short cuts please, spread the message around. Let's be wise in telling them how we are the missing link in this equation. Flying near the barber pole is sheer madness, just to cater for pilot shortage?.Some goon has come up with this bright idea to kiss up his boss.:ugh: Otherwise let's all brace, brace for the upcoming salary review.

So the company is solving an apparent pilot shortage with shorter flying times...?

But forgets to look at the consequences this "cost saving structure" has on:

• - safety ( almost fatigued pilots, will be now really fatigued, but not according to the FRMS model, that is NOT taking into account the exposure to higher noise levels)
  • Fatigue after work in noise - an epidemiological survey study and three quasi-experimental field studies Kjellberg A, Muhr P, Skoldstrom B - Noise Health
  • http://www.google.ae/url?sa=t&rct=j&...92189499,d.d2s
• - The EK brand, from being the greenest suddenly you are the brownest
• - etc...

Interesting, and well thought of, short term solution!

Has anyone posed the question at a Recurrent wash-up about this loony Cost index policy?? Interested to hear answers!

Personally habibis, I reduce to .85 (777) and save more fuel for eventualities that may occur (holding, wx etc..) No need for extra uplift these days :ok: Short sectors maybe different as i haven't done any yet to play around with the FMS CI.

Its mighty fine sailing past most other planes at .85, or If I need .86 :p:p

SyB :zzz::zzz:

The cost index is completely irrelevant to fuel uplift. Fly 400, as before, if you need fuel for holding, wx etc. then bloody take it. Your the captain. What's the difference on your decision for fuel CI400 or CI 20?

Apparently according to rumour control in the college of knowledge, this was meant to come out only for African flights in a bid to improve OTP, however the "needful" was done at some point and it got transmitted to everyone costing thousands and thousands.

Not claiming this is a definitive answer but if it is true then I think someone responsible won't be sticking around for the Prophet Cher. :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Justanexample

I'd probably be more worried about the effects of shift work for things like diabetes than noise related - You might be clutching at straws but i'll do some checking
The FRMS Model EK use is a "One size fits all" so I'd also be wary of that. :\

Gentlemen,

Could the answer to the unexplained CI400 be that it is designed to get people back to Dubai quicker to allow them to go onto their next duty that much sooner and not make the following day a day off or rest? There could be a lot of smoke and mirrors around the few flights that this is actually meant to be targeting which will change the roster times and make people work the following day?

Beware rushing, this increase in fuel burn and a throw away of the departure from a destination for gate occupation in DXB is a shambles. Something is going on and the reason that you are not being told is because the result is not good news for you.

900 hrs will always be 900 hrs no matter how fast you go, fly safe.

J

No, basically what happened was that little Timmy threw a hissy fit during a meeting...

OTP targets..............and we prob wont even hit them with CI400 :8

As we all, who fly em, know. The best place to make up time is on the ground!

True to form our push back and pull forward, at a snails pace, took over 15mins from brakes release, then another 10 mins wait while another jet did the same thing.

CI400 is not going to help with numpty stuff like that.

Bottom line. With the closure of Yeman airspace the Eastern Africa flights were running close to an hour late. A proposal was made to speed up THOSE flights only. That is until commercial got involved and said, wow if you can do that with those flights, why not all flights? And of course who won that argument? Just wait a week or two until the ASRs top out and fuel used figures come in. CI400 will be a distant memory and we will be back to not leaving a few minutes early without approval from VPNC.

I freaking hope not. Cost index 999 next please. Less time in the tube the better.

Ek is short of pilots. Many fo's gone. With ci 400 they are generallyreducing the crew costs due to overtime of many pilots (many pilots called out on days off and many rostered overtime!) AND by the same time reducing your flight time for each sector by 10-15 min in average. They now can plan you on a KWI or DOH or DMM,MCT in addition. Easy guessing.

We will only really know the depth of any FO shortage when 2 captains are rostered together, if on is RHS qualified. I am and have recently had quite a number of XX days in a row and not been called..