EK pilot number
 

I am mid table. Since November 1 I have moved up 38 numbers. Since then we have hired 95 more people to the list. Thats a net gain of 57 pilots. I am sure a few people below me have left as well. But lets just presume that there are none. That means 40% of all new hires are replacing pilots who have left. How many airframes have arrived since November 1 and how many pilots do we staff per airplane at this wonderfully organised company?

That looks to me like a 3% attrition rate which has to be acceptable to an Airline. With the cyclical nature of hiring and retiring I think the normal range can go up to 10% during a retirement bulge.

Why are all obsessed with the right attrition rate numbers... 2% 3% 15%...
Maxed out on flying hrs...no leave for 17 months...there is not enough pilots. simple

Nail on the head by little. I think that if our numbers increased by 10% (around 360) immediately, we'd still be short by about 200. And that's only if everyone stops leaving.

I've gone up nearly 200 numbers since the last time I checked, though I don't know when that was, so that's of limited value.

From the BBC regarding the crash of German Wings. Does this sound familiar?

"The newspaper reported that the aviation authority, the Luftfahrtbundesamt (LBA), was told in November to sort out problems including a lack of staff....."

and in the article, with EK being so multinational, the following must be taken very seriously.

"In light of investigators believing co-pilot Andreas Lubitz crashed the plane deliberately, the way airline crew are vetted has come under scrutiny."

J

Off thread a little but check the fine print of the DL email we have all just received regarding Information Assets Acceptable Use Policy. Specifically Clause 6.

factual #s
 

I am also in the middle and moved 12 numbers from Feb 1, 15 to Mar 31, 15.
6 a month. The most junior on same dates was number 3760 on SL moved to 3724. Thus 36 places in two months. hence 18 a month. At that rate 216 a year. 5.75%.
new joiners are 5-8 a week. (20) a few weeks of 12 and a few weeks of 3-4.
this includes the Cadets that slip in from time to time. SL list has 3772 today. net gain 12. / 2= 6 a month. total pilots has not been above 3776.

draw your own conclusions.

Told in wash up recently the seniority lists is not correct. It contains people that have left many moons ago, and is in no means a respectable means of trying to obtain a reasonable calculation of real pilots on the seniority list. Us having a published seniority list that is in no means correct as told by management.

Draw your own conclusions.

They will never post the real seniority list anyway! How can they if the scenario is changing every month ... USA EU and other reality are calling ppl back and ready to be profitable for the next 10-15 years ...

Everyone I know who's left recently has been taken off the list straight away.

2 pilots are still on the senority list even though they left 6 and 8 months ago.
However there are others that when they leave they are taken off the SL almost immediately. If you can figure out the differation please post it here.

I was told the same thing at a useless wash up. Along with lies that the unmentionable, Qatar and the Chinese airlines are all working 90hrs+ stop wineing and be grateful as the other airlines don't give the benefits like the provident scheme, length of sick pay and wait for it..... 42 days holiday a year 😂😂 (most of the captains in the room fell off their chairs at this point).

I'm probably 2/5ths from the top of the FO seniority list and since September 2014 when the (inaccurate list) had approx 3690 pilots I've recorded the total pilots in the company rise and fall (everyone who joins seems to be put in the list???) and looks like we've gained 80 people. In the same time my seniority is up 65 places and through recording the list every couple of weeks I've noticed people below taken off the list (when they have left) The interesting thing is the list is inaccurate as people who have left several years ago are still on the list...... so that means the seniority list paints a worse picture for crewing 🙈

Solution: huge pay rise and profit share (which will not impact much the company budget) to attract more valuable candidates...then when numbers are here...more leave,more decent pay in line with our responsibilitites.

I disagree, that's only part of the solution, it's now about lifestyle - no one can maintain 92 hrs of long haul for more than 5 yrs, it takes its toll!!!

The simplest way to fix this shortage is to offer overseas basings.:ok:

JFK, LHR and SYD….

Pilot shortage SOLVED at EK.

K

How to fix this...
 

In my humble opinion, there is only one to way to fix the problem.

Let's first have a look at what the problem actually is: it is a lack of lifestyle. I don't hear anybody complaining about the money we get. Yes, we don't get enough for the amount of flying we are doing, sure enough, but if we would work a normal 80 hours roster with the current pay, nearly everybody would be happy or at least content.

The solution to this problem looks like a catch 22: we are suffering from these conditions because we don't have enough manpower, but we can't find enough people and people are leaving because we are suffering from these conditions.

The best way to overcome this problem is a massive change in basic conditions: we go back to 80 hrs/month for the basic pay, no restrictions on rostering and while we are at it, get rid of the flight pay and the bid groups... they complicate matters for no good reason whatsoever. Also, we introduce the old credit for duties again, 2.5 hrs for leave, 3.5 for STBY, minimum 3.5 for flights etc...
These actions would result in no lifestyle change initially, but a good pay rise due to the overtime. It would prevent people from leaving, because the pay at the current levels of work would be really good. It also sends a message as what the company is aiming for: back to 80 hrs contracts. Only this way will we be able to retain people and hire new guys at the same time. As more people will join EK, the overtime would slowly become less, so the money earned per month would come back towards what we are earning now, but this with a normal lifestyle and 80 hrs per month flying. Mission accomplished.

I do realise that this would take at least 2 years to accomplish, probably closer to 4 to get the right amount of crewing in. I also realise that short sighted managers at EK will never go for the long term solution, yet this is in my opinion the ONLY way to handle the current situation.

MR 8

remember there was that quarterly update of STC....

it contained a direct link to him for feed back... Please forward that to him.

I 100% agree.... just one more thing i would ad.... No more condescending talks and threat emails from the middle management....

Assuming they have worked out that there may be a problem.

My take is that they are still working on means and methods of getting even more out of the crew for even less compensation.

Think of their bonuses if they (we) appear to do 100% of the work with only 90% of the crewing level of last year.