By the way...he's not related to me at all.

Ok thanks a lot! You've made my dogs jealous! Enjoy parole. Lucky so and so!

"By the way...he's not related to me at all."


Ahhh...so you must be the new deputy then ?

Yeah, how does that work? I thought all the new labels were to prevent 2 of anything. Now we have 2 DCPA's... Or is one CDPA or CPAD. Whatever, nice to see they're maintaining their firm grasp of the non essentials.

Captain Chip****

Why Captain? You are whining in the right seat are you? Commenting that DEC would not exist anymore due to "qualified" Fo's... Like you?

You are a frustrated fool to believe your own nonsense. You were writing that you will leave the pit and EK Feb 14. But presently still whining in the left seat with no contingency plan available. You call yourself a Captain boy?

Do you really think that in Asia you would fly regulated minimum hours. You better concentrate on non HR publicity and non Internet commercials. Get your facts straight. They will let you fly the max possible! Maybe if you weren't that shortsighted you wouldn't be in the pit at all...

Good morning all. Could someone please tell me how to block another member's posts? VMT

You mean like this?

"This message is hidden because Marsellus is on your ignore list."

Look under "User CP" at the left side of the PPRUNE menu bar.

Thanks for that, just added same name to my ignore list......:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Ok this is my first ever post on pprune and I do so with some trepidation and fear of being blasted for being a troll etc. Anyway hopefully all goes well and if possible I would like to ask if we could keep this to hard facts and figures.

I am personally struggeling to see the issues being raised and there are couple of reasons for this

I currently work for a small(ish) European regional airline. Coming to Emirates as an F/O would put me on more money then captains are making here. I also feel that my monthly outgoings would shrink. Me and my partner spend the equivalent of about 13000Dhs a month on bills. This includes 5000Dhs on a mortgage. I do not see how my bills in Dubai could add up to anywhere near this ammount.
I have seen on here people quoting figures of 5000Dhs-6000dhs a month for food for a family of 4. We currently dont have kids but our food bill for 2 is about 2500dhs a month here in the UK.
I then see the statements about schools. Yes there is state education here but unless you are lucky with schools you are more than likely looking to go private for a good school. I dont know exact numbers but you are therefore looking at potentially 65000dhs a year on schooling and thats with no extra help from my company.
I then read people quoting info about tennis lessons etc for kids costing a lot. Tell me if i'm wrong (preferably in a nice way) but aren't these just costs generally associated with having kids? I would imagine that sort of thing would not be cheap here either.

In terms of flight times and fatigue etc. again things here are not peachy. I am currently away on 5 day trip to then finish late on friday and start again on earlies mon. This is generally my life; what is the equivalent of a 5/2 roster being away at least 3 of those 5 days. We tend to do 4 sector days and personally I find that it is the turnarounds that tire me out the most. When I do get home because my partner works shifts as well more often then not she is at work and I wont see her. I feel that in Dubai at least there would be no pressure on her having to work and so she would be home more when I get back from trips. You also get no support from management and requests for days off being denied.

From a personal point of view I therefore cannot see how my life could not be better in Dubai.
I look forward to the onslaught but hopefully everyone will play nice and maybe stay on topic

Pig
 

Please come and join the party, maybe we will get more than 8 days off in the month or the leave we are contracted for. 91.5 hours a month is so 2012 so cum take the strain and give us a rest. Your partner will enjoy her time in dubai on her own, trying to gain entry to one of the many full beach clubs :ok:

J:E

Flyingpig, sensible post and you bring a perspective that won't be welcomed here. When people say don't come to EK because the garden at their accommodation is too small you know the thread has fallen off a cliff.

FP, came to the pit more than 15 years ago, got my envelope out and did exactly the same numbers as you. I was going to get a pay rise on joining and be golden. My only luxury would be a club membership because I had to be able to fill my downtime but had to give that up because there was no choice.

So what happened? As an FO I had saved only what was in my provident fund. Where had the money gone, still can't work it out! The big question is whether I will have enough money to retire on leaving and the answer is maybe but then I have had a few dodgy property deals because there was no choice.

Probably the one cost I didn't factor into the equation that hurt at the outset was the cost of keeping in touch with my home. I went back occasionally on trips but rarely saw the family, we as a family seemed to spend any leave I had off traipsing around the home country as nomads trying to catch up with friends and family. Eventually I came to resent the time and money it cost, but there was no choice.

The single biggest issue with being an expat for me is having absolutely no choice in where you live. I don't mean a Jumeirah vs Meydan, I mean San Diego vs Minneapolis, actually working close enough to your roots. As your family grows and your family at home ages you struggle to keep up. Eventually you let your roots die or you leave. The accommodation is palatial if you come from an appartment but otherwise rather disappointing but we all made do because there was no choice.

As to the package here, the issue is that it spirals downwards and that some in the leadership seem to want to turn aviation into a 24 hour office job with 2 days off a week. They do not understand from their First Class seat on a vacation why anyone would get tired. This means the rosters are artificially destroyed even though there is no additional benefit or cost to the company but we all made do with it because there was no choice.

The root cause of all of these issues is a disrespectful culture that views employees as liabilities. A vindictive attitude to crew from people that are not in their positions due to innate competence. When anyone tries to make a positive change or raise an issue that costs nothing, they are told directly in these precise words in front of their peers, "if you don't like it, leave" but we all made do because we had no choice.

Note "had" and that is why people have started to leave. I do not regret my time here but I am very disappointed that the culture inside the airline does not match the positive brand portrayed to the outside world. It could easily change to a positive respectful culture, the executive board have that choice.

As a young lad come along and see you may well love it but just remember one thing; you still have a choice.

Also, if you decide to start a family soon after you get here be aware that you need to be in the company a certain amount of time before maternity costs are covered AND if your child is born with anything congenital then insurance won't cover it.

Then - and I mean this quite sincerely - why don't you just join, and make your life better? Why listen to people who are actually living there and working for EK, when you've got it all figured out from Europe?

Things are in a state at EK that they have never been before, with people leaving, and not joining. If I was on the outside considering joining, this would alarm me, and I would try and understand why. The reasons have been given ad infinitum on this forum. If you choose to believe your own calculations, that is indeed your own choice, and one you will have to live with. But as ekwhistleblower's excellent post says: at this point you still have a choice.

You will not have the choice to leave so easily, once there. Not unless you relish the 45K, 5 yr bond. And you will certainly have no freedom to make most choices after joining.

Flying Pig:

It's valid of course what you say but the Airline industry in the middle east is currently expanding so fast that none of the major players can find sufficient, quality, crew. Why would you choose to go to the company that from these threads clearly is probably among the worst to work for, I believe its because the marketing department could sell poo as chocolate. One guide that I find fairly accurate is the less said about an Airline on this website, the better it is, you always get some guys that want to put you off. In the case of Emirates people are obviously fatigued and operating in a forever deteriorating environment.

My advice is to look at all the Asian and Middle east options before you choose.

Not much is said on here about an airline in Abu Dabi Doo.

They must be a terrific bunch to work for :} :hmm: :ugh:

halas

New joiners
 

Guys it seems we will have some relief with our rosters......
it seems that 300 new joiners from the subcontinent are ready......
They only need to check if the logbooks are real or not......

Speedy,

That is a brilliant picture, never a truer word.

I haven't got it figured out. That's why I am on here. The only thing I have figured out in my relatively short time in this career is that no one has it figured out. Name any airline in the world and you could find a group of pilots who would tell you not to come near it. Is there anywhere that could be considered the perfect airline - I'm not so sure any more. I have friends in airlines that I would think were great and they too are desperate to get out.


I am here trying to put my view point across of what I believe I see sitting on this side of the fence. I am trying to establish all the facts and that is why I am looking at great detail as to what many on the inside are saying. However what I will say is that here in Blighty things are also expensive, with little pay, no time off, max hours and management that don't care.


Is it therefore not just a case of finding somewhere that ticks more of the boxes rather than all of the boxes?

flyingpig1987,

Which airlines are you referring to? Since you're from Europe, I can't imagine working for one of the legacy Airlines could be such a bad gig i.e British Airways, Lufthansa, Air France, KLM, Swiss etc. Working for them compared to this region is night and day apart. That I'm willing to bet a big sum on.

Flying Pig:

If I was considering coming to this region right now then my order of preferred employer would be:
1. The UAE flag
2. Qatar
3. Saudia
4.5.6. Turkish/Emirates/Fly Dubai (joint 4th to 6th)

Well being from Britain I hear many stories coming from BA. However I treat these with the same reservation as all stories I hear of differing airlines. However I do believe a certain number of orange bus flyers who got in to BA found themselves wanting to head back after a few years. I'm also sure that BA as with all other airlines is not what is used to be.

fp

As with everything, working here depends on where you come from, as with everything...if you were born and raised on the streets of Mumbai, for example, then moving to Nigeria and working as a Bellboy would pretty much be a dream come true. I would not enjoy it as much.

In other words...

A slap in the face is better than a kick in the b**ls...it is not, however, better than a free lunch.

Get my drift?

How many Pilots have left/Leaving Emirates
 

Flying pig - presume if you mean short career you were born in 1987. If so everywhere is hard work these days. However, in the UK you might think pay is low, not enough time off but compared to other places e.g some places in Europe life is a luxury and management do care.
In my humble experience PIlots in general do have a tendency to moan, if your stuck in a tube for fourteen hours there is plenty of time to put the world right and throw out a few un substantiated rumors just for a laugh. However, there is no doubt that EK crews are over worked because of the nature of their job. They are also a captive audience in dxb. If EK want to fix it a complete shift change is required which means numbers of crews

One of the big advantages of working for airlines in the UK is that you can voice opinions and raise objections without concern. Can't do that here.
You also have a free healthcare system which on the whole works well and is actually interested in your health rather than how deep your pockets are.
Same goes for the education system which, despite its detractors, is amongst the best in the world whereas the UAE system is near the bottom.
Finally, don't be fooled by the "tax free" salary - you will get robbed by day to day living costs.
I'm not sure a real value can be put on freedom of speech - millions have died for it.
You can make a life here but it requires massive patience, adaptability and a great sense of humour.
Good luck in your decision - you seem like a reasonable chap, I'm sure you'll be fine :-)

Perhaps if our glorious leaders did some of the below, EK might achieve two things.

7 Management Lessons From the Guy Who Saved Continental

1 Make large profits to help pay off Dubai's financial hole and make us one of the best paid airlines going.
2 Save cash by not having to replace the people who have left due to the p**s poor management style and crap endured here on a daily basis and make EK the airline of choice again.
Rocket science it isn't.

You have to understand that over here we have more than their fair share of villains, thugs and hoodlums masquerading as leaders.

When considering becoming an expat pilot over here, you are probably thinking what being here can do for you?. Management attitude is the same. It is what they can get out of it, and its every man for himself.

Ultimately being and expat is sc*b labour, either flying or management. Who is actually concerned about what happens here in 10 years?

From a recent "managers" pilots meeting, attrition rate is 3.5% and the recruitment is doing fine. Life is great, 92 hours is the norm and everybody seems to be happy......:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::}:}:}:}:}:}

Living in that river in Egypt.....

Can someone explain to me the nature of fatigue if one flies 92 hours long haul every month? Isn't that three to four ultra long flights per month? There is definitely something that I am missing here. I am sure I'll get a couple of responses of "what planet are you living on" and the like....I apologize but bare with me explaining that, I really feel I'm missing something or misunderstand how the hours are calculated.

Thank you all.

Yes that would be true. Except we don't fly just long haul. For some, no long hauls at all.

Along with the long flights our schedules include shorter layover destinations and regional type turnarounds. Much of this work includes back side of the clock timings. Check in at 0100 and finish at 1300 sort of timing.

Our monthly schedules are limited not just by hours but we also have the number of days off per month artificially restricted.

And there is minimum recovery time between flights.

If you think that 4 ULRs per month would be easy you are in for a shock.

900 hours per year in LoCo short-haul may be physically demanding, sleep-wise it's a somewhat assured regularity.

The other major factor out here is chronic stress. In your home country you go home and are in your comfort zone. As an expat (especially in certain countries/cultures) you never really get away from work. You have all the 'annoyances' of a country that is very different from your own (traffic, fear culture, corruption etc) and this slowly builds up in the background without you realising it is affecting you. Marriages that do well at home easily break up. You my find yourself angry with family, neighbours and work. Most people are here for selfish reasons and will do anything to protect their own little bubble... especially your 'leaders' at work. It is most definitely not a nice 'atmosphere' to be involved in.

And it IS getting much worse by the day. It's rat-eat-rat. Period.

Gander Radio, if you are having a problem understanding how 92 hrs pm and ULRs totally upset your bio rhythms. I would suggest you try going day, night, night, day, none stop for a week. Then extrapolate that feeling by a factor of 48.

And TJ nobody can fault you for that

And TJ go for it and enjoy. But it will get you down eventually, the trick is to pick when.

Good advice from SOPS here TJ!

And given the events of the last week, let's not talk about the EK "threat based" sick policy.

Anyone with a UK EASA licence put their B777 rating on the licence?
Been offered a job somewhere I actually would like to live, but really I need to put the jet on my UK EASA licence, anyone got any experience with this? I've heard 500 hours on type minimum!?
Any info appreciated!

ICAO to EASA
 

Just put an GCAA Business TR on my EASA ticket. You need 500 hrs on the type and an LST.