Reap what you sow....EK
 

Was called on my days off from EK pre ops to " do them a favour". They had their first and last favour out of me when I first joined and they wouldn't help me when I requested my end of the bargain.

Maybe they will get the message that they have to treat us better if they want a " Favour" in the future. Sadly this will be delayed by those who will turn in their days off and take it in the A#* in order to please a master that will hold you in contempt.

DON'T GIVE UP YOUR DAYS OFF TO HELP THESE C:*$S! WORK TOWARDS A GREATER GOOD!

J :E

Reap what you sow....EK
 

If You are unhappy in your job, grow a pair and vote with your feet!

BTW, I have no affiliation with EK

Mate, we have been truly bent over a barrel at Monarch (remember that scene in Pulp Fiction), and yet people are still coming in on days off. I just don't get it.

Good luck

C4, why should we all uproot our families, leave our friends and disrupt our careers just because of shortsighted and greedy management that can't keep or attract crew. I'm Reasonably happy in my job with emirates but that doesn't mean I have to do them favours when they won't give me my leave.
I'm sick of people bringing up that old nugget ' if you don't like it leave it' , perhaps another option is to try and force a change. One way is to not offer up your days off for a few shillings and a 'thank you captain' from an overworked crew controller that won't remember your name when he hangs up the phone.

Don't give up your off days for favours that will never be returned or appreciated. Don't sell them your hard earned leave because they can't plan and want to keep crewing levels threadbare, and are now desperate. The value of your leave days is far more than they're paying, so stop giving it back to them.

@ C4

You have no affiliation to EK, yet you sound like The management here!! I will pick my battles and will vote with my feet when the time is right as I owe EK no loyalty. In the mean time I will happily hang the company by its own BS policy.


@ Plane_Sailing, you have hit the nail on the head :ok:

J :E

I was called this morning, refused, and wasn't bothered again. Perhaps there were enough 'yes' men.

They send me a text and then a phone call. Didn't event answer. No way will give them my days off.

If you help them then you actually become part of the problem. We don't want to mask what is going on with rosterering.

I totally agree with you Jidder!

@ LR3

Don't sit on the fence now fella :p

LR 3. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

Lr3
Your next beer is on me :D

I take great pride in answering the phone and saying "no". Never been an issue.

I've been called 4 times now in the last 6 weeks. Each time, "NO", politely but firmly, does the trick.

I can only hope that after the last few years of abuse meted out to the crews by EK, that ALL ek pilots do the same. Don't fly on your days off, don't help out.

The only way anything will change is when a/c are parked and flights cancelled.

LR3.

+1:D:D

Next time please don't hold back and tell us how you really feel!!

:ok::ok:

And guys, please don't come up with the lame argument that you "made them pay dearly, because you traded in a goodie, or days off on a better date"!

By that you simply shoved down a bitter pill to a fellow pilot who had lesser bargaining chips.

Say no or be a hypocrite.

Got a call yesterday for a "small trip" as well but was happy to tell he guy I had other plans so couldn't help - the beer tastes really good that night! :E

Sheiken & Glo,

You would think the guys would see sense but there are guys out there who are happy to give up their days off :ugh: They need to realise they are only hurting themselves in the long run.:=

J:E

A well known UK holiday airline pays captains 7 times the EK rate for working a day off. If one managed to blag the infamous 'double - flex' then that would be 14 times. The 'double' kicks in if the duty starts ultra early or goes over midnight. I am sure the bean counters or 'management' would love to scrap it but it reflects the seriousness of sacrificing a day off. All fyi.

The call-out ( if you get it ) and OT rates at EK are not worth the effort. The OT rate is less than the regular rate of a senior captain. It's a joke. Don't do it.

Got a call a few days back to do a favor and go to the far east. No, thanks. Checked later and the flight was done by somebody who had gotten in from a Europe trip just after midnight, so combining a rest day. He probably got home at 2am, was called early evening and left at midnight for another trip. What is wrong with these people???

As usual........pilots are the worst enemies of pilots........:ugh::ugh:

Yellow fever perhaps....

The business needs to make money but that is now at the behest of my business, which is me. I entered a contract which gets changed with zero input for me and in a direction that has never been favourable to me. If I decide to stick to my original contract and agreements under which I joined and tell my manager so, I would have been resigned immediately.

The current EK business model seems to be to make money at any cost and that has now exceeded the limits of my cost. If I burnt out staying here, EK won’t care less for I am just another number and cost base affecting profits. But my business (me) is about honouring the original contract and maintaining a healthy work balance lifestyle. The ultimate aim of my business is to make sure I have enough of a lifestyle after I stop work and that lifestyle includes health and financial stability. EK does not care about that part of my business as that would involve planning ahead and to tell you the truth, they have demonstrated a lack of forward vision and planning ahead, with the only exception of pursuing ever greater profits. However regarding my future business plans, they don’t care less and never will.

So I was told if I don’t like it then leave. So I am and now counting down the weeks. I have a few interviews lined up but no job to go to and so for now I plan to enjoy some self-imposed leave. Looks like all will be ok because my leaving is of no consequence to the EK business, actually by leaving they will save even more money and make even more profit now and that is evidently how they do the business nowadays. :ok:

Also got a call the other day to give up three easy trips for 418.
The carrot was that i would get an extra day off before my leave.

I thanked them for their consideration and told him that if crewing really gave a sh!t i would have got the day off with my bid.
Also why would i want to do an extra 5 hours work for only the flying pay.
I get a rest day after my 23:50 return anyway! :hmm:

I am a lazy pilot.

halas

If I get called off some standby's early in the month crew management will always take some longer trips off me at the end of the month to keep my overtime low....every airline I have been with does that.....it's not just isolated with your airline.

Also, never do crew management (or whatever you call them at EK) any favours.

People always seem to think that if they do crew management a favour then CM will owe them one......not so.

Crew Management in any airline has no memory to recall goodwill....you can't bank favours with them, so don't try.
Enjoy your days off instead.


Eternity.

Because we don't get hourly pay, for the most part, they throw pennies at us for working on a day off. Top T777 pay at one legacy is $270/hr. If they call you on a day off, pay then is $540/hr. So using some logic here (in short supply here), disregarding our hourly pittance let's do some maths. Using an average salary of 45,000/92hrs=489/hr. Double that to 978/hr and you can see what might be what you deserve, flying on a day off. Doing let's say a turn somewhere (5 hrs of flying) and you deserve 5x978=4890AED......minimum. All daydreaming of course. But that is your worth for disrupting you life and rest. Anything less and you are selling yourself like a street.........:uhoh:

All true except we don't really have 'leave' anymore; it is just guaranteed days off. The value of my leave is nothing since they stopped giving any credit for it.

An excerpt from a Flightglobal article on pilot shortage.

ANALYSIS: That pilot shortage – will it prove to be another mirage?


...But looking at the industry as a whole, Moxham explains the airline accountants’ perspective on investment in skilled people for the future: “It is easy to justify an aircraft order: airframes are an asset. Pilots are seen as a liability. Yet you need both.” Accountants who genuinely think like this are being short-sighted, he suggests: “Failure to invest in the skills supply will mean increasing costs for them. Good crew will become scarce and able to demand high salaries again, and finances will go into a spiral.”...

The rest of the article is here:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...nother-409320/

You may need to be registered with the site.

Low cost carrier in Oz pays narrow body captains approx AED2000 for working on a day off. And that was from 2008 rates!!

767200,
Actually makes me sad to read that. It is so VERY simple, but that concept is totally lost here and elsewhere. It seems that many managers (not leaders) try to do the very opposite. Not through their words, but through their actions. If they are talking the talk, to have credibility, they need to walk the walk. And again, very sadly, it is just not happening.

The really sad story is, that whilst a pilot may be worth AED 5000 for working on a day off, plenty in EK are evidently willing to do it for much, much less. Since that's the case, it would be utterly foolish of management to offer anything more, than what people are willing to work for. If that figure is AED 600, well, don't blame management - blame your colleagues for selling themselves cheap.

Pilots have always been a pilot's worst enemy. Self-Sponsored training, self-sponsored type-rating, P2F, one-man companies, ME3 labour practices, airlines operating without a unionised workforce; the list is long, almost endless.

They sent me SMS one day and called me two times the following days to ask for "a little favor"... Yeah right :mad: what a nice feeling to say no, made me enjoy my off days even more. Say NO and help our cause, say yes and help them! Easy, ain't it?

Before calling a pilot on their few days 'free of flying', have scheduling considered using the pilots roaming the 3rd floor at HQ?

CK

Well done to those that are saying no. And you're all correct about crewing not remembering when you helped them out. Most of us are pushing 90 odd hours per month, are tired (if not fatigued) and now they want you to voluntarily expose yourself (fnarr) to more potential errors by flying in this state, only to be hauled over the coals, demoted to FO or sacked if you make a mistake. Guys, look after yourselves and Families and politely say no.

Am I correct in thinking...crew shortage?

I heard now they are using guys on SBU for short ME turn arounds! Didn't believe it and I checked. It's true.

Sbulr...has happened to me not too long ago...so it is true

Ladies & gents,

The numbers - to add perspective.

Since 2009 we have taken a 15% pay cut and an 8,5% pay raise (the 3% annual inflation increase - is alone, grossly unjust in light of UAE inflation)

So...since 2009, we are down 6.5% on salary.

If you go 'fly' on a day off - YOU are underwriting that policy. You are essentially saying the policy of pay reductions is just and I subscribe to that policy.

Do not do it. It's is only when planes are parked that the demand/supply curve will change.

By saying no - you are exercising the only tool we have.

They do not repay favors...you owe them nothing...you owe our profession more.

f.

That's a good point, don't take it out on crew control, they have a difficult task trying to make the system work with insufficient numbers - it's not their fault.

Be professional and polite when answering them!