The reasons to avoid the Sandpit continue to pile up...

PG

Don't shoot the messenger! (or she who wrote the warning)
 

Dr FR is, I believe, doing the right thing by "advising" of the implications of the this type of testing and the subsequent risks that we are exposed to. I do not for one minute believe she agrees with these new "measures". She is doing a favour by warning us. and we should be grateful. The GCAA have decided against the principles of pretty much all other authorities that they know much better than far more qualified expects.

There are individuals who will show elevated blood results in one, two or all three of these tests even with moderate alcohol intake and others who can drink like a fish and their results will be normal. Until you take these tests you won't know how you fare.

GA, the very small Dr in EGHQ, sold this concept to the GCAA. They bought it. And now they will perfect it. He also introduced the BMI concept. Self promotion at its best.

The point is be aware of the implications of alcohol consumption in even moderate amounts. This has nothing to do with 12hrs before duty. This is about weeks/months of alcohol consumption that you can be tested for at any time on a whim.

Why don't Cathy, BA, SA, SQ, AA and others not have these same rules? Because they are not from the Middle East so don't have religious beliefs included in their thought process.

With that over...anyone for a cold one?

I've been told low-carb diet attempts to maintain BMI can cause screwy readings in the liver function tests as well...and medically inclined folks here care to confirm or correct me?

Absolutely. The local population, of course, doesn't partake 😳 so we shouldn't either.

More of this kind of news can't be good for recruitment. Now they only need 450 locals to become airline qualified pilots for next year; shouldn't be a problem. 🍻

Chewthecrude, it is of course absolutely right that we are advised of any new requirements that the GCAA come up with. As ever, it is more the tone of the e-mail that is the problem. It could certainly have been worded better with fewer threats.

At least the GCAA have a nice program if you voluntarily ask for assistance.

You will be driven to a rehab program out in Al Awir by friendly staff who will then give you a nice 30 day program to clean up.

It is stated in the email that "Alcohol Screening requires a detailed medical history and examination, questionnaire and laboratory tests."

The email also includes the statement that: “Emirates is also required to randomly screen 20% of operating crew for drugs and alcohol.”

So are these two ‘screenings’ the same ?

E.g.

1. Will the Emirates pre-flight / post-flight ‘random screening’ now require “a detailed medical history and examination, and questionnaire and laboratory test” (based upon a blood sample) ? (that'll certainly play havoc with on-time departures and / or duty times!), OR:
2. Is it that Emirates ’random screening’ will now require that people are 'randomly' selected to visit with an AME - at a time outside of a 'Flight Duty Period' - for a blood sample to be taken, in order to be assessed for CGT, MCV, CDT? (aside that any such requirement would then constitute as a ‘Duty’ and therein is not something that could be done on ones 'DayOff' and, as such, Rostering / Crewing would have to plan & allow for this 'randomness'), OR:
3. Will Emirates ’random screening’ continue ‘as is’…. albeit with ‘enhanced screening’ (for CGT, MCV, CDT) only occurring for the following (as listed) situations:
   • Screening as part of age 60 medical certification.
   • As part of the medical evaluation as determined by the AME during the regulatory medical examination (e.g. in cases of cardiac arrhythmia, insomnia, chronic headache, depression/anxiety, liver disease and cases of uncontrolled hypertension/diabetes or increased suspicion especially in those with a family history of addiction).
   • Referral following an aviation incident or work related issue.
   • 3rd party notifications for suspected drug or alcohol misuse.

So which is it?

And just what are the limits they have decided to set for each of CGT, MCV, CDT ?

I agree with Chewy above. I have had to see Dr FR personally and I have "personally" nothing but good things to say about her professionalism and understanding. Dr Fiona does care and is a much better choice than some of the other "small" minded people around in the clinic.

I think that this mandate is a clear case for those who have to worry, either about drinking too much generally or drinking too near to a medical or flight.

If you think that this affects you then the correct medicine for you is to take a look at your own habits and see if you are affecting your own bodys balance.

Alcohol might give you brief relief but it is not curing any of the problems that you might be "over doing it for".

Do I drink, YES, have I drunk too much before, YES, do I think I should drink less, YES, will I medically feel better if I drink less, YES, is this mandate a bad idea, NO.

If you disagree with it and fear that this is an infringement on your personal rights then please, don't fly my family if you are anywhere nearing the the unacceptable levels of "self control".

Happy Christmas all

jack

ASMA Meeting
 

Sorry Jack but I think your'e full of schidt on this one. How do you know that the only people that need to worry are those that drink too much or too near a flight? Do you have anymore knowledge of these tests than the rest of us? The letter from EK even warns about a positive result and being grounded if tested after a recent vacation with drinking.

It's not going to be easy to explain being grounded(suspended medical) during an interview with another airline.

Moto,

It's a simple answer my friend. IF YOU THINK YOU ARE AT RISK OF GETTING IN THE SCHIDT THEN EASE UP ON THE BOTTLE!! If the results are positive and are not alcohol related, then surely other tests will proove that, ie kidney function etc etc. If alcohol is your concern then that's your doing and no one elses.

jack

oh dear !
there seems to be no shortage of sledgehammers smashing little nuts!

My understanding from reading previous posts, is that these are new GCAA requirements being introduced (effective Jan 01 2015), and would effect ALL PILOTS holding an ICAO licence under the GCAA?

A GCAA PDF detailing the new requirements would be extremely helpful if anyone has access to the relating documents.

The pilot community, (and of course they are always the handful of exceptions), take their profession extremely seriously, and recognise their responsibilities and the trust placed upon them by the travelling public.

I am sure it has always been the case where, under certain circumstances, an individual might come under the microscope as a result of perhaps alcohol/substance related behaviour, and no doubt there has always been a communication channel open to their company for individuals who worry about a colleagues drinking habits.

As a person who has been educated and told the rights, wrongs and dangers when dealing with alcohol all my adolescent/adult life, (admittedly adolescence did, on the rare occasion, take things to an extreme), it would be concerning to me, should the situation arise where a cultural belief system (where the prohibition of alcohol is at its core), would play a role in assessing my drinking habits for example.

For clarification, I am not talking about drinking to excess here !
We all have a professional obligation to help a colleague who is suffering from an over dependency on alcohol for example, and there are many ways to deal with this sensitive issue.

Furthermore; according to the GCAA regulations;
The average line pilot is hit with a mountain of tests during a "routine" medical, and be tested for alcohol abuse when the AME believes the pilot is suffering from depression or anxiety? Am I reading this correctly?

A few things that do concern me (and does increase MY OWN level of anxiety), especially since I am looking after a family and my income is vital to our own welfare;

Question: (individuals suspected of suffering from Depression or Anxiety)
Would a person who is suspected of suffering from depression or anxiety, originating from lands where their respective belief system forbids consumption of alcohol, be tested for alcohol abuse? Would the pilot in question even allow the AME to conduct the above tests, stating that it is unnecessary since "I do not drink alcohol".

Question:
Would an under-perfoming AME, originating from lands where their respective belief system forbids the consumption of alcohol, be completely impartial when determining who should be faced with these tests.


Drinking in moderation IS acceptable,
this moderation does depend on so many factors,
1 pint of Beer for lets say EU, US person versus
1 pint of Beer for someone of lets say Asian background;
what is moderation in each case?

I suggest you avoid using the following words during your next renewal;
buzzed; blasted; canned; destroyed; hooched up; loaded; obliterated; under-the-influence followed by under-the-table; wasted; ankled; Banjaxed; Battered,Befuggered; Bernard Langered; Bladdered,Blasted; Blathered; Bleezin; Blitzed,Blootered; Blottoed; Bluttered; Boogaloo,Brahms & Liszt; Buckled; Burlin; Cabbaged; Chevy Chased; Clobbered; Decimated; Dot Cottoned; Druck-steaming,Drunk as a Lord; Drunk as a skunk; Etched; Fecked; Fleemered; Four to the floor; Gatted; Goosed; Got my beer goggles on; Guttered; Had a couple of shickers; Hammer-blowed,Hammered; Hanging; Having the whirlygigs; Howling; Inebriated; Intoxicated; Jahalered; Jaiked up; Jan'd; Jaxied,Jeremied; Jolly; Kaned; Lagged up; Lamped; Loo la; Locked; plastered; smashed; locked; rubbered; trousered; hammered; langered; half cut; sloshed; smashed; trolleyed; ossified; banjo'd; baloobas; rat arsed; tanked; twisted; scuttered; legless; steamed; buckled; in tatters; in a jock; flamin; off my face; in ribbons; wasted; off my bin; demented; in a hoop; polluted; buckled; in a heap; gee eyed; in a hula-hoop; outta my tree; mouldy; transmoglified; shattered;
and of course last but not least;
TIRED - DO NOT SAY YOU ARE TIRED !
(unless you want to open up a can of worms)


I would echo some of the points made previously;
MOTOJET: "It's not going to be easy to explain being grounded(suspended medical) during an interview with another airline."
It certainly is a point to consider when contemplating a move to the ME.

Jack. I think that the point here is the intrusiveness of this. When I go on leave, I enjoy consuming copious amounts of booze everyday whilst totally relaxing on a beach somewhere, but now have to be wary of this. That is just not right!

CG

From what I understand consuming 4 or 5 units of alcohol a day for a two week period is enough to put you outside the limit for some of these tests. That is only a couple of large glasses of wine or a couple of pints of beer a day which is not what I would call "copious amounts", especially on holiday or at this time of year, or indicative of a problem. I wonder how many office staff (or indeed AMEs) consume more than that on their holidays or days off?

Don't worry Im sure our management will lead by example and subject themselves to the tests themselves. Will they F@*K!!
This is about one culture imposing / dominating itself on another.
4 or five units a day is by no means excessive when on holiday.
If they want to improve safety why do they tolerate people fasting and operating in a safety related capacity????

OMG! What are the Auzzies going to do now? :eek:

I have done a little bit of reading after receiving this email from FR. The impression I get is this new initiative is not designed to highlight those of us that enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with our meal but rather those that misuse alcohol on a regular basis.

For those that consume little or no alcohol then CDT readings will below 1.5% and the threshold for misuse seems to be around the 3.0% mark. 100g-150g of alcohol is required per day to achieve that percentage. That is similar to drinking a bottle of wine or 5 pints of beer or a third of a bottle of sprits daily. Days when no alcohol is consumed will dilute the current CDT level, so intermittent drinking appears to be far less of an issue. CDT levels will be elevated up to 7-14 days from consumption.

I think for the vast majority of us, we have little to worry about.

Screening will be required when....
iv. 3rd party notifications for suspected drug or alcohol misuse.

So if you are concerned that you may have a high CDT level, don't piss anyone off around you as they may become the "Third Party".

halas

Good guestion with regards to 3 Rd party, who exactly is that?

Question for the GCAA should be: what's the added (safety?) benefit of these extra tests?