I'm going to DUBAI for a Job Hunt
 

Dear All

I am a Flight Instructor in the UK with over 2000hrs. Myself and a couple of colleagues have decided to come over to Dubai for a job hunt.
The plan is to visit as many head offices of airlines, Bizjet Operators, and flying schools over a three day period in and around Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Al Ain and RAK.

We are not type rated but happy to pay for a rating if there is a job at the end of it.

The reason for this post is so that I can make a list of people to visit and make appointments with beforehand. I am after contact details of recruitment managers, Chief Pilots, Operations Managers. Anyone who is the right person for Pilot recruitment.

Please PM me with details or post in this thread.
Thanks in advance

MHN

Why not offer to pay for your endorsement and fly for free for a year while you're at it?

Hell....be on call 24/7 and live in the hanger...maybe even pay for some fuel?

You are the are the poster boy for all that is wrong with aviation today.

Good way to start your career as a PFTer. Maybe you should just wait for a picket line you can cross. That will put you in a big shiny jet pronto.

Outlaw. Great post. You are so right. May be he is willing to work as a Cabin Crew on his off day.

Why not read the original post before you start going on about pay to fly...

I'm going out there to SEARCH for jobs not BUY one.

Happy to pay for the cost of type rating as long as there is bonded job at the end of it. Where did I say I want to buy hours??

If you have useful information for me, I'd be most grateful.

thank you

Paying for your training(type) is the responsibility of the employer. When your ilk buy your job which is essentially what your doing you degrade the profession. Earn your job like thousands before you and don't take the easy way out by buying your job and therefore degrading an already degraded profession.

Mile High Butt Case...


We are not type rated but happy to pay for a rating if there is a job at the end of it.

What part of "I'm not buying a job" am I missing? I thought I had a pretty good grasp on English but I'm pretty sure "Happy to pay for a rating if there is a job at the end of it" means just that.

Being from the UK, I would have expected better comprehension than that.

Stay in the UK and sniff out Ryanair....you're just the type they want.

To those that responded....your thoughts on, for instance, Southwest Airlines? At least these gents are willing to get off their butts and network.

Guys, i think i know how you feel and what you are trying to achieve...

let me give you my 2 cents.

You will not get a job with any of the big ones here. So what you are doing is putting you in a position where it will be very easy to be ripped off.. especially here in the Middle East...

why don't you travel Europe and ask those outfits for a job?

Many outfits are run by crooks and you are a welcome target to be ripped off with lots of empty promises...

Mind me asking why not trying to get a job at Ryanair? O L is the f:mad: that killed the industry, but at least get some hours and move on...

Stay clear of the middle east.... lots of sun and easy to burn your wings....



Good luck...

Flap Handle

Which OL are you referring to? Just curious about your point above.

I hope you don't assume that I worked for Ryanair, that would just be plain stupid.

I thought expats needed a full ATPL in the UAE? Don't think you'll have much luck with a CPL/IR

I was also under the impression that you needed a full ATP certificate from your country in order to "tag" the local UAE ATP and the Type rating to it.

I've been wrong before tho...

2000 hrs and still a flight instructor? hmmmm, don't waste your time and coming over here

You'd have better luck in Africa, you've got the wrong impression about how things work in the ME. There are no walk in interviews unless you want to the cleaning boy for the local shawarma shop and get paid £150 a month, no benefits, increases or promotions for as long as you live.

Wasting your time.
 

Perhaps there are jobs flying 1900s in the Kingdom of Saud. I can say you are wasting your time looking in the UAE. I agree, Africa is your best bet, or RYAN air. It appears you have the mental attitude for either.

Mile High, I just want to clarify that I think that your idea is good, you are taking the initiative. Don't be put off by the flack you are getting here. I just want to clarify that my criticism is of the ME and not you, the culture or lack of it over here means that you'll be facing too many hurdles, the least if which are the bobble heads will not be able to understand how someone could have the initiative to travel to Dubai themselves and ask for a job in person. You'll get a typical "computer says no" type answer here, because that's the way it works, very few people are high up enough to authorise your appointment. And as many have said you must have a (Frozen) ATPL, and that's the local CAA regulation, so even if your friend or father, or brothers tennis partner is the CEO or something of an air operator it doesn't mean a thing without a (Frozen) ATPL (if your friend or father or brothers tennis partner is the ruler of an emirate or a close family member then you might have a chance with a CPL/IR)

MHN: Your enthusiasm is admirable BUT, (imho) I too concur with the sentiments expressed here by others, that you're laying yourself wide-open to have your enthusiasm thoroughly abused & trashed by the many charlatans that seem to populate the senior positions at various airlines down here,... to say nothing of the middle management types (as described by Airmann) whom simply won't understand why you've turned-up on the door step without an invitation.

I might also add that I suspect that, charlatans aside, one problem you would face is that the UAE GCAA will not give you a 'validation' against your UK / EU license (for an airline job), unless you 1) hold at an ATPL, and 2) you have a reasonable amount of time on a respectably large Public Transport turbo-prop or turbo-jet. Any shortcoming in either of those and you won't even get past the doorman of those said same airlines, because no matter how much they might like you, the UAE's CGAA will not license you, and for the airline that'd be a showstopper.

Now I'm not saying it's impossible... but it's certainly not going to be easy and caveat venditor!

When I interviewed for EK several moons ago, there was a guy hanging around looking for a walk up interview. He let recruiting know he was in town for two weeks. A slot opened up and they called him in, didn't get the gig but he won't die wondering. MNH doesn't have the experience for EK but my point is you never know what happens if you take the chance, make your own luck. Having said that, paying for your rating is not so cool....

Quite strange it's acceptable to most to pay for an advanced university degree...say an MBA so they can be promoted into management...(quite common), but paying for a type rating to extricate one's self from the piston/turboprop ghetto is extremely unacceptable....paying for one's line training/ hours...yes not good because the employer is realising revenues while the traininee is paying in as all....but a type rating?...debateable

Ryanair Cancer
 

This profession started down a slippery slope the day pilots starting paying for their specific training ie type rating to gain a job.
The boys at Ryanair not only pay for their rating but they also pay for their PPCs and for their upgrade courses..... I believe they also pay for their Instructor courses.

These people have really cheapened the profession and we are all starting to pay for the cancer they have spread.

Signed
an EK pilot.

Thanks for all your constructive input guys, I really appreciate all your comments.

Just to clarify, we all have frozen ATPL's. I have 2300 hrs, one of my colleagues has 3500hrs and the other has 1200 hrs.

I don't want this to be a pay to fly debate. I don't want to pay for hours, this is the reason we're venturing into the unknown, in this climate you have to go the extra mile..

I know most think we are wasting our time, but I'm always the optimist. If we don't do it, we'll never know.

Please pm me with contact information for chief pilots, heads of training's, or anyone involved in pilot recruitment just so that we can try to make some appointments. Knowledge of any UAE based flying schools would also be useful. Surely there are some people already working in UAE that could offer some constructive advice.

Thanks in advance MHN

Quote "in this climate you have to go the extra mile.."

Man, you are made for this place!

MNH

Dude after the last post u lost me...
How many people have to tell u the truth until you get it that it's useless to come here?
Which part don't u get?
Everybody is telling u off and u still ask for chiefpilots numbers...

Come over please and update us on your success...

PS you have been warned enough...

MNH,

I like your spirit, nothing ventured nothing gained.

But we live in the Information Age where all is accessible remotely.

You can do a lot of door knocking from an iPad & and a phone - not just in the ME but also in Africa & Asia

You would be better off at finding out the hotels the African/Asian/ME carriers stay at in UK, wait in the lobby of said hotel and introduce yourself to these guys and offer them a beer if they wouldn't mind chatting to you about the local situation, not necessarily asking them for a job but more importantly building rapport & intel...I did something similar years ago and it worked.

Contrary to what you might think by the reaction on this forum, the vast majority of pilots admire determination and drive and I'm sure many would gladly sit with you for an hour or so. We too walked in your shoes.

There's an awful lot of beer/coffee money you could save by not taking a trip trip out here.

Never, ever, ever, give up...but always work smart.

Good luck.

f.

Sounds like a complete wind-up to me.

Airlines:

Fly Dubai
Air Arabia
Rotana Jet

Flight Schools

Horizon (Al Ain)
Fujeirah Aviation Academy
Emirates Flying School

Lots of cargo and charter gigs around but you will not have any luck until you get some corporate or transport category experience. Also, moving from the flight schools to the airlines is hard in the ME but certainly possible, you will have to build your network. Having a JAA license helps.

I think thats exactly what you are looking for.

Fly Gosh: Flight Instructors - Etihad Airways

What about coming over to the US to work for a regional? They will literally hire ANYONE with ATP minimums at this point. Apparently multiple DUI's are OK now, as long as you have the ATP mins.

Anyway, figure out how to get over the US and work. As long as you have a pulse, they'll put you in a E-170. Of course the pay sucks, but a great stepping stone to better paying jobs overseas, obtaining quick jet time.

He would need a Green Card. Not as easy as you would think.

Not even close.

f.

Never really thought about america because I dont have right to work there. But how hard is it really to get a green card.

tried etihad but because I am not an IR instructor, unfortunately do not meet the requirements. Still going to visit them though

MHN

Forget about a greencard. Even if you marry an American citizen, it'll still take you a long time to obtain it.

It's not like you're trying to find an airline that may sponsor you, it doesn't happen that way, yet.

Way too many regulations from TSA working against you and that's JUST to obtain your type rating for a 121 jet in US. Forget about actually flying it...

Even as a green card holder, it can be a PITA just to go through recurrent and getting the ok to sit in the box for 4 hours, especially if you have to reschedule it. It costs the company money too to get the authorization for your sim check.

Unless you have a greencard already, I would channel my time and energy elsewhere to seek employment.

Just my .02 cents.

Vortac1, what you are saying is not true. After you get marry it takes to week to get your work permit and 3 months to get your green card. Please Vortac1, stop advising people of what you have no F...g clue.

Who pissed on your cornflakes? Easy there spanish. You're not the only one who has gotten through the greencard ordeal ya know...

I also was a greencard holder smart guy. I went through the process years ago and I'm talking by my own experience. Not every USCIS takes the same time to process paperwork, so go ahead and holster it.

My whole process took 1 year and 3 months from marriage till green card was in my hand. I still keep all the paperwork too, let me know when you have a chance, I'll show it to you next time I'm in MIA for your own peace of mind, or mostly just to keep you from looking like a fool on an Internet forum again.

Sorry to disappoint, but I do know what I'm talking about.

Like I said before to the OP, I'd suggest redirecting your energy/resources towards other job markets instead of US unless you already have a greencard.

Just my .02 cents.

Vortac1, I am not going to waste my time with you. You are right, You know it all. Like you said, you talk about your own experience and that means "that is the way it is".
I have a peace of mind and the the last thing I want to do in MIA is to hang out with people like you.
Salud!!!
Back to the original topic

Smartest, most coherent thing you've typed in a while :D...

From marriage to green card in hand for my wife was 3 months, but don't marry someone just for a green card. Penalties are severe for green card fraud. There is also the green card lottery, but it is definitely a lottery, and not open to UK Citizens (except for Northern Ireland).

Good point. Totally forgot about that lottery. Worth a shot I guess if it's free or close to free to throw your name in the hat...

The green card lottery is free but the application window is once a year in the fall and selection occurs in May.

If you are white forget about getting a Green Card. Under the half and half president now no white people can get in. Only 3rd world ****e heads.
If you are not white and from a crappy country you will be sure to get one.
There is no hope for the US.

bond...?
 

What exactly do you propose being bonded for, it you pay for the type rating up front?