Tea Towel ,

You are spot on and this is terrible to see that happening so quickly.
What YYZ apparently forgot is that in Ryanair terms and conditions have been decreasing years after years and HAS BEEN ACCEPTED by the pilots without any reaction.
They have been told to become director of their own company to make them look like self employed according to the law BUT they had to choose within 3 different companies and most of these pilots know nothing about their fellow directors and their own company.
He also forgot that he had to pay for accomodation each time he was going for simulator training , pay for his medical , his uniform , that upgraded captain have to pay for their training the same apply for pilot becoming LTC , TRI , TRE etc...
And now "junior" captain are paid 90% of the "normal" captain salary for one year.
After that how can he say that Ryanair pilot will not accept lower condition , if needed , to join another company and get a new type rating on a heavy aircraft.
Of course they will and they do....

Ryanair pilots are the reason why EK started to hand out memory sticks at their roadshows.
I got something for free! Where do I sign?

Can't stand the fxxxxxs.

Don't know what all this "Ryanair pilots are cheapos" rubbish is about. I'm an FO at FR, been online for 6 months and earned more this month than the average cash element of an EK FO. Plus, where I live, the living costs are a quarter of Dubai. Oh and I can freely have a beer on the beach here. I think you need to be looking at other airlines degrading terms.

Gee, you got paid!
What about the rest?
Enjoy your cup of hot water. Must be great to get such a fantastic benefit!
Remember to charge your phone before you report for duty, we don't want you to steal electricity from the company.

I think you're missing the point. Yes, FR could be better, but it's not that bad compared to the likes of Wizz, Flybe, BACF and Vueling. How about the T and C of the BA FPP? If you don't think they're paying for type rating with the state of those salaries, dream on.
People move to EK because the terns are better than where they are, regardless of airline. You've hardly got guys sitting in better jobs going, "hmmmm I think I'll work for Emirates and take a pay cut". Or maybe there are guys like that, but they probably wouldn't make it through the psych tests.

Effoh, so you earn't more than 6385.00 quid before tax this month?

(taken from an F/O buddy of mine on the 330 who has been on line here at EK for 4 months, based on 67hrs)

I think you are dreaming....

Well €6000 after tax, which when comparing the to a tax free salary is most important.

Ok, don't mislead people. Your temporary high take home is due to a tax loophole which won't last, and the high working summer months. How much will you be paid during your months off? Or during low season?

How much pension did you get?

How much did you pay for food/Hotac/sim etc?

And when it finally dawns on you, you'll also be looking to jump ship. This is the problem, you all think you are so lucky to be given a RYR contract. In the same way the ex-fr don't mind they won't get a pay rise/bonus at EK. That's the cancer...

Hope you are saving that cash :ok:

Effoh, you are comparing apples with oranges, particularly if you are comparing costs. I'm not saying 6000 Euro's is bad money, far from it, its spectacular for a first year RYR F/O.
The big thing about comparisons is they need to be valid, (and I'm not being an EK cheer leader, but just the same its worth putting the facts out there)
As a new F/O here, expect the basic salary plus around and extra 3500 DHS flight pay, 12.5% of the basic is paid by the company into a provident fund in lieu of a pension etc, you also get FREE accommodation, and ostensibly FREE utilities. If you have kids most of the fees are paid, and you get an interest free loan that can go towards a % of the purchase of a vehicle. I forgot to mention subsidized medical and dental care (its not free, and can be a pain to get an appointment)
There are those here that due to certain lifestyle choices struggle to survive, particularly as F/O's.
To have a similar package back in the UK, including housing and schooling (I have done the maths for oooop north as its where the missus is from) would be equilvalent to about 110-115K GBP.
Yes costs have risen in Dubai, but to be honest due to my use of various opportunities to save a bit here and there, we are actually putting more money away now than ever.

Don't rain on his parade, Xulu, he is a baby pilot who think he's got it made.

Never mind paying for rating, training, uniform, food, hotels, pension, insurance. No job security, no sick pay, fly only when needed, etc, etc.

Give him a few years and he will be standing on the ME doorstep with his: I need to start saving for my pension and anything you give me is great because I'm not used to get anything, attitude.

Dear Effoh,

I would like to see your post put on the REPA or RPG website to see the reaction of your fellow pilots in Ryanair.
And as said by other above , you are talking about a good lucky month at FR but again I can see the selfish usual Ryanair behavior I was facing when I was there.
Maybe YOU are lucky enough not to be sent away from your family for a crappy salary with no guarantee that you will have enouh hours next months to pay all you and your family have to pay to live...
Please don't try to fool anybody about what is the REAL situation at Ryanair for MOST of the pilots.
It is not only about money but also all the other problems.

Last I checked, October wasn't a summer month. I pay tax according to EU law in the country I work from. I don't pay much given that my expenses reduce my taxable income. Those expenses will last longer enough for me to.... GET THIS.... get a better job. Don't get me wrong, I'm applying to EK as soon as I have the hours because I see a career there.
Ok yep you got me with the month off. I won't get paid for that. I'll be sitting at home, with the heating off, crying and eating noodles for that month. Oh wait, no, I'll be having the whole of December off, Christmas with my family and skiing in Europe. All this whilst still paying off my (modular - cheaper so I could afford type rating) training loan? Ryanair IS awful!

We can all play that game, I'll be in Byron Bay surfing with the family, and probably a few beers and a nice Ham and chook done on the BBQ.
There and back in Biz class TYVM.

You're a miserable sod, MAS. Time to get out of the industry.

Well falcon, that sounds fantastic. Exactly why I want to work for Emirates.

I don't really care if you stay or if you go.

This is all getting rather facetious. I would like to note that those who are calling FR pilots "cancerous" are including the supporters of RPG (myself included and the majority of the FR workforce), who fight the lowering of terms. One could argue, this has a positive effect in the flagship airlines.
So actually, you naysayers should be quite happy with us!

Ryanair is a much better job then Emirates!
5 on/ 4 off, no night flying!
Living in Europe! Italy,Spain,Germany.
No pension is better then not being able to enjoy it.
Rosters in EK are the worst in the whole industry, after 8 years you look 20 years older.

But I think it is the Ryanair guys fault that Dubai is so expensive and that EK doesn't pay bonus anymore!:D

Effoh how are you going to get a "better job" after FR if some other FR guys accept lower conditions then what you deem acceptable?

J3sus Chr!st guys, I'm not a grammar nazi by any means, but damn...

Learn the Difference Between "Than" and "Then"

I always wanted to be a pilot, and now I is one. :p

TeaTowel, pot meet kettle. You're desperate to get into CX right? Guess what happened to the SO contract recently for expats? They reduced the housing allowance to an unimaginably small amount. What's that? No real hours to log? No real type rating? No take offs and landings? And you still apply? But what about everyone else's T's and C's?

Yes I was. Then I did some research. You didn't even mention the 49ers, and some suicides.

And as I found in my research, 3 years ago the offer was even worse, 59 out of 60 applicants rejected it. I guess you would have been the on who accepted and told everyone: "this is how it is and we have to accept!"

TeaTowel, cancer can affect any being at any time. No one is safe.

You also make no mention of what you consider a cancer free airline.

Herein lies the problem.

Pilots could stick together as a body of professionals when face with threats to their income and lifestyle.

But what do we do? We blame each other and only worry about our own little bubble. Must be in our nature with the alpha-ego thing I guess.

Pilots of one airline are a 'cancer' because they didn't turn down a job offer based on better conditions than what they had?

In that case I guess all current EK pilots moved here not for the better conditions than their previous job, but simply for the chance to live in this region of the world. I bet they sat there in the interview and said "this contracts not good enough for me, improve it please then I'll have a think and call you back...".

I am always pleased when I pitch at the briefing room and find that my FO is ex-Ryan Air.

In EVERY case, they have been totally professional, switched on and easy to get along with. Ooooh ... they can fly an aeroplane too!

Our conditions went down the tubes before these guys even thought of joining EK, circa Sept 2008!

These nitwits who harp on about the Ryan Air influx keeping our conditions where they are have themselves to blame in equal measure. By staying you are doing exactly the same thing. Vote with your feet girls.

Face it, all we have here (at EK) are guys who didn't make the grade with the legacy carriers.

Live and let live.

?
 

A little harsh there I think Nakbin. In order to 'make the grade' at most legacy carriers you would need to begin your career with them in your mid 20s at the very latest to realistically get a shot at a wide body command. Most guys I know at EK didn't have that as an option at the start of their careers for a myriad of different reasons - no airlines recruiting, mil flying until late 30s, etc etc.
I am a fairly new DEC with EK but so far I have to say that the guys I have flown with have, almost without exception, been superb in both attitude and ability.
I have been an expat for almost 20 years now and have flown with 2 major SE Asian Carriers throughout that time. Operational standards at EK are better than each of my previous carriers and down route support is superb.
Are terms and conditions at EK an issue for me? Yes, they are as I don't like the trend. But am I ever worried about the calibre of the guy or girl sat next to me? No.
Otherwise I agree with you 100%

Didnt make the grade....?
Speak for yourself. I know plenty national carrier guys that left to come to EK. Legacy carriers are not necessarily the best to work for... Who made up that name anyway..Legacy!!
20 years in the left seat at home or 3 years with EK. Of cause you are not uprooting your family just so you can enjoy a left seat...but circumstances sometimes push in one direction. For me it was easy. I was single without kids.

Talking to guys the have left EK to go back to their old jobs, I am happy to hear that EK is a very good operator and the training is very thorough.

idiot
 

Nakbin, you obviously have some serious issues.

Some of us had offers back home with legacy carriers but decided at the time that EK was the best move. At that time the package was great compared with what was being offered back home.

So, please stop trying to talk to everyone here like you know better......in fact you just sound like a child who didn't get what he wanted. Better luck next time champ!

Joke.

Well our legacy carrier hasn't recruited since 2008, and it takes on average 8.5 years to become an FO just on a 737. The tax rate is near enough to 46%, the country is broke because of the last :mad:wits running the country, the average rent in Sydney for a 2 bed unfurnished joint is $600/week, property prices are skyrocketing because of investors overseas, so I'll never be able to own a place here because an actual house costs an average of $1.1million, school fees are $4000 aud/term and some of you :mad:have the audacity to sit there and say we're not good enough to make the grade where we come from, so we 'settle' for EK?

Yes that's what we have to do. So when someone somewhere accepts worse(dangerous even?) Ts&Cs or pays for a type or whatever, they are no longer peers or colleagues, and so have to be blamed.

A $20 Billion dollar order for A380s today. Its hardly lack of money that conditions are going down here or elsewhere. Just guys accepting it.

PTU738

You hit the nail on the head!!

DANGEROUS Ts n Cs???? Never have I heard anything so absurd.

Pot, kettle, black?

No matter what, our time in Dubai is going to make for some pretty entertaining dinner conversation when we all pack up and move back to the civilized world. You only get one shot at this life thing and hiding in you home country experiencing what you know is a waste. We have an opportunity to embrace something else here. Enjoy it. As soon as you start comparing it to what was your home town, it is of course never going to match up and will eat you. Experience it and enjoy the differences. Pack up and go when you are done. They can't.

Three cheers for Plazbot. Too many xenophobes in this world!

Damn Plazbot, couldnt've said it any better myself. It actually is as simple as that. :D

Cheers to you good sir.

Plazbot. You hit the nail squarely on the head with that comment. Well said Sir..!!:ok:

Hear hear Plazbot, talking to the guys on the flight deck lots of us feel the same as you!

LHRRain wrote:

The Accomadation Dept wants to pay only what our lease is and not a penny more. So all of you single fellas living in a 1 bedroom flat paying 65,000 dhs will only get paid 65,000 dhs for live out allowance and the company will keep the difference now, not you.


Yeah, this makes about as much sense as them cutting schooling allowance and ERP. Not gonna happen. Move on.:rolleyes: