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-   -   Pilot says Middle Eastern airline defamed, terminated him (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/525742-pilot-says-middle-eastern-airline-defamed-terminated-him.html)

SAFARI Fire Fighter 17th Oct 2013 08:25

Pilot says Middle Eastern airline defamed, terminated him
 
Pilot says Middle Eastern airline defamed, terminated him | Southeast Texas Record

gonna be an interesting one this

migair54 18th Oct 2013 09:55

I would like to know the whole story, I dont believe they fired him so easily and randomly, weare reading his partof the story, I'm not defending the airline but we can't judge only listening one side of the story.

It's interesting to see what's going to happen with this issue because it can be a turning pointfor some important event, however I dont think anything will happen, let's see and watch.

Saltaire 18th Oct 2013 14:33

And on a similar subject...Q at it again.

'Stranded ' footballer Zahir Belounis told he can leave Qatar - CNN.com

doubleu-anker 18th Oct 2013 20:03

Camels to aircraft in a generation mentality. Because one is an infidel, they are to be treated as donkeys.

How do you think they got the world cup awarded? Cool wx? Gimme a beak.

av8tordude 18th Oct 2013 21:15

QR does not a have a written policy that forbids pilots from dating cabin crew. That being said, it is frown upon!

A little background history...

There is speculation that cabin crews have been caught sleeping while operating a flight. I can only conclude, after the company conducted an internal investigation as to why a cabin crew can be soo fatigue as to fall asleep while on duty, cabin crews were not getting the proper rest required before each flight (Cabin Safety Manuals requires cabin crew "take adequate rest before each flight"). If this is the case, this is a company violation and SAFETY ISSUE!

To ensure cabin crews are getting the proper rest before each flight, it is also my guess the company decided to implement procedures to reduce the self-inflicted fatigue cases cabin crews may have been experiencing (i.e. Curfews and no male vistors pass a certain night-time hour). It is speculated the company has not intruded upon anyone social behavior, but once a crew member performance comes into question, the company must take action.

Keep in mind, Qatar is a Muslim country, therefore certain social behaviors could potentially put you in conflict with Qatari Law (i.e. Co-habitation outside of marriage, Non-marital sex, etc). Qatar has the international right to take actions if a "crime" has been committed. I'm sure there are similar cases that don't make the news, but has happen in the past with QR or other Qatar companies.

In regards to MG case, it will be very difficult to win this case. the US govt will have to consider if MG has broken any Qatari Laws. Qatar does not have cooperate offices in the US, therefore QR is not bound to comply with any US employment laws. Only outcome I can see happening is public embarrassment to the company.
Another thing, Expats are not employees of a company, but Contractors. Therefore, one can not be "fired" from the company, but your contract can be terminated, therefore leaving you unemployed.

It will be an uphill battle. I wish him luck!

fatbus 18th Oct 2013 22:05

Av8,
Great post ,very good info.

Stone_cold 19th Oct 2013 04:48

AV8r
 
1) The law re rest is designed to protect the employee from being rostered indiscriminately by employers . The onus is on the individual alone to manage this rest . Not for the company to impose . I suppose the pilots don't "feel fatigued' at any time . I guess it would be appropriate for this company to impose similar curfews on the pilots also ?Would you be so agreeable if the company were to impose this on all . What about alcohol ?Maybe they should stop granting licenses at all ,as some cannot manage their responsibility to report for duty over the 0.0000 limit .

2) A day off is just that ! A continuous period free and undisturbed from all duties from the company . A duty is ; Any continuous period during which a crew member is required to carry out any task
associated with the business of the Company. A rest period : An undisturbed period of time before starting a flying duty period which is designed to
give crew members adequate opportunity to rest before a flight. key word is designed .
What about the imposition of the curfew requirement on layovers also . Again 12 hours prior to pick up also or do you agree and consider it reasonable that QR can control what you do with all your free time ,on and off duty .A company is not empowered to impose anything during rest , arguably it could be said then that this becomes a "duty" if it is a company required "request " .

If there is a violation of regulations(i.e.sleeping on duty) , then deal with the violation , but to suggest that any company dictates where/how one spend one's rest is ridiculous .

If they are so concerned about Muslim laws etc. as you claim , why are a significant amount of the cars , in and out of the c/crew accommodations manned by dishdash attired persons .

If you are blissfully going about your life there , then more power to you , however , maybe you should give thought to what if /when you run afoul of them . I do agree with you on a couple of points , the laws of Qatar protect them and they do hide behind them , but embarrassment /face saving is a concern .

Not sure how long you have been there , but there have been reports of more than a few who have "quietly " won cases against QR or more correctly "settled" . So I too wish him and many more "luck " and more importantly , encourage assistance .

WYOMINGPILOT 19th Oct 2013 07:52

I wish this guy well but doubt he will find any justice in a US Court system. The case will most likely be dismissed. US Courts have routinely sided with employers and in this case a Non US employer charged with an Unfair Dismissal case in a pro-management Texas Court seems an almost impossible uphill battle.

pilotday 19th Oct 2013 14:56

His only chance at any retaliation is if the media outlets take hold of his story.

Maybe he could team up with that whiney Delta pilot about Emirates' JFK-MXP route.

loc22550 19th Oct 2013 16:05

Trying to justify the cabin crew curfew(in Doha only), by telling that the company wants to make sure the crew are well rested before the flight is simply hilarious!:E

av8tordude 19th Oct 2013 20:53

I'll say this and we'll just have to agree to disagree....

No where in my statement did I indicate or suggested I agree with the company policies (written or unwritten). If you go back an re-read what I wrote, how did you and loc22550 conclude I was justifying the company policy? I only offer my reasonable conclusion (assessment) for such polices.

I will agree on a few statements you wrote...


The onus is on the individual alone to manage this rest . Not for the company to impose .
If one is irresponsible to obtain the appropriate amount rest required by regulation, how can one complain about being fatigue.


If there is a violation of regulations(i.e.sleeping on duty) , then deal with the violation
Having a policy that punishing the masses for one person's irresponsible behavior is not the best course of action. It only begets discontent within the ranks.


If they are so concerned about Muslim laws etc. as you claim , why are a significant amount of the cars , in and out of the c/crew accommodations manned by dishdash attired persons .
How would you know this???? Are you a frequent visitor of such locations to have observe such activity? Without insinuating anything, I can only speculate you would have knowledge of such activity existing from general conversation with cabin crew.

That being said...My time here at QR has been "blissful" in comparison to my previous employer, but don't make the mistake or the ASSUmption that I am oblivious to think that when the crap hits the fan, I won't get hit. Unless one has been living a hermit lifestyle and completely disconnected from technology, anyone coming to QR is acutely aware of such unfortunate events occurring at QR.

I'm amaze how so many people criticize the company's behavior, yet offer illogical excuses why one would accept employment at a company known for its treatment of its employees that may conflict with one own moral and ethical values. Do you think criticizing and whining about the companies policies is going to move the company to makes changes. Don't be naive! One must be in a position from within to be able to achieve any reasonable change in the company's policy. Even if one is in such position, it doesn't guarantee one will not find oneself removed from such position by voicing for change.

I offer this advice...First you get along, then you go along, if you want to have any lengthy tenure with this company. If one is conflicted with the company and its policies, I'm sure the company would rather see you happy somewhere else rather than being a disgruntle employee from within.

ironbutt57 20th Oct 2013 04:50

One might suspect that the rest was imposed, after the crews failed to impose upon themselves...bear in mind the origins of many crew here, and the fact it's probably their first time free from mommy n daddy....

DesertHawk 20th Oct 2013 07:24

then u might ask why ONLY qatar crews are subjected to these type of rules? also airlines have rules and regulations to deal with employees who are unfit for duty, and if one were to be so inclined to continually show for duty in an unrested state i would assume would be dealt with accordingly.

av8tordude 20th Oct 2013 09:09

It's obvious reading comprehension is lacking upon some members of this discussion, so I took the liberty to define words that I have used and words other members of this discussion have used...

Words I used in my statements...

Guess: To form an opinion or give an answer about something when you do not know much or anything about it.

Speculation: Ideas or guesses about something that is not known.

Conclude: to form or state an opinion.


Words used by other members of this discussion...

Justify: To provide or be a good reason for (something) : to prove or show (something) to be just, right, or reasonable

Inaccuracy: Lack of correctness or exactness


Since I did not provide proof that would set a precedence, I did not "Justify" anything! I only provided my own self-assessment.



Originally Posted by Marvleman
It is obvious that you are lacking comprehension and drinking Qatar's koolaid 24/7. Certainly you are in no position to offer any advice here to anyone and nobody asked you for your off the wall opinion. Take your non-sense blah blah elsewhere.

My comprehension about working at QR is quite clear . I was hired to do one job. Fly their aircraft how the want it, where they want it, in the manner they want it. If I don't like, nothing will stop me from packing up and returning home. The company has its own policies, just like any other company. If QR policies are in conflict with your morals and values, well...Its been repeated many time before, I not going to continue beating a dead horse by repeating what others have said.


So far, my family and I are content living here. My wife makes equal salary as I and we are making the best of our time on this side of the globe while we are here. When the time comes for us to leave, it will be a time when we feel it is time to return home.

In regards to offering opinions and/or advice, members of this website come here looking for information, suggestion, and/or advice. Since I live here, work here and I don't have such an antagonistic view about QR or Qatar, I can "Justify" offering my opinion, advice, and/or suggestion that will benefit anyone in need. I can only conclude you live in NYC working for an US airline and never lived or worked in Qatar or QR. More power to you :ok:.

Laker 20th Oct 2013 09:32

av8tor,

From what i'm reading on here you are actually not free to pack up and leave whenever you want. It sounds like you can only leave if Qatar decides to let you leave. Is that not how the system works?

BYMONEK 20th Oct 2013 10:28

puposicilliano

Your ongoing vitriolic tirade against those that choose to work for ME carriers is rather pitiful.

Your posts serve no other purpose than to highlight a basic lack of respect, manners and general courtesy to fellow pilots as you degenerate into personal attacks against those either explaining or justifying their career. Your hatred of the Gulf region is so intense, it makes me suspect you may be a failed candidate yourself?

Please, tell us all which wonderful Company you work for and in which glorious part of the World you so freely live in so that we can aspire to follow in your footsteps.

av8tordude 20th Oct 2013 11:01


Originally Posted by Laker
From what i'm reading on here you are actually not free to pack up and leave whenever you want. It sounds like you can only leave if Qatar decides to let you leave. Is that not how the system works?

This web-forum and others like it only serve one purpose...obtain personal experiences from others. Aside from stories you have read, keep in mind, its possible there may be more to that story then what is being said. As to your question, the link below may serve as a useful tool to help understand how things work here.

Qatar Labor Law | Qatar Labor Law

Article (49)
If the service contract is of an indefinite duration any of the two parties thereto may terminate it without giving the reasons for the termination. In this case the party intending to terminate the contract shall notify the other party in writing as follows:
  1. In respect of the workers who receive their wages annually or monthly, the notification shall be given not less than one month prior to the date of the termination. If the period of service is five years or less. If the period of service is more than five years, the notification period shall be at least two months prior to the date of termination.
  2. In all other cases the notification shall be given in accordance with the following periods :
A) If the period of service is less than one year the notification period shall be at least one week.
B) If the period of service is more than one year and less than five years
C) the notification period shall be at least two weeks.
D) If the service period is more than five years the notification period shall
E) be at least one month.


If the contract is terminated without observing these periods, the party terminating the contract shall be obligated to compensate the other party for an amount equivalent to the wage for the notice period or the remaining part thereof.


Article (57) Upon termination of the service of the worker the employer shall at his cost return him to the place from where he has recruited him at the commencement of the engagement or to any place agreed upon between the parties.


The employer shall complete the proceedings of returning the non*Qatari worker within a period not exceeding two weeks from the expiry date of the contract. If the worker joins another employer before his departure from the State the obligation to return him to his country or other place shifts to the latter employer.


The employer shall bear the costs of preparing the corpse of the deceased worker and the conveyance thereof to his country or place of residence upon the demand of his heirs.

vfenext 20th Oct 2013 11:59

I thought you needed an exit visa to leave Qatar? Who issues it if you work for QR?

av8tordude 20th Oct 2013 12:47


Originally Posted by vfenext
I thought you needed an exit visa to leave Qatar? Who issues it if you work for QR?

The employee must obtain a no-objection letter from the company to obtain an exit visa to leave the country.

I think its absurd for an anyone be required to get permission to leave a country where you are not a citizen, but its the law of their land

vfenext 20th Oct 2013 14:20

Hey Pupo, you're so angry it's funny. Keep the posts coming.


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