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Pilot says Middle Eastern airline defamed, terminated him
Pilot says Middle Eastern airline defamed, terminated him | Southeast Texas Record
gonna be an interesting one this |
I would like to know the whole story, I dont believe they fired him so easily and randomly, weare reading his partof the story, I'm not defending the airline but we can't judge only listening one side of the story.
It's interesting to see what's going to happen with this issue because it can be a turning pointfor some important event, however I dont think anything will happen, let's see and watch. |
And on a similar subject...Q at it again.
'Stranded ' footballer Zahir Belounis told he can leave Qatar - CNN.com |
Camels to aircraft in a generation mentality. Because one is an infidel, they are to be treated as donkeys.
How do you think they got the world cup awarded? Cool wx? Gimme a beak. |
QR does not a have a written policy that forbids pilots from dating cabin crew. That being said, it is frown upon!
A little background history... There is speculation that cabin crews have been caught sleeping while operating a flight. I can only conclude, after the company conducted an internal investigation as to why a cabin crew can be soo fatigue as to fall asleep while on duty, cabin crews were not getting the proper rest required before each flight (Cabin Safety Manuals requires cabin crew "take adequate rest before each flight"). If this is the case, this is a company violation and SAFETY ISSUE! To ensure cabin crews are getting the proper rest before each flight, it is also my guess the company decided to implement procedures to reduce the self-inflicted fatigue cases cabin crews may have been experiencing (i.e. Curfews and no male vistors pass a certain night-time hour). It is speculated the company has not intruded upon anyone social behavior, but once a crew member performance comes into question, the company must take action. Keep in mind, Qatar is a Muslim country, therefore certain social behaviors could potentially put you in conflict with Qatari Law (i.e. Co-habitation outside of marriage, Non-marital sex, etc). Qatar has the international right to take actions if a "crime" has been committed. I'm sure there are similar cases that don't make the news, but has happen in the past with QR or other Qatar companies. In regards to MG case, it will be very difficult to win this case. the US govt will have to consider if MG has broken any Qatari Laws. Qatar does not have cooperate offices in the US, therefore QR is not bound to comply with any US employment laws. Only outcome I can see happening is public embarrassment to the company. Another thing, Expats are not employees of a company, but Contractors. Therefore, one can not be "fired" from the company, but your contract can be terminated, therefore leaving you unemployed. It will be an uphill battle. I wish him luck! |
Av8,
Great post ,very good info. |
AV8r
1) The law re rest is designed to protect the employee from being rostered indiscriminately by employers . The onus is on the individual alone to manage this rest . Not for the company to impose . I suppose the pilots don't "feel fatigued' at any time . I guess it would be appropriate for this company to impose similar curfews on the pilots also ?Would you be so agreeable if the company were to impose this on all . What about alcohol ?Maybe they should stop granting licenses at all ,as some cannot manage their responsibility to report for duty over the 0.0000 limit .
2) A day off is just that ! A continuous period free and undisturbed from all duties from the company . A duty is ; Any continuous period during which a crew member is required to carry out any task associated with the business of the Company. A rest period : An undisturbed period of time before starting a flying duty period which is designed to give crew members adequate opportunity to rest before a flight. key word is designed . What about the imposition of the curfew requirement on layovers also . Again 12 hours prior to pick up also or do you agree and consider it reasonable that QR can control what you do with all your free time ,on and off duty .A company is not empowered to impose anything during rest , arguably it could be said then that this becomes a "duty" if it is a company required "request " . If there is a violation of regulations(i.e.sleeping on duty) , then deal with the violation , but to suggest that any company dictates where/how one spend one's rest is ridiculous . If they are so concerned about Muslim laws etc. as you claim , why are a significant amount of the cars , in and out of the c/crew accommodations manned by dishdash attired persons . If you are blissfully going about your life there , then more power to you , however , maybe you should give thought to what if /when you run afoul of them . I do agree with you on a couple of points , the laws of Qatar protect them and they do hide behind them , but embarrassment /face saving is a concern . Not sure how long you have been there , but there have been reports of more than a few who have "quietly " won cases against QR or more correctly "settled" . So I too wish him and many more "luck " and more importantly , encourage assistance . |
I wish this guy well but doubt he will find any justice in a US Court system. The case will most likely be dismissed. US Courts have routinely sided with employers and in this case a Non US employer charged with an Unfair Dismissal case in a pro-management Texas Court seems an almost impossible uphill battle.
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His only chance at any retaliation is if the media outlets take hold of his story.
Maybe he could team up with that whiney Delta pilot about Emirates' JFK-MXP route. |
Trying to justify the cabin crew curfew(in Doha only), by telling that the company wants to make sure the crew are well rested before the flight is simply hilarious!:E
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I'll say this and we'll just have to agree to disagree....
No where in my statement did I indicate or suggested I agree with the company policies (written or unwritten). If you go back an re-read what I wrote, how did you and loc22550 conclude I was justifying the company policy? I only offer my reasonable conclusion (assessment) for such polices. I will agree on a few statements you wrote... The onus is on the individual alone to manage this rest . Not for the company to impose . If there is a violation of regulations(i.e.sleeping on duty) , then deal with the violation If they are so concerned about Muslim laws etc. as you claim , why are a significant amount of the cars , in and out of the c/crew accommodations manned by dishdash attired persons . That being said...My time here at QR has been "blissful" in comparison to my previous employer, but don't make the mistake or the ASSUmption that I am oblivious to think that when the crap hits the fan, I won't get hit. Unless one has been living a hermit lifestyle and completely disconnected from technology, anyone coming to QR is acutely aware of such unfortunate events occurring at QR. I'm amaze how so many people criticize the company's behavior, yet offer illogical excuses why one would accept employment at a company known for its treatment of its employees that may conflict with one own moral and ethical values. Do you think criticizing and whining about the companies policies is going to move the company to makes changes. Don't be naive! One must be in a position from within to be able to achieve any reasonable change in the company's policy. Even if one is in such position, it doesn't guarantee one will not find oneself removed from such position by voicing for change. I offer this advice...First you get along, then you go along, if you want to have any lengthy tenure with this company. If one is conflicted with the company and its policies, I'm sure the company would rather see you happy somewhere else rather than being a disgruntle employee from within. |
One might suspect that the rest was imposed, after the crews failed to impose upon themselves...bear in mind the origins of many crew here, and the fact it's probably their first time free from mommy n daddy....
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then u might ask why ONLY qatar crews are subjected to these type of rules? also airlines have rules and regulations to deal with employees who are unfit for duty, and if one were to be so inclined to continually show for duty in an unrested state i would assume would be dealt with accordingly.
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It's obvious reading comprehension is lacking upon some members of this discussion, so I took the liberty to define words that I have used and words other members of this discussion have used...
Words I used in my statements... Guess: To form an opinion or give an answer about something when you do not know much or anything about it. Speculation: Ideas or guesses about something that is not known. Conclude: to form or state an opinion. Words used by other members of this discussion... Justify: To provide or be a good reason for (something) : to prove or show (something) to be just, right, or reasonable Inaccuracy: Lack of correctness or exactness Since I did not provide proof that would set a precedence, I did not "Justify" anything! I only provided my own self-assessment.
Originally Posted by Marvleman
It is obvious that you are lacking comprehension and drinking Qatar's koolaid 24/7. Certainly you are in no position to offer any advice here to anyone and nobody asked you for your off the wall opinion. Take your non-sense blah blah elsewhere.
So far, my family and I are content living here. My wife makes equal salary as I and we are making the best of our time on this side of the globe while we are here. When the time comes for us to leave, it will be a time when we feel it is time to return home. In regards to offering opinions and/or advice, members of this website come here looking for information, suggestion, and/or advice. Since I live here, work here and I don't have such an antagonistic view about QR or Qatar, I can "Justify" offering my opinion, advice, and/or suggestion that will benefit anyone in need. I can only conclude you live in NYC working for an US airline and never lived or worked in Qatar or QR. More power to you :ok:. |
av8tor,
From what i'm reading on here you are actually not free to pack up and leave whenever you want. It sounds like you can only leave if Qatar decides to let you leave. Is that not how the system works? |
puposicilliano
Your ongoing vitriolic tirade against those that choose to work for ME carriers is rather pitiful. Your posts serve no other purpose than to highlight a basic lack of respect, manners and general courtesy to fellow pilots as you degenerate into personal attacks against those either explaining or justifying their career. Your hatred of the Gulf region is so intense, it makes me suspect you may be a failed candidate yourself? Please, tell us all which wonderful Company you work for and in which glorious part of the World you so freely live in so that we can aspire to follow in your footsteps. |
Originally Posted by Laker
From what i'm reading on here you are actually not free to pack up and leave whenever you want. It sounds like you can only leave if Qatar decides to let you leave. Is that not how the system works?
Qatar Labor Law | Qatar Labor Law Article (49) If the service contract is of an indefinite duration any of the two parties thereto may terminate it without giving the reasons for the termination. In this case the party intending to terminate the contract shall notify the other party in writing as follows:
B) If the period of service is more than one year and less than five years C) the notification period shall be at least two weeks. D) If the service period is more than five years the notification period shall E) be at least one month. If the contract is terminated without observing these periods, the party terminating the contract shall be obligated to compensate the other party for an amount equivalent to the wage for the notice period or the remaining part thereof. Article (57) Upon termination of the service of the worker the employer shall at his cost return him to the place from where he has recruited him at the commencement of the engagement or to any place agreed upon between the parties. The employer shall complete the proceedings of returning the non*Qatari worker within a period not exceeding two weeks from the expiry date of the contract. If the worker joins another employer before his departure from the State the obligation to return him to his country or other place shifts to the latter employer. The employer shall bear the costs of preparing the corpse of the deceased worker and the conveyance thereof to his country or place of residence upon the demand of his heirs. |
I thought you needed an exit visa to leave Qatar? Who issues it if you work for QR?
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Originally Posted by vfenext
I thought you needed an exit visa to leave Qatar? Who issues it if you work for QR?
I think its absurd for an anyone be required to get permission to leave a country where you are not a citizen, but its the law of their land |
Hey Pupo, you're so angry it's funny. Keep the posts coming.
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Exit visa
Just to clarify, QR pilots are treated a little differently to other employees in Qatar. Most people do have to ask their employer for a no objection letter for an exit visa in order to leave the country. I understand QR cabin crew have to, though I am not certain of this. However, the company requires pilots to obtain a mulit-exit permit, at their own expense - 500 Q Rials. So no, QR pilots are not slaves, they can leave the country without seeking permission.
Sadly this is not the case for thousands of low skilled labourers in Qatar. |
Dear sicilian, I don't have a dog in this fight, but judging from your posts, may I ask....from what civilization did you come from? everybody is entitled to an opinion and I did not see any post here where you were insulted.....cheer up and mature, maybe then you'll behave like an AIRMAN....matey
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Originally Posted by Stone_cold
Hi Av8r ,
Not trying to get into a tit-for-tat , and as you may notice I am not an active poster . However , in life and online ...I try not assume . If I presume or hear third party , I will gladly say this . So , yes , I know and have observed this phenomena personally , having been a guest at the ccrew accommodation myself . I have also been to the token liquor depot and have had a Qatari(assumption here) in full thobe/dishdash purchasing more alcohol than I did . I have personally seen similar attire in various hotel bars partaking in the liquid of the infidels , so I do see a high level of hypocrisy in that area of the world as there is in many others . However the righteousness is a different level . RV ...any pilot can be electronically locked into the country on a whim . Multiple exit canceled in a second . And the cabin crew cannot obtain a multiple and have to request to leave on each occasion . There is also rumour as to why the E-gates "white elephants " stood idle for so long . The pilots were forced as you said to obtain the multiple at their own expense , and the HR VP had the gall to suggest that it was for the pilot's own convenience . Guess what , it is rumoured that the E-gates cannot function without Multiple and also guess what , it is rumoured again that there was no way a certain floor in the Tower would grant this , so millions (maybe) of Riyals wasted to satisfy the requirements of supreme control .( I prefer slavery ) but this is an opinion . So just to provide a different side , all is well there until it is not . It can all go wrong in an instant and I have seen it happen , so Av8tr , you are fortunate not to have experienced the bad , because as in many cases , you may not have the time or protections to salvage your life .So to provide a balance , persons on the outside need to know somethings prior to getting in. Especially as some potential employees have never experienced such archaic laws. You present a good side , however , I believe that at times you have been a little harsh on the negative reporters , but remember where there is smoke , there is fire . Generally , I see most who come here seeking information disregarding the bad , and welcoming the good ( seeking to justify their decision perhaps) , but I would strongly suggest that there is an element or more of truth in every bad story on QR here , just as your observations are probably enshrined in truth . You have your experiences and others have had different , this doesn't mean that they didn't happen or will continue to . Thank you friend! |
Can I sue QR and Mr AAB in the same court?? Seriously I think it is time and I was forced out of the company by him without EOSB pay.
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Av8tordude or other expats pilots did work hard and succeed to put themselves and their family in good conditions. They achieve that goal where it was possible to do it and like any other individuals they deserve respect for that. They are not governors, CEO or something but simple pilots who are flying where there are jobs.
In the other hand if you are someone who like to think or care a bit about what’s happening to people around you, then the question is : Can you accept to work for a entity that makes you feel good by hurting so many others of your co-workers in their life? Of course the solution may not be to simply quit your job, but is it just to adhere to such policies? If you are a Qatari thinking me myself and I, I can understand why you don’t care. But if you are an expat pilot with a bit of conscious, how to feel good when in the same plane you’re flying, you know they’re so many cabin crew behind you having to deal with such hard rules you won’t ever accept yourself? If you succeed in your company, it is because of the good work of you and the other members of your company. Why you feel free and happy when some of your co-workers feel fear with rules that restricted their life that way? Is it something require to make you happy? QR is competitive and offer jobs to people who won’t have one elsewhere.Very good. But the benefit of their success should make the life of every of it member better, not just you. Just my point of view of the debate:) |
I find it illogical to conclude for anyone accepting a position at any company, particulary at QR, if the person is aware of such policies that may conflict with one's own personal morals and values. That being said, some of my friends are dating CC. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as they understand the risk they are partaking. I've already concluded that most relationships are relationships of convenience with one common theme. They all come to a cross-road where they must decide which direction they must take.
RK303 conjures up some valid points, however the company seems to take offense when people offer a sensible approach to various past problems, therefore making the person offering the suggestion, their target for persecution. Sad! I can only see a change in policy direction when the company runs out of CV's. Only then will the company consider a review of such medieval & archaic policies. On the other hand, every company has its risk and rewards. Its up the individual to decide if the rewards are worth the risk? For a pilot's career, I truly hope she is worth it. |
I couldn't agree more, Pup.
The amazing thing is you actually get a wide spread of tragic misfits on this forum who, when their "ugly sister" is exposed for the lying, two-faced, cheating, immoral, hypocritical, childish, greedy, self-centred, spiteful tramp that she is, will readily jump in frothing at the mouth to the defence. It really is amusing. Anyway I hope you avoid being banned for a bit longer. Keep it coming... :ok: |
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" ONLY merit is HAVING DIG a hole in the sand.." Well even that,not sure they dig the hole by themselves...:ouch: So Let me correct the sentence Pup: The only merit is to BE SEATED on the 3th biggest gas ressource In the world ( after Russia and Iran,keeping in mind that due to sanction imposed to Iran, they are sucking the gas from the Iranian part of the north field as well, but that's a another story..). |
:D:D:D:DBravo. Well said my friend!! MIDGET:ok:
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:ok:Well boys , as they say when in Rome do as the Romans do. When you are in the Mid East do as the Arabs do. They are your bosses , they set the rules so you do as they please. No one forced you to go there and work. You cannot expect the systems of America and Europe to be implemented in the Mid East just because you are there. That's the reality. Young MG sounds like an Arab kid brought up in the US. Someone should tell him to go back to his roots and follow the teachings of his ancestors.:E:E
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"They set the rules so you do as they please..." sky dancer; The case above refers to false allegations and accusations unrelated to any rules of employment! So absolutely Nothing to do with what you mention. |
Skydancer your really ignorant.
So if your gonna do as the arabs do , then do you hold hands with another guy , hit your head on the ground five times a day, starve yourself one month per year, wear funny dresses and slippers like if your moses, cover your wife, mom and daughter so nobody can see them,, if thats the case you belong in the sandpit |
I still do not see what specific employment regulations MG has infringed and why he feels he was unfairly dismissed. Nearly all of the foregoing posts are off thread and relate to a code of conduct (not written in any regulation). These codes of conduct and the type of lifestyle in Qatar are widely known and should be reseaerched before going there. At one point in my life, I was walking the streets on welfare and was offered a job with QR. I researched heavily and declined the offer. I continued to walk the streets for a while. Certain things I cannot do or comply with and I vote with my feet. It is not just the Middle East. Another time, redundant again, in a favoured Western European country, Airline just next door was hiring. They did have expected codes of conduct (not written down in regulation) which I found unduly restrictive, like wearing your hat when going to the loo, wearing your hat at all times when in uniform (including when driving you car) etc, etc. I didn't even apply to that company & opted, again, for welfare and walking the streets.
Other Companies in the ME are far less restrictive and the lifestyles to be enjoyed in these States, again, far less restrictive. But, do the research & if you really feel that it is all too restrictive, avoid. Finally, off thread too but I do feel that all these countries with completely different cultures & histories have come a long way in the march of , so called, progress, to bow to western culture. They will tolerate, to varied extent, our behaviours, likes and dislikes. Some of it goes underground but they will not like us waving some of our excesses in their faces. Don't like ? Don't wish to meet them half way too ? Stay away . Back on thread, if MG really has a case, good luck. |
Reading through the article, I feel that Qatar has a case to answer.
There are some basic rules of decency, no country must be allowed to go against, no matter what your national culture, or company philosophy can be. MG has obviously a zero chance of a fair trial in Qatar, as opposed to one in the states. Where I do find a problem in the US, is in the jury system where idiots can be emotionally swayed like the OJ and Zimmerman runs. Good luck to him from a fellow aviator. |
rdr ; Agreed. MG claims that his alledged reasons for dismissal do not form part of his contract of employment. End of story. But, to get it to stick will be an uphill battle. My point also is that failure to comply with these wretched unwritten codes of conduct would lead to disfavour and a stitch up. Unfair, illegal but that is the fact of life in some places and companies.
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Laker you may be right. Either way, with or without the complicity of Dick Dastardly the boss, Qatar should explain their actions.
BTW, why not try your hand at writing a mystery novel. |
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