EK advice please
 

Having just come back from Dubai to get a taster, I'm still not sure about making the move from the UK.

So I ask a question to all you European EK drivers. If you were offered a position at your national flag carrier, would you leave EK. Thanks

Probably depends upon:

1. Your national carrier - BA is certainly considered a "safe" choice but you never know if you are at the bottom of the list. Upgrade progression is likely slow at both BA and EK

2. Do you like very warm weather

3. Can you and your family adapt to the ME culture over the long term

Iver, you don't work for EK. FFS

Well, as for MY national Flag Carrier, the traffic is currently strictly one-way.

But, really, that is a secondary issue.

It is MUCH more a relevent question as to whether you and your Family can make a life long-term in Dubai.

It ain't easy, and has many differences and challenges.

If you can, EK probably offers a pretty attractive path compared to most of what else is available.

If you can't, the best job in the world isn't worth squat if you can't stick it, or lose your family as a result.

We've done well, many haven't- do your homework and choose carefully!

ATIS

I'm from the same country as you, have been at EK on the Boeing for two years.

A short amount of time yes, but would I go to BA if they called me tomorrrow?

Absolutely no way!

My friend..don't be fooled. Stay away and remain within the boundaries of civilization. Even England, quite incredibly, is better than the Kingdom of Camel Hot. QAFPS two years.. too short. Wait until you will have a taste of the real EK/Dubai. It will sure come ..just a matter of time.

Does he work in the airline world at all? Or live in ME? Don't think so, but that doesn't stop him from being an "expert" on all ME airlines.

You need to have an idea of what your timeframe is. If you're planning to stay till retirement then well and good, but most people dont plan to stay long term when they first go to the desert. My experience is that most people have a 10 year timeframe in mind. If that is the case then there are a couple of things to consider.
Firstly, in 10 years you are extremely unlikely to have accumulated enough wealth to just walk away. If you have, then you a wasting your time as a pilot, you should be a Professional investor.

Therefore you need to consider what your escape plan is. After 10 years you are unlikely to find another carrier that you are in a position to join that offers anywhere near the conditions or security of EK. Accordingly, like many who came with a 10 year plan, you end up being a lifer. Not because you love it, but because you cant find an acceptable alternative.
Having said that there are many who do love it.
I've been gone 4 years and have an excellent job, but I'm still not sure i did the right thing by leaving

You need to weigh it up with what other offers you actually have. Ba won't recruit for another year and there's already a queue for a start with them so, you will be looking at around the end of 2013 at the earliest. Can you wait that long assuming that your successful in interview? Around 400 have joined since they began recruiting again in 2010 so that's a fair amount in front of you in a seniority driven company.

Apart from that and a small decrease in T&C's it's the best euro job around at the moment in my opinion. It's not perfect but it's close.

I've not been in Dubai that long and it is as I thought at time of interview, not perfect. It is as it says on the tin, not the UK. I accepted that and came here with eyes open and I'm not very often surprised by how things work over here.
I know people that came thinking it was the bee's knee's and are so disappointed and so so desperate to get out.

The job ain't that bad and you can do the mix of long or short haul flying as you would at BA albeit all on the same aircraft type. Crews are nice although there seems to be a big them and us culture here and can be seen down route when the crew make plans and don't involve anyone not in their clique.

Having accommodation provided is a plus I think as my salary is mine to spend on fast cars, fancy watches and fast women if I so wish whilst in the meantime someone else pays the mortgage back home for my nest egg should it all go horribly wrong out here and I need out Other plus points. private education for the kids which I can't afford back home, relatively safe environment, large cultural diversity, cost of living comparable to northern parts of the UK, cheap fuel and during the winter 6 months of outdoor living.

If you want send me a pm with any questions and never base any decisions with what is here on pprune. Everyone's situation is different and thus no one can ever question which way you decide to go.

Oh and remember, a holdpool is not a job. Don't place all your hopes and dreams into a holdpool.

Kempus

Thanks guys for the good gen.

A happy man joins Emirates. A happier man has left Emirates.
Inbetween is an emotional rollercoaster.

Depends on your POV... Do you want to be taxed to pay for lazy wasters??? I didn't:eek::eek::eek: So I left BA:ok:

Absolutely SPOT-ON Navrad!!

K

I left a 737 command in the low cost world to come to EK to live the dream. Unfortunately it's not been the dream I've been looking for so I've resigned and am heading home after 2 years with the company. Another couple of gentlemen from my previous company have resigned in the last couple of weeks, with no flying job as such to go home to. :bored:

I think Kempus post above is spot on though. Everybody's situation is different and I can see why some people enjoy EK. My previous airline seems to be deteriorating to the point that guys are desperate to get out, and with the European carriers struggling at the minute EK seems like a fair alternative.

The biggest challenge to EK is DXB. I wont exhaust this point as its being covered well before. Its essential though that you can make Dubai work otherwise EK could be painful. The advice that most give is come out and experience the place first hand. That's all well and good but you cant do that for a year or two, and unfortunately that's around how long it takes to really know if you can do 10+ years in this place. People sight a lack of hobbies and interests as a reason that Dubai doesn't work for them. I have many and I cant make it work, specially in the summer when the temp hits 40+ deg.

The other point which was made well above is how long do you intend on serving in EK? 10 years does seem to be around average here. The pro company guys will probably be quick to point out that we have guys that are sitting around 20 yrs +. This is true, but I think they forget the meaning of average. 10 years is a long time to spend in a foreign country, unless of course you cant stand your own home abode in which case furry muff. However you are a guest in DXB, you hold a residence visa not a green card. If you find yourself in soapy bubble you can have the carpet pulled from beneath you feet pretty quickly.

Once you've done your 10 years and have your lovely 777 Command, where are you going to take it? I have another 30 years of flying in me (unless EK keeping sending me on ULR's with 20hrs rest in the hotel, i'll be lucky to have 15 years of life left in me lol :E). The usual suspects crop up of course, Turkish, Korean and contracting in China. And as pointed out so well by the company lads several folk that have left for these places are knocking on the door for their job back.

I know guys that are very happy here and I'm glad they've found a place they can hang their hat up. Not for me though, I'm very lucky to have got a legacy job back in the uk and I'm not passing up that opportunity. As safe as EK? probably not. But I think i'd have left Mainstream commercial aviation if I had to stay more years in EK anyway.

Interesting that BA keeps popping up in these threads. Many comments about, " I wouldn't go to BA now if they came knocking on my door". I find these comments amusing as the vast majority of guys that came to EK from my airline had failed the BA selection lol...:mad: strange :cool:

Good luck...I hope it works out for you.

I wouldnt do it again, once you are here you are stuck for life

If BA offered me direct entry on the 380, 3 flights a month, 3 year seniority, year round sunshine, a paid for house or flat with bills covered, transport to and from work, their old final salary pension scheme and up to 50% off hundreds of food and bevvy outlets in and around London, then I would consider it.

Instead I would get European short-haul for around 4 years and fleet frozen with it on the 319 or 737, working every weekend for your first 5 years (an important point when in your own country and quite frankly I'm too old to go through that crap) in a cold, grey and miserable climate riddled with recessionary cutbacks and rising costs everywhere you turn. How much longer can British Gas keep hiking up prices 10% every year?

With 32 EK flights per day in and out of the UK, if you ever feel like getting wet and depressed then its fairly straight forward to get back to the UK.

Nice to see old friends from time to time though!

Craggenmore, BA wouldn't hire you now as they didn't hire you years ago. That is why you flew for that ****e charter company you call an airline and think EK is a great airline.
BA does not hire DECs because they are a good airline to work for. EK hires DECs and you see the terms and conditons we have here. Yes we all know you think that EK is better than that crap airline you worked for. Look around and see how many 777 pilots make more than us and work less but it is a good job for you though.

EK, and then next ?
 

To all EK Guys :

You said you plan to stay around 10 years flying for EK.
My question is:

What do most of you do after EK ?

Retire!....

ATIS:

If you have any doubt then there is no doubt. Those that I know that are happy here, (me included) had no hesitation in packing up and making the move.

Remember that if it goes all wrong then it could be far harder to get back to the UK, than it was to come out here. You need to be absolutely confident that you are making the right decision, taking into account your own personal circumstances.

3 flights a month? Maybe on the 380 mate but on the reality fleet I'm on max yearly hrs with a lot more than 3 trips a month. Final salary pension? Is that what you call our 17.5 % lol, and yes it does rise upto 20% after 10 years. BA is a job for life, ek is a job for 10 years unless you don't mind looking like Gollum. And as the question is asked above, where do you go after ek?

Just because it's the only thing around at the moment, doesn't mean it's a good thing.:ugh:

Atis,

The biggest factor really in jumping from the Uk to DXB is whether you have a family or not. If you are single, then, why not? BUT if you have a family it gets far more complicated. We did our obligatory 10 years there but also at a time when command was a "snappy" (as I remember it) 3 years. Having excellent career progression made the decision easier at the time. Now this is not the case, so you really do need to weigh things up.
If it were me with a family, I would say unequivocally, no way. There are just too many things that affect your quality of life with a wife and kids there. Schooling is a real big challenge. The good British schools are next to impossible to get into, and others just feel like expensive bricks and mortar with a revolving door of teachers...not very good I am afraid. Plus it is an utter crap shoot whether the school you get your offspring into, and your allocated company villa are even remotely close together. Your wife could conceivably be spending the better part of her day on the roads in crazy traffic....it is nerve racking and mind numbing and zero quality of life for her.
Our kids were never particularly healthy there. This part of the world has some of the worst air quality (though there is no transparency or reporting around this). Living in air conditioning with the potential for lots of mould makes asthma a real issue for young kids. We spent a fortune on getting our units cleaned and serviced every year and our kids were on so many steroids it boggled our minds.
The weather is nice six months of the year...don't let anyone tell you differently. Once it hots up, it is just hot and solidly uncomfortable from mid-May through to mid-November. Expect to spend the majority of your time in three places - your villa, the mall, the pool. Fine for awhile but gets old quickly. You can pretty much count on spending your entire summer apart from your family when they escape the heat. Rosters and leave are not what they used to be and time out of Dubai with your family during peak leave periods has become an utter luxury as opposed to the norm.
There are many more frustrations that may or may not be an issue to you but really think about how your family would spend the better part of 10 years there.
We are glad to have had the opportunity but completely thrilled to be gone. We were diligent and saved loads and did a lot of travel. Our quality of life is so far superior now, I would never, ever dream of setting foot back in the pit.

Stay in the UK. Emirates will run you into the ground, then when you are on death's door they will kick you out of the country with a f&%# you very much.
One can not do long haul at 93 hours on the 777 and 97-98 hours on the 380 and let's not talk about the 330. No one knows what they are thinking.
If an EK pilot was to do 75 hours a month or 3 trips a month like most long haul pilots it would be a lot less burdensome, the whole experience of EK and DXB that is.
I know it is a good deal for the Ryan Air pilots and the like sort but Emirates is not a good long haul airlne. Stay in the UK

First of all scotty777! Got a date yet? Still gonna hold you to that joy ride next time i'm up north!

So do I work for a different airline to everyone else who is posting here? I have never worked 92hrs and averaging 62hrs a month for the year. I would suggest a visit to the crs bidding day. My kids are in a good British school, I pay an additional 2500dhs to top the fees up then claim back 800dhs for transport. I spend the difference on a night out in dubai and that is unfortunately easily done.

I agree with what is said about the weather, air con has its pros and cons if you keep it clean but then that's the same for your bathroom.

I have been here a mere year, I put more in my pocket than my mates with 5yrs seniority at BA. "Pension" wise it is comparable to BARP as it is only taken from year 1 long haul salary ie it never increases and with EK increasing thier contributions with increasing basic long term, little in it. Final salary is gone for us and why it is still mentioned is beyond me!

Dubai is a place you need to take with a pinch of salt, a rather large pinch of salt. I'm luck I leave the place at least 3 times a month. The mrs really likes Dubai but then we are out of the city, have a garden, safe surroundings and there are little in the way of locals around us. Speaking of locals, they are hit or miss! I've met plenty of nice ones but there is the odd one that does ruin it for them all.

What else can I say. If BA offered me a job would I take it. Yes. I wouldn't have applied otherwise. I did work out however with a mate who was one of the last taken on that he would make an additional 250k more than me over our careers due to the new "pay scale". We are of comparable age and the likes. That is a wedge of cash in anyone's books.

Oh and I'm no BA reject, I passed selection only to expire in the holdpool. Guess I'm worth as much to BA as I am to EK.

Final thought, pprune is full of either willy wavers or bitter buggers.

Fly safe.

It's no coincidence that the vast majority of new-hires in the last rush were from Ryanair - by comparison, Emirates feels like a step up (and no doubt is).

But draw your own conclusions from that fact.

Emirates is better than unemployment probably (depending on your country's largesse with unemployment benefits. lol) It's better than Ryanair perhaps, and other various bottom-feeder operators. (Although you have to factor in Dubai, which evens the scales considerably). But I would have to agree with the other posters that leaving your home country and a job there - including even a promised job in a hold pool - would be crazy at this point in time. And in the future, if trends hold. Given the lies of roster relief and relentless grinding down of layover times, allowances, etc, there is no evidence that things will ever do anything but deteriorate.

There is no sustainability for individuals at 90+ hours/month of flying. For the company - maybe. As long as they can find another tube of toothpaste to squeeze until it's empty and discard, repeat.

Pointing to 20-year employees is a farce, as the playing field 20 years ago bears no resemblance to the current one. Hell, the one 10 years ago. 5 years ago. But yes, EK does still pay for your uniform...:rolleyes:

Can you tell me where the above isn't happening and I can apply there?

Out of interest where are all the guys for the airbus coming from?

777_Scotty

Sorry it has not worked out for you and best of luck back home. I bet you're already looking forward to UK crew security ;)

How much of the initial bond do you still owe EK and are they chasing you for it?


ATIS, what hobbies do you and your family enjoy? Can you do them over here. Having a transferable life was a good indicator for us as to whether we could make life out here work.

People keep saying, what to do after EK..? Who knows. The world will be a different place whenever that time comes and I doubt I'll fly up to retirement age anyhow.

Craggenmore

Thanks mate. I came here from low cost really hoping to give this place a chance. A run in with Accommodation when they refused to move me out a flat that had sewage flowing from the aircon, and a lovely encounter with the Dubai police as a witness to a girl that was assaulted and nearly being jailed myself, really opened my eyes to the company and how ex-pats are regarded by the local police. Like I posted above the carpet can be swept from under your feet very quickly here in DXB.:\ You are a Guest and to some a quite unwelcome one at that.

Compared to that, the argument whether a yoghurt is a solid or a liquid is quite trivial lol. :ok:

Kempus

Mate your welcome to a ride in the provost anytime ( EK wouldn't let me fly it) I welcome your open and honest answers on here, it was such as shame what happened to you guys in the BA holdpool. You asked about an airline that doesn't treat you badly and work you max hrs, I can name at least one lol...Virgin... Its still in the contract for 750hrs a year max anyway and of the 10 guys I know there on the line for a good number of years, they're very happy.

Now I realise that these, "good" companies are few and far between these days. I understand the frustration working for O'Leary....however I would suggest sitting it out with a 737 command in a base of your choice (I know that's easier said than done hence why i'm here) working 5 on 4 off with little long term fatigue and waiting for the BA's and virgin's of this world might be a better idea than jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. There are others options too Thomas cook, Thompson, Monarch ,Titan, Global supply systems and I'd even say EasyJet might be a better shout than coming to the sandpit.

But in the end your situation might dictate that you have no other choice.. In that case fair enough and the best of luck to you.. Honestly. I think the suggestions of fully embracing the place and making it your home as best as you can is a great idea, and try to block out the criticism of the place. Be wise though and save the pennies and have a good think where your heading after your spell here.:ok:

This is only my 3rd post in 5 years on prune, I usually stay away as I hate the negativity. However I really wanted to let people have a good think about this move. If I had know then what I know now I wouldn't be here.:(

Good luck to you all and safe flying.:O

The key to enjoying life at EK and Dubai, I believe, is having the option to leave whenever you want to. If you move wife, kids and whole life here and are financially dependant on Emirates, then you will feel trapped when the shine wears off or you fall foul of some 'cultural' sensitivity. If you can come over for a look see and have the sense to save a bit of cash, then why not try it for a couple of years - it will certainly be an experience, it might even be a career.
I would not have given up a good job to try it but had no qualms about leaving a certain low-cost airline.

I have to say that in my year and a half here I have yet to meet a colleague who really enjoys the job. Some have few other options (S Africans, Brazilians, Zimbabweans spring to mind). Some are easily impressed by a bit of sun (Brits?), the bling or the fact that their kids are in a 'private school'. Ryanair pilots are just glad to be fed. Most justify being here in terms of the 'lifestyle' it gives them. Unfortunately, for many, that lifestyle traps them into remaining here past their sell by date.

Personally, I find long-haul fairly tedious and incompatible with my desire to live a long and healthy life. I have kicked the ar5e out of the route network, staff travel and Dubai's limited charms and am looking forward to leaving this year. I'm glad to have flown ALL over the world in some great aircraft and even happier that I won't have to do it much longer. One layover in Dhaka is really all you need.

So, no, I would not recommend EK over BA. But, on the other hand, you may want to spend the best 25 years of your life doing 900 hours a year in a wide variety of time zones while devising ever more elaborate ways to pass your free time. Takes all sorts.

Look at the time-stamp on Sittys post, 380.

He should be out of bed and sober shortly- then it will be deleted.

Sitty, face it- you have a problem.

A380... Mate, why do you let yourself get wound up by SI?

I can honestly say that having been a regular visitor to Pprune since it was started many moons ago, SI is quite possibly the strangest poster/character I have ever seen on these forums!

The sad thing is that on occasion, he does actually post some useful content in the first half of his posts only to make himself look like a complete tool 3 lines (of cocaine probably) later by having a pop at the Brits or his latest target of colonial hatred..... Incidentally SI, did you know that Pprune was set up by a Brit? (along with the airline that pays your salary BTW).

He pretends to know all and be an authority on all and dare anyone disagree, he starts to get nasty. I would suggest that this is the very type of personality that should be as far away from the flight deck as possible...... Sadly that doesn't appear to be the case.

SI, you claim you are not a whinger.... Well, this may be true, but my god you don't half moan a lot for a happy chappy! However I did particularly like one of your posts from the A380 crew rest thread..... you remember buddy, the one you (or admin) deleted.... The one where you said that Airbus agreed with you on the placement of the crew rest area. Dear god how I laughed at that statement - I can just imagine a little red telephone on your office desk ringing away at all hours with Toulouse on the other end asking for your opinion on the way their aircraft should be designed! I mean why not? You have an opinion on everything else FFS!

Do yourself a favour, pipe down, be factual and stop being so god damned rude to your colleagues!

Thank you

'Stupid is as stupid does'

Quote. Mr F. Gump

I think Sitty is in a state of depression hence his angry man act continues.

Since he espoused to everyone that paper currency is doomed and gold was your only man...the price has collapsed 20% since summer 2011.

Wrong again...at least he's consistent.

f.

What nationality does anyone reckon Sittingidly is? A guess would be American or Canadian without having done any real research into his many posts. Spells English the American way I notice using z instead of s:}


PS Just seen a financial comment that gold has further to fall:{

Unfortunately I think he is an ozmate. Maybe he never got over the whole ansett going bust thing.
My favourite SI post was the one where he said he sold his gold at a high a week after he had told everyone they were stupid if they didn't buy it and silver when gold was at $1800 and silver at $50.
At least he is an honest moron as he has never pretended to be anything other than one.

The Don

Followed a close second with the post where he said he would run down SZR naked if gold was lower 12 mos later.

I put it in my calendar...checked a year later...gold was lower....and that specific post was deleted!

LOL You can't make this up.

f.

On behalf of those of us living on SZR, thank you for sparing us... :E

The Don I think American or Australian but of Irish descent which could explain his vitriol towards Brits or perhaps his distant relative poached a rabbit off my relative's estates:confused:

SI. You're a fruitcake!!! Can you not see the wood for the trees?

Ex A380; keep the good stuff coming:ok::ok:

So MC. When do I get a tour of the estates? I'm always up for a spot of shooting! Especially lefties and reds/greenies:D:cool: