Working in the ME as a couple
 

Hi,
I could use a bit of help here.. At the moment me and my girlfriend are working for a European loco (me as FO, she in the cabin) and looking into the options of escaping the 4 sector days across the continent. We´d like to joint Qatar or Etihad provided that we both pass the hiring process. But before we make a move we´d like to get some info on the following:

-Is rostering willing and flexible enough to pair our trips up as much as possible?
-Will they allow us to live together as “just” a couple (not being married?)
-Any personal experience on the above?

Thanks!

Coltrane

If you live together and the police find out you will be fined, go to jail and be deported.
If you hold hands or kiss each other in public you will be fined, go to jail and be deported.
If you send sexy text messages to each other you will be fined, go to jail and be deported.
If you have any porn on your computer and get found out you will be fined, go to jail and be deported.
If you complain about the mosque being too loud you will be fined, go to jail and be deported.
The Middle East is as boring as bat sh*t.
And you want to leave Europe/your home country and come here? See a psychiatrist my friend.

But apart from that
 

I refer you to all of the above.

Seriously, you must consider yourselves as singles for that exercise.

Sorry to rain on your parade.

glf

Coltrane, give your head a shake!

Maybe if you live in Bahrain.
If you are considering Dubai read post # 2

Abu Dhabi is much more like the description of SkyDive6. I know several couples who cohabit without any questions being asked.

There is an understanding that Europeans and North Americans are quite likely to cohabit, and unless you are always rowing or causing a disturbance it is likely you will be left alone.

Dubai seems to be a bit stricter, but then maybe they have more instances of misbehaviour than we do in Abu Dhabi :E

technically it is illegal to cohabit with your female partner when you're not married, the level at which this enforced is varied and inconsistant...best have some sort of certiicate to present to the coppers in the unlikely event you have an encounter...as far as being rostered together I cannot say..I would doubt it at QR..Etihad might be easier for this..not sure of their policies

Ok, looks like a complicated exercise altogether.. anyway thanks for the info so far. Any personal experience would still be very much appreciated..

Why dont you just make an honest woman out of her. Marry her and please go to Cathay if you cannot bear the Euro Low cost. You will be better off in the long run . Many hear only what they want too , as they fertilize their idea . This forum is filled with the way people are treated in the Middle East. It is so different to what you are used to.

Here is something you may not have considered. So you live in sin ( as many do) . One day you are caught out ( as many are) . You go to jail and are then deported. No problem you say with "freedom" on your stunned angry mind. Only to discover that for many future jobs you require a police clearance certificate for your time spent in the UAE/Qatar . This will now reflect a criminal record and your career is F$%$&d !!! . A friend runs a contract agency and believe me " the East" will not even give you a sniff with a criminal record ( no matter how good your explanation). You will be treated like someone who has an accident/incident record ( no matter how good the explanation)

As I say many many do live in sin here , but its russian roulette.

As for Cathay , it may take longer to get what you want ( F/O , Capt etc) , but long term it appears more sustainable.

As far as EY is concerned:

Rostering won't do much. You may request one trip per month and there is no guarantee whatsoever.
Living as a couple, well in cabin crew accomodation forget about it. In your place, nobody cares in AUH.

For long term prospect, go to Cathay, forget about Middle east QR, EY or EK, it makes no difference at the end, management looks at short term if not very short term, thus so do we.

You must have a job and she must have a job if you aren't married, otherwise she will have to go every month outside the country to renew her visa, she won't be able to drive without local licence without residence permit, most of the local formalities require a residence permit.

You are absolutely right to ask, but do yourselves a favor and go to Asia instead.
In Middle east, they pretend to have a culture and heritage.... There is no buildings which is older than 1970, and hospitality culture is just a joke.
The curtain looks nice but, one , is far from nice, and second as soon as you open it slightly, what you see is just disgusting.

The people who give you advice here have been trapped before you. It always looks nice, and remains as such for a short while, the time for you to settle in, to enjoy the mild temperature in you are lucky enough not to arrive during summer and/or ramadan. You will enjoy the restaurants, the service, the expat life, and sooner or later you will realize that your dream life is based on extorsion, slavery, greed, and the only fact that there is no limit in human trade.
If you can live with no mercy or compassion for the people you work with or who work for you, if you can survive in a cultural no man's land, in a place where justice isn't for you, where your life has less value than a palm tree, in a place where a visit to a mall is the only excitment of the day, then Yes, this place is for you.
A few guys love it here, they made their choice, but the turnover rate says by itself that there are only a few that can bear this.

This being said: Good Luck and do your home work before you make any lifetime decision. There is hardly any turning back, and if you do turn back, it will cost you a lot, personnaly and financially.

Top explanation!

Howdy! I'm just another towelhead, right? I donno Englishhh, salamo alykum brotherrrr?!

I'll just try to repeat to you one more time and hopefully hopefully you might get it this time...

The poster has asked about living with his girlfriend while working for either Qatar Airways or Etihad, and he has definitely not asked for the crime statistics in Bahrain or Gulf Air!

And lastly, I ask of' you nicely to refrain yourself from insulting other people.

you sound like a piece of work Skydive... wow .

It sound like you snapped. I did just read an article about a couple at a resturant were arrested for kissing good bye.

Why don't you just man up and marry the girl? Will make you life alot easier.:ok:

To be fair, there are certain parts of the ME that are much more conservative than other parts. I've lived and traveled all over the ME for about 15 years, and consider Bahrain and Dubai to be more "liberal".

Is it the best place to live? I don't thinks so.

Is it easy to live in the ME? It has it's challenges, and when you come from a European or Western nation then I have to say that it is certainly more difficult. When you're originally from the ME or from certain parts of Africa or Asia, it's different. It may not be as difficult for those people, but again it all really depends on your origin and the life you are used to living.

Individuals that come from countries that have a proper legal system, proper freedom of religion...will always find it more difficult.

However, and based on my experience...some of the things mentioned by SkyDive6 are true. There are some countries and cities that are a little more "lax" (I honestly don't even know if that's the right term), but in the end..it's fair to say that when you start to think about whether you want to live in the ME, it's risky business. In the end, I hope any decision that is made is for ones benefit and everyone that deserves to live a comfortable life, is able to do so.

Just my two cents.

What no one has asked you is the colour of your skin.

Not important, you think? If it's pink, you'll probably be allowed to cohabit on a 'don't tell and we won't ask' basis - UNTIL you fall foul of the law in any way or bring attention to yourself in any way. Then all bets are off.

However, if you or your girlfriend doesn't have pink skin, you or she stand a very high risk from Day One of being thrown into jail and quite possibly suffering a caning before being deported.

Don't believe me? Wait for the posts to follow that I can assure you will confirm what I've just said.

Makes no sense in this day and age? Who said it has to make sense. It's the Middle East.

Basically what some of the guys saying here is we are running 6 countries based on stone-age laws, and citizens of these 6 nations are incapable of obtaining a Degree from the West (e.g. UK) and they are incapable of working in big organization (e.g. Barclays bank for 1 year) and have rape in their mind, and always always thieving.. and some other disgusting statements...

Yes that is exactly what we are doing here in the Middle East.

Do not trust people like me, who were born and raised in middle east who received western education and worked for some western organizations, and its definitely not in our interest to keep non-GCC citizens in our Countries because we do not realize the Oil is running out.

Thank you. I just opened my eyes and now I feel very sorry for myself for living here.

bagel_dancer welcome to my fan club. Please scroll up to see your fellow mates. The fellow mates who degrade the GCC, my Country, it's citizens and myself. I just said what I believed about GCC and I went offline! To come back and see that I'm being trashed! Yeah, thanks for the freedom of speech!

Just answer the original poster inquiry or the other posts why, just why bother yourself with me?

Next please..

Whoa! People are tripping over themselves trying to write something negative about the ME! They don't even have time to read what the original poster is writing before they start!
Any other view is unacceptable, and if somebody dare to go against the stream they are shot down immediately!

Anyway, born and raised in the Middle East does not in any way imply that the gentleman is of Arab origin.
Much in the same way that a racist statement here does not necessarily mean the poster is an Aussie.

What Skydive6 wrote is pretty much how it works in most ME countries. The locals are not really concerned about what we do, as long as we don't do it in their faces. Many, if not most of the incidents referred to in post # 2 happened to expat muslim couples. When was the last time a westerner got fined for drinking in a licenced resturant?

Living together without being married? Not a good idea. It may work for years, but all it takes is for your neighbour to report you and you may find yourself in trouble. Do the right thing by her, mate!

Somebody owes Skydive6 an apology.

Coltrane, bottom line is it is doable, but you have to remember living together when not married is against the law. I am not 100% sure, but I think it is even against the law for men and women to share if you were just friends and no s€x was involved.

You will probably be OK but will likely not get any support from the company if you get locked up over it. I did it when I first moved out here with no trouble, but I also know someone who has been locked up and deported over it. I have never lived in Qatar, but it seems the UAE is more liberal (though I stand to be corrected) - but "caveat emptor".

As far as rosters are concerned, for once I agree with Chandler Bing - no likely help there from Etihad! Also I believe Etihad's accommodation policy is that a couple working for the company share the same accommodation can only claim one allowance. Not sure if it is enforced and maybe if you weren't married you might slide past - but my wife considered a job with EY and was told at interview she would not be entitled to the allowance because I already had it.

Have you considered Al Jaber (Airbus) or Royal Jet (BBJ) in Abu Dhabi? Perhaps possible you might get rostered with your partner at one of those smaller VIP outfits and perhaps their accommodation policies are more flexible.

Good luck.

Right, i've trimmed the worst of the flame baiting. Please be civilised with any replies. If the thread continues to degenerate, it will be closed.

EGGW

You are wrong, mate. Sharia is not the legal system in all Islamic countries. This is not Somalia. When was the last time you saw somebody get stoned (with real rocks;)) in Dubai? Or got their hands chopped off?

There is a peculiar mix of Sharia and common law in force. It doesn't make it any easier.

British man faces six months in Dubai jail for making offensive gesture at Iraqi student | Mail Online

does this sound familiar....?

No, should it? Don't flip the bird to anyone in the ME, it will provoke a reaction. Overreaction in this case, but he made his own bed and have to sleep in it for a while.
What else? Don't have sex in public and don't french kiss in front of locals. They are not that easy to overlook.

Listen, this is not home. Different rules and regs apply. If you don't realize this, then you are clearly in the wrong place.

Edit because I need to correct myself. A Briton flipping the bird does sound familiar.

Thank you all, quite a bit of useful information here and there. Frankly I'd prefer Asia over the ME, but according to what's posted here, there wont be much hiring going on at CX any time soon. Also I'm a bit light on hours (2500TT with no PIC time) and apart from CX there are not a lot of opportunities in Asia as a FO or SO I'm affraid.

With that in mind the ME looked like a good spot to get a wide body rating and at the same time work together with my girl, but if rostering is not willing to help and we're not able to live together in a normal way, I guess the best is to wait it out here, get some command time and try something else later..

Thanks anyway!!

Here is your answer Anti-Social Behaviour Order - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for your efforts

so it sounds like that if you are from a "Normal " place you will get very frustrated at the the way they do business in their back yard. After all it is their home.
With that point out there why the crap would you be here? the weather? the entertainment? the grace and efficiency at which things get done? NO the MONEY.
Keep your head down, your hands in your pockets and collect the cash and run when it is over. Remember it is NOT your Home. Don't try to make it like your home. Just Like all the Muslims that move to other country's should not try to make their new home like the old. we all have a way of life, just not the same way.

How many hedge fund managers works as pilots in the ME?

I second what Miles says, but I would like to add something; Everything he says is applicable if you choose to uproot your family and move anywhere in the world. Korea, China, Hong Kong, Singapore, India, ME, it doesn't matter.

Traffic sucks, schools cost money, wife can't usually get a job, single income, no job-no visa, bureaucracy, don't f@ck on the beach, etc. You need to consider everything wherever you choose to relocate. It also matter where you come from, because, surprise, not all pilots have a pink complexion! Shocking, but true!

Finally; some people can never adjust to a life outside their own country. That is just the way it is.

SkyDive6...

You're misrepresenting the situation with your post#31, as it has definitely NOT been proved that Mr Andrews made an offensive gesture to Mr Rasheed (the student) as alleged by Mr Rasheed, as follows:

Further, from your quoted source (if you bothered to read that whole article):


Therefore, the burden of proof for the alleged ASBO against Mr Andrews remains (under a normal judicial system) with the Mr Rasheed (the student). Since Mr Rasheed (the applicant) has failed to appear in court to give evidence, the magistrate or whatever should have dismissed the charges against Mr Andrews.

Justice delayed is justice denied SkyDive6, even under the so-called legal system that you seem so intent on defending on the basis of what clearly appears to be a presumption of 'guilty until proved innocent'. :ugh:

SkyDive6, I've also been on the receiving end of the so-called legal system of another neighbouring Gulf State, and fortunately was able to prove my innocence against three trumped-up complaints from locals, but it wasn't fun on the way through, believe me!

ManaAdaSystem said:

No **** Sherlock.........do you want to try to tell that to all the Islamic immigrants living in UK, France, Australia, wherever? :yuk:

Bruce, do you expect a normal and polite answer to your racist statement? Why don't you SIUYA!

Mods, please!

ManaAdaSystem...

Remember, though it was YOU that previously said:

I'm merely repeating what you're saying from another perspective ManaAdaSystem. But that all seems to be too much for you to understand, and as you obviously don't like any perspective that opposes your own, you're now calling for the mods. :ugh:

Pretty typical response to the commonly expressed response to detractors of the Gulf here on PPRuNe who are reminded 'If you don't like it here then go'.

After 5 years in the place, I decided that I didn't, so I DID go, thank goodness. :8

CASE CLOSED ManaAdaSystem..........don't bother responding.

Oh, but I will. You put ALL Islamic immigrants worldwide in the same barf bag, and say it just another perspective?

Yup mana pretty much has to work both ways. If we come to the gulf and don't like it..we can leave. Same goes for any Muslim immigrant to the west. If you don't like our policies/country..then feel free to leave, just don't expect us to change our society/laws for you.

Just correcting one little statement
 

In the UK the laws; rules; and norms are being changed for the immigrants, and the detrament of the locals.

In general the rules in ME are not being bent to facilitate foreigners, but pehaps to ensure profitability of local investment.

I believe that we all should respect and obey, the local rules and laws, regardless of the country.

If a Brit does not like the rules in ME they should go home, and if a Muslim (for lack of a better generic term) does not like French or British rules then go home.

qed

glf

It's not like I disagree, but this discussion doesn't belong on PPRUNE!

REALLY? You could have fooled me! :8

Says who? :8

Waiting for your response, because we're all well aware ManaAdaSystem that you won't be able to resist responding, will you?? :8

The five master suppression techniques are:

-Making Invisible

-Ridiculing

-Withholding Information

-Damned If You Do And Damned If You Don't

-Heaping Blame and Putting to Shame

MANA you are a freaken DORK. but humorous to watch flail about

You are one of the funniest characters from pprune. Really clever and fine sense of humor. Keep up the good work. I'm your fan!:ok:

Had to share this one. Reading these newspapers in this part of the world is entertaining to me.

I know it's regarding "general workers " in UAE but what "right" do we really have?? WTF!

The right to be a worker

EMPLOYEES or workers in the UAE have the right not to divulge their identity to anyone unless they are made sure of his/her authority.

In clearing their documents, employees or workers in the UAE must only deal with official personnel.

These and more are in the "pamphlets" the Philippine Embassy received from the interior and labour ministries two weeks ago, copies of which shall be distributed to all Filipinos - conservative estimates according to Minister and Consul General Adelio Angelito Cruz is at 400,000 - across the country.

The pamphlets, a copy of which was forwarded to The Gulf Today on Sunday evening, list down eight "labour rights" as well as 13 "labour duties" of all expatriate workers in the UAE.

These rights and duties are embodied in "Article 40 of the Constitution," carrying the statement: "Foreigners in the UAE enjoy rights and freedom as prescribed by the applicable International Constitutions, Treaties or Conventions that the UAE is a party in and in return, they also have duties."

"We will be distributing copies so that all Filipinos will know of their rights and their duties towards their employers and to our host government," Cruz said, when interviewed over the telephone, on Monday.

"I am grateful that the Ministry of Interior and Ministry of Labour (MoL) gave us copies of these pamphlets on the rights and obligations of all expatriate workers in the UAE," Cruz added, asking this reporter if what was given her was in Filipino, the national language of the Philippines.

"What they did is commendable," he said, also saying that aside from Filipino, what he knows is that the document released by the MoL, is in five other languages as well.

"It shows they are pro-active in ensuring the welfare of all expatriate workers," he also said, citing instances when Filipino workers seek assistance from the two Philippine diplomatic missions or from the two Philippine Overseas Labour Offices in Abu Dhabi and Dubai, regarding employers, subtracting from their salaries fees for their residence and employment visas, when these should be shouldered by the latter.

"I hope our compatriots carry with them their copies or know these rights and duties by heart so that they will not be misled," Cruz stated.

The senior official's statement was so, as this reporter brought up cases lodged at the Dubai Courts wherein Filipinas became victims of impersonation or those instances when men, impersonating people with authority, coerced the victims to produce their identification or ATM cards, which sometimes led to sexual harassment or rape.

Meanwhile, it is also expressed in the document that as expatriate workers are protected by the law, they should be first and foremost legal residents of the country: "As a start and before talking about any rights or duties prescribed by the UAE Constitution and Laws, the labourer should be legally staying in the country in accordance with the applicable laws."

"The violation of such laws makes the labourer not only subject to legal penalties but to be exploited by others as well due to his illegal stay resulting in his loss of rights granted by the country."

Apart from the right of expatriate workers having the right not to divulge their identity to anyone unless they are made sure of his authority, their seven other rights are:

* The right to be aware of all their rights set forth in the employment contract signed with the employer as the contract is binding to both parties. No excuse for anyone ignoring the contract terms and conditions once signed by them.
( only on paper! - it's a one way street here :mad:)
( Where is my Annual Leave- Annual Leave Ticket to my home town-my overtime pay-call out pay for offdays I worked? Pay DEWA bills is not part of my employment contract! )

* The right to practice religious rites and freedom of belief, and the right not to hurt dignity.
( may I practice judaism and be a free believer in .....? )

* The right not to be subjected to any form of humiliation or any act resulting in physical injury as the law grants them the right to complain and report (as the case may be) against any person committing such crimes.

* The right to speak in their native tongue, assisted by an interpreter, in cases of testimonies before competent authorities.

* The right not to sign on any of their declarations before competent security or judicial authorities, unless fully read or perused by them.


* The right to know the accusations against them, the right to keep silent and the right to defend themselves.

( What happened to the guys from the MEL and MAN case??? )

* The right to seek legal assistance pursuant to the estimation of the police and other investigating authorities.

Aside from the duty of expatriate workers in clearing their documents only with pertinent authorities, their 12 other duties are:

* The duty to respect UAE traditions, conventions and heritage.

* The duty to know that they are subject to all applicable rules and regulations or laws.

* The duty to respect the rights of others, that they must neither resort to humiliation nor offend religious beliefs. Offending Islam and other religions is a crime resulting in detention or the payment of fines.

( is it legal to offend my religion? Does respect not work in both directions?? )

* The duty to exhaust all legal means to resolve labour disputes since resorting to labour strikes or other similar forms of labour unrest is strictly prohibited.

(- Sorry to say it but it's like fighting a war without weapons....useless to have rights then WTF!:mad: )

* The duty not to cause any damage to their workplace either intentionally or by way of negligence.

* The duty not to violate UAE laws and in no circumstances abstain from accepting work in order to hide themselves from authorities which may lead to exploitation by others.

_____

What a joke?! but hey it made my day :D :}

SUMMARY:
RIGHT:
1)WORK TO MAKE RECORD PROFIT DISREGARDING ALL RULES AND LAWS
2) IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT LEAVE

DUTY:
1) BE HAPPY YOU HAVE A JOB
2) SHUT UP


Source: :: Daily News with The Gulf Today on GoDubai, Middle East, Dubai, UAE Online News::

Please do take EVERYTHING in consideration before you come to this part of the world do not give up all the normal things of life for a bigger piece of iron....not worth it. Be warned!