777 or Airbus
 

Just got the email saying Congratulations on an Airbus ground school at EK. Was really hoping for 777 as the destinations and schedules sound better.. Is life on the airbus really tough? Any opinions appreciated..Could help make my decision a little easier.
Thanks

Avoid avoid avoid!!!! At all costs. Unless of course it is the Airbus "380" :p Then it's the best job around! However, ask for the 777 instead, you may get lucky. Good luck :ok:

Airbus or 777
 

Destinations on 777 are better but lots of hours. Airbus limited but less hours.

Whatever you get you'll be ok

Thanks !!
 

Really appreciate your input...Was hoping I wasnt going to get 100 emails BLASTING me from the pprune EK haters for contemplating the move over there!:D

Things are in place that will change things on all fleets but the airbus will see the most. Also things always change with the wind.

Take the Airbus , you may end up on the 380 within a year or you could be looking at the 350 before you know it.

Pays the same. This year Airbus got more vacation than the 777, next year. well that would be after 2 wind changes

Hold out for the B777.... Airbus side is complete crap. Schedules are RIDICULOUSLY BAD!! :{

Airbus side is brutal.
''Take the Airbus , you may end up on the 380 within a year or you could be looking at the 350 before you know it.''

There is absolutely ZERO possibility you would end up on the A380 within a year. NONE< NADDA< ZERO>AINT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!! That assertion is either meant as a joke or downright insane. I won't even get into the EK flight time requirements or heavy jet requirements. It is deceitful to pretend there is a possibility for a new joiner to go onto the A380, a year after their arrival......... even taking into account how things change here each day.

STAY away from the Airbus fleet if you can. Regardless of the 'probable' arrival of the A350 in 2014 (which apparently is now in doubt according to TC, who is the big cheese when it comes to things like aircraft procurement).

Airbus sucks at EK for more reasons than I wish to explain.

ps. yeah you are nuts to come here, haha.

How about being grateful to have a job, you are luckier than a lot of guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well how about my company being grateful for having experienced pilots flying their aircraft? How about a certain level of respect for our professionalism, which far exceeds each and every Managers abilities and knowledge when it comes to THEIR JOBS!!!

Being grateful for having a job?? You got to be kidding me! It is people like YOU who have destroyed this profession.

Thanks for that wonderful and insightful post, you putz.

Honestly, being grateful for having a JOB, when most of us have spent at least 20 years working towards being good pilots and good managers? You might be a simpleton, a company stooge or just someone who knows NOTHING about this job, but in any event, you might want to educate yourself after you delete that post.

Man, this world is full of people who have no excuse for being so uneducated, boggles my mind sometimes.

Hi lchristler,

Just want to wish you good luck with your choice.

Please read and re-read the many relevant EK posts and let us (and other potential recruits) know your thoughts after you have been here a while.

I hope that you won't be disappointed.

Safe flying.

Let me put it this way: I'm on the Boeing right now. If I were transferred to the Airbus for some reason, I'd quit.

Simple as that.

What experience do you currently have? If you have Airbus time you will likely get Airbus. Boeing time will yield the 777.

If you have the choice, pick the 777 fleet if you want to fly back to the States every now and then. Airbus will put you mainly in Middle East/India, Africa and some Europe.

direct hire FO 380 2011, mensa you are quick to over react, also a move underway to change roster pattens to help A330 , oh forgot you did not get that memo

Don't do it!
 

You will regret accepting an Airbus co-pilot position with Emirates.

The rosters and destinations are miserable. What's left of the decent layover trips are mysteriously "pre-assigned" so bidding means precious little, especially for non-management/non-training pilots. Your assigned trips are even poached because of "training requirements", so understand you are accepting the worst seat in the company now that the A310 has been parked.

When the A350's arrive they will likely migrate 777 skippers over to them as they are "proven" commanders, and you will be sitting on an ever dwindling, increasingly miserable fleet. 777 fo's will then get their upgrade, and you will wonder why you didn't listen to folks like Menso Boy as you ply the airways between Dubai and India (in the wee hours of the morning).

If you are stubborn enough to disregard the warnings you have read in other threads, and are determined to come to EK, hold out for a 777 slot. They'll call you back (especially since they've already paid your way to/from Dubai for the interview), and mysteriously one will appear as EK is desperate for bodies. The only need for 330 f/o's is to replace those Airbus fo's transferring to the right seat of the 380 (beginning cadets can easily fill these empty seats).

Don't be a pushover as this is the only time you will be able to negotiate for anything during your time at Emirates. Insist on the 777 slot, and play hard to get if it's not offered immediately. My guess is you'll be much happier if you do.

SHR

I'm currently on the 330 and will say this, you would be f...ing stupid to come here on the 330 fleet. As soon as we come off the long haul (Australia, starting with MEL in August) we will have nothing left. You will live life with 8-9 days off for a very long time. As 330 only (which you will be for at least a year) you will hate life. If my schedule goes back to what it was when I was in that position, I will quit. Hold out and don't except the job if they won't change you off the bus. You will be happier unemployed. Yes, the airbus is that bad!!! Now, on a bright note, not to be mean towards the Boeing guys, but I think everyone will agree that the guys on the bus are much more laid back and relaxed, especially in the training ranks. Note: the last sentence is an opinion, everything else is fact!

Icristler,

Congrats on the job! Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the assesments. I have an interview in about two weeks and would really appreciate your intel, since the whole recruitment process has changed somewhat.

I have P1 time on A320 and a good amount of P2 time on B767+DC10, which fleet would I be considered for?

Thanks and congrats again!

OW

By "proven" you mean having the ability to turn every destination that the Airbus previously went to without any problems into a potential fu**up. Damascus, Addis.........

Icristler, welcome to EK. Most of what has been said about Airbus rostering is sadly true. The pilots on that fleet make up for most of that though........as the quote above shows.

"Proven" Commanders and such...
 

Some clarification. All I intended to convey is that the company will more likely wish to transition an established (tenured) Captain over to a new airframe (the New Flagship of the Fleet mindset), and thus avoid the additional risks/costs/time required to upgrade an f.o.

For what it is worth, I don't believe there has been a transition training problem for Airbus Captains jumping over to the Boeing, so why not Boeing to Bus? Not so for the f.o. upgrade failure rate on the Airbus of late...

As to matters of personality and cockpit atmosphere, these things are intangibles that will ultimately matter little each month when you receive your roster assignments, and even less when you contemplate your seemingly terminal rank of Airbus co-pilot come each payday.

Jump on in... the water really is fine... but don't say you haven't been warned.

We eagerly await you here in Pilot Heaven....:E

SHR

But what happens when the 380 takes all the "nice" destinations and the 350 starts to replace the classic 777 and the 330/340? With the command requirements as they are now, would you still want to be on the 777 then? This will be the case for a new joiner now when command comes round right?

To try and pick a fleet here requires a larger crystal ball than is available on pprune I am afraid.

Good news is you will be treated the same and become just as tired on both fleets.

The Don

Just my 'Tuppence' worth......

We have approximately 20(ish) more 777's arriving over the next couple of years with several older ones being returned, so probably a net increase of 8-10 aircraft!

In around 4 years time, we will start taking delivery of between 70-120 (if options are taken) A350's, not to mention the 50 A380's that remain to be delivered. Despite the nonsense above, the NEW Airbus WILL be crewed by CURRENT AIRBUS pilots. If this means that an A330/40 F/O has to go RHS in it for 6 months before upgrade, this is how we will fill the left hand seat, and moreover the seat will initially be filled by CURRENT AIRBUS Captains, which will obviously leave a big deficit of skippers on the Airbus 'Classic', just right for A330 F/O's to fill.

You do the maths, its not rocket science to figure out that commands will dry up on the 777, and will suddenly explode on the Bus at about the same time as you qualify for upgrade!

Yes the routes are sh1t on the Bus currently, but you must understand that things change and it will certainly be swings and roundabouts..... 6-7 years ago, the 777 guys were moaning about their routes and time to upgrade, now its the Bus' turn. Soon enough, it will be the Boeing again!

Just think about it a little more deeply than 'what are the rosters like'.... Things change buddy, you need to look further ahead!

Good luck with your decision.

Your deep thinking is more of a wishful one ... 350ies in 4 years, almost satyrical.

But back to the thread. Whatever equipment is irrelevant. If you really need to come, take whatever comes up, you'll hate it both ways very soon. If the company has to reshuffle pilots in the future, they will do it their way and it will make no difference if you're A or B qualified, they'll simply take the cheaper option at that time. Sorry Airbus lovers, but anyone can handle the stick within minutes, it's not rocket science.

As you see, some people are just born to complain. Dont worry. Congratulations with the job. I am on the airbus for 10 years. Thinks change around here.

The people whining and moaning cant manage their expectations very well. Dont expect favors or gifts from EK. Its a job. Do it safe and well. Stay out of trouble. If you dont like it after a while. , use it as a stepping stone..

Why's that Pool?

Do you know something Airbus or EK don't? If you are aware of a major technical reason that the A350 won't or cant fly in 2013, then I suggest you impart your wisdom forthwith to the manufacturer and the airline in order that they amend their plans accordingly........

Who knows (not you I hasten to add), maybe it will be delayed a little, but one thing's for certain, there WILL be more AIRBUSES arriving over the next few years than Boeings.....Even if they are just the 50 A380's......No crystal ball, no wishful thinking (I really don't give a stuff what I fly, the money's the same!), and no bullsh1t............... Just FACT! Something that appears to be a bit thin on the ground on occasions here at Pprune:ugh:

Now we're talking....
 

For the benefit of the original poster, let's return to the original question, should I ask for a Boeing class????

Shame on you guys implying a guy should take a job, particularly this job, with hopes for how it is going to get better in the future when some event or other takes place.

Instead, look at the track record for broken promises/contracts, and double-standards of behavior, and any new joiner had best sign on for the job he wants for the long-term, not the one he thinks will come around because of fair play and the changing winds of fortune....

Yeah things will change around here... but for the better??? :=

Tell 'em it's Boeing or I'm not going.

SHR

Airbus or Boeing? You will be screwed anyway mate... Stay away from EK , don't bite the bait! You will regret it big time!

Easy Mensa......people have different circumstances and coming to Ek for some is a blessing ! (very hard for lot of whingers in EK to believe !) The fact that some of us complain whilst we are here should not give us grounds to chid somebody who wants to make their way here due to their circumstances. The nuts and bolts of it is there are actually people out there who need jobs and EK is hiring, go figure.

......meanwhile back at the ranch, for now B777 has good routes but at the end of the day it's just a job, hotel bed, toilet, same piece of concrete you land on !:cool:

Welcome on board whether B777 or Airbus.......we are all soldiers of the same struggle:ok:

For what it might be worth, I am a long time (which in EK is 10 years +) EK Captain. I would reiterate what has been said above; should EK give you any sort of "choice" or should you be able to "negotiate" a deal, I would highly suggest the choice would be the 777.

Irrespective, in any case it is obvious you are either oblivious to what is happening in this company or are so desperate to have a job you are coming to EK/Dubai in spite of the well documented issues on this site. I do not walk in your shoes so I would never allow myself to be one to judge your decision. If you are so desperate you feel you need this job/this place; I commend you on your decision.

What I can say is......myself and my wife were in HQ the other day and saw 4 obvious new-hires going through "the process" (nice new suits, bad haircuts, cheesy flight bags, big watches, optimistic yet somewhat nervous banter). We both looked at each other, shook our heads, and just smiled (and believe me, it was not the "aren't these guys clever coming to Emirates" kind of smile). You guys were warned, you made your beds, you knew beforehand..............

While I do listen and try to understand the complaints expressed by the majority of the F/O's I have flown with over the past 5 years,.......I have no empathy for ANYONE who has come to this company since 2005 and has any bitches/complains about anything this outfit has done since they arrived. Every single issue currently occurring within EK was well discussed/well documented over the past 4 years. Those of you complaining now are fools.

My time here is in "countdown" mode. We have used this place to our advantage and we experienced the best of times at EK. I cannot express strongly enough how we cannot wait (literally counting the weeks) until we can leave with the limited "extras" EK offer (staff travel) and leave this cesspool.

All the best and welcome to Emirates!

Dune

You want to look where the expansion will be 4 to 6 years from now, not what the rosters are like NOW!

I've seen the cycle several times... Joining on a fleet which has "better" rosters now will be "bad" rosters in 4 to 6 years. Would stay away from the B, except if you only plan on staying your 3 years.

And... if you think you're an astronaut, go B, you'll feel at home!

Rumours are that Boeing is close to announcing the B777-300ERX, which will have 200LR range but carry the same or more than the 300ER. This is largely at EKs request and if it happens, we will no doubt place a big order.

I would hang out for the B777-300ERXXX it has the range on the 200LR, can carry the load of the 300, but has an extra special crew rest facility. Defo gonna cause a happy ending to all Boeing orders from now on. Rumour has it that EK will fit said crew rest in the rear!!!! Now that will bring a tear to the eye.

You read it in PPRUNE first.

The Don.

What is it about MAC owners and boeing pilots?

Dunno. What?

halas
:}

Dear Oblaaspop

Some poor chap asks what fleet to join. You propose fleet of aircraft that exists on shiny folders and that's pretty much it. You want facts, show me a prototype of a crosssection or a wing -> zilch. Therefore advising him to join that fleet is .... (chose your own word as you seem to be somewhat touchy).

The Wiz reflected above what I have also heard and that T7 flies nicely and has proven its worth. That's for facts, isn't it? It does 351t now and the tires and engine performance allow 374t (as the 345) this afternoon, just a matter of a few dirhams. Between a flying 777ERX and a drawing of a 350X there is an universe.

Now to guesswork:
This new B has the performance to push the 350X to a very much more distant first flight, as it will now have to match something already on the pitch. I guess this is not an easy task. My take is that a 777ERX will dominate the 350 to 450 pax ULR pitch for quite some time, taking a lot of intended orders away from the 350X initially,even from EK. At a later stage it might well replace the T7, but it will most probably not be in your 4 years.

Take Boeing if you have the option or can force the issue and forget about trying to predict things 4 or 5 years down the road.

Historically Airbus has not delivered on time (Boeing too I might add) but the big difference is that Airbus often doesn't live up to it's claims regarding aircraft performance. Take the A345 as a prime example, and in part consider the deferred A380 aircraft too.

Emirates is very good at negotiating with Airbus and Boeing because they place large orders for aircraft and they fly a large number from each manufacturer. EK bargains from a position of power but in order to maintain that advantage they must maintain the relative numbers of each aircraft type.

Emirates is also very good at determining which type is best suited for its operations and in my time here, Boeing has outperformed Airbus by a wide margin. I suspect this trend will continue although that is pure conjecture.

Emirates # 1 rule for its operation, is to make as much money as possible and since Boeing is clearly more economical, this leads me to believe that Boeing will continue to be the work-horse of this airline. If this remains true, then upgrades, lifestyle, route structure, and destinations on the Boeing will continue to be more desirable than on the Airbus fleet.

One other factor is that there are 4 types of Airbus and only one type presently allows for upgrade. This causes complications and requires proper planning and a strict adherence to seniority, in order NOT to disadvantage pilots who through no fault of their own, find themselves on a particular Airbus type. It costs the company money to transfer pilots back and forth on types, even taking into account CCQ's, so inevitably the company chooses the most cost-effective upgrade policies, which often has little to do with seniority.

Consider History when making your decision. Yes, things have gone in cycles but for certain, Boeing pilots have had 'on average', much better skeds and lifestyles as compared to Airbus pilots.

Consider what has occured, what is occuring (not the Emirates PR machine in action), and not the predictable defence of any particular fleet by its respective pilots and you should agree that Boeing continues to be a better option at EK.

ps. I enjoy Airbus, love flying the damn things but gotta be realistic.
pps. In the past.... which fleet choice was rarely a concern as this job was good for all pilots here.

Pool, I think you're missing my point?

The company has placed FIRM orders for 70 A350's plus options on 50 more for delivery from 2014. The 777ERX 'may' exist in someones mind but will be many years away from being delivered (look at timeline of B748 production), and even if EK want some tomorrow... Boeing doesn't have any spare production slots for a very long way into the future. These my friend are whats known as FACTS.

Your position is based on nothing more than a 'hunch' or a 'feeling' or the age old Boeing is better than Airbus diatribe, unless of course YOU can come up with some HARD evidence to back up YOUR claims.... I don't know, maybe a drawing of a wing box cross-section broken in half perhaps...(look on the Boeing 787 website, you may find one there):E

Incidentally, the A350 is not and has never been aimed at competing with the B777, it is a SUB 300 seat aircraft to replace the A330/A340 and to compete directly with the B787 (which incidentally is gonna be over 2 years late)!

BTW I see you have 'conveniently' forgotten to acknowledge the small matter of the 50 more A380's left to be delivered.... Selective reading no doubt, a bit like my Nan's selective hearing I guess?

Get YOUR facts straight.

Yeah, I might get you wrong, so be it, dear Oblaaspop.

The way I see it is that the 777ERX is almost the same aircraft that actually takes off daily, only recertificated to higher weights, maybe some structural alightenings.

Another way we experienced "firm" order treatment from EK, is that when another aircraft outperforms the ordered one on the field, EK is fast to cancel orders (346).

Make your own assessment, but I concur with Mensa, for quite some time the daily displayed performance talks Boeing and if we want to give advice to newbees (apart from better staying away from EK), we might give the adequate one.

Take a chill pill

777 erx is a ways off, they are working on a new winglet just to mention one thing. EIS 350 is 2013 and EK planned on 2014 allowing Airbus to screw up a bit . Looks to me EK is putting pressure on boeing before they confirm the 50 options of the 350.

EK looks like its going to be 2/3 Airbus and 1/3 Boeing, as mentioned, you cant plan on anything, boeing good today bad tomorow.

On second thought....
 

Lchristler..

Now that you've heard the good, bad, and ugly, maybe the best advice is this, DON"T COME HERE until you get a chance to see what the puppet masters have in store for the pilot group.

Specifically, wait and see what happens to salary/profit share/flight pay during the yearly compensation review before you commit to a job here.

If you have to come NOW, leave your family behind, see what happens to our compensation package, and if you don't like it, bail before your PPC when your bond becomes binding.

By no means sell cars, home(s), and commit to this job until you put your boots on the ground and give it a good sniff test. Only then should you consider a more definite type of move.

Ultimately, it's not about which fleet you are on (though Boeing seems to be better at this time), it's about whether you can tolerate being treated like a second/third class citizen on a regular basis.

If you enjoy feeling marginalized, dismissed, and expendable, this place is for you. This is not an airline job in the sense a proper airline pilot understands the profession, it's a whole different environment.

As I said before, jump in, the water is fine... just don't complain you weren't warned.

SHR

It is so obvious that the Boeing fleet IS much better off and WILL be much better off for the foreseeable future, but that should be the LEAST of your worries. EK is not a good choice irrespective of fleets, but the Boeing vs Airbus question respectively equates to Bad vs Appalling.

If you could see my April Airbus sked, you would definitely agree that it couldn't get any worse.

In a nutshell.
-a few Reserve Days allocated at the whim of Rostering
-over 135 Duty hours (doesn't take into account the plus 1 hour before duty time when we are already at work, nor does it include the post chocks-on 1 hour at work) So add another 20 hours to that INSANE roster
-close to max flight hours with only ONE layover, which is less than 23 hours
-3 Variation Flights (approved extensions to the normal maximum flight time limitations),
- Cat B* or Cat C airports
-NO european, OZ, USA, or Canada flights whatsoever.
-7 DAYS OFF IN TOTAL ! Several rest days yes.

If anyone chooses to come to EK, they are either mis-informed, dillusional or so desparate that although they ''MIGHT'' understand the consequences they have accepted the life-altering and life-reducing conditions here.


Either way, the vast majority of new-joiner pilots, will regret their decision to take a chance at EK, more than any past decision in their life.

For F**K sake Mensa are any of your posts less than 5 chapters long? The FCOM's pale when compared to your repeditive verbage.

Dear Jake Bauer (aka OJGuilty),

If you don't like my posts then don't read them!

(Edited to reduce verbiage)