EK March Roster...The best is yet to come.
 

Got my March roster :mad: Heard from some guys who do their PPC that they are being told it will get much worst before it gets better... BLA BLA BLA! Plus HR is telling us that if we are not happy we can pack our bags and leave:ugh:

How are your rosters?

I have to admit it's a pretty good roster for me.

I have loads of days off and one major trip I bid for. Mind you I'm working my butt off when I'm working. Anyhow it makes up for a ****e roster this month!

Regards,

Oz

Rosters
 

Hi i see there are no Standby before ULR this month , must be getting short of crew these days. I don't want to do 92 hours every month ...There are more leaving then coming at the moment i for one didnt recommend any of my friends i don't dislike them that much. They really have Fu@@ed up a good job this lot with there penny grapping. Have heard a couple of flights cancelled due no crew ,wonder what there excuse will be the boss this time...:ugh:

Yup, right, my roster is a :}......it s getting worse and worse.
EK201, 1CPT and 2FOS starting the 31. Just check it online. Problem solved for them. 1 Cpt everyday saved.

Nothing will change................PRESS 2

Sexdriven

Simple. If you're exhausted, it's much safer on one engine cause everything happens....t h a t .......m u c h.....s l o w e r. This gives you have more time to react and in case you screw it up, you end up in the terminal building with less velocity! However, I always insist the F/O's use full reverse. The noise usually wakes me from my micro sleep just in time to handle the radio.

Nowdays, I'm even contemplating shutting one down around 2000' on finals. Not only should this save fuel and make the management think what a great guy I am, it also gives me the practise required to achieve a 5 for my single engine work in the next OPC. :ok:

Of course, this would only be with the F/O's consent and never during LVP's or crosswinds of more than 25kts. That would just be silly.

Harry

95hour block for me... This airline is destroying me:{

EK 201 is 3 pilot from the 28th of March onwards not the 31st.

Is that sand in my company's vaseline jar?

93 hours rostered for me:ugh:

Gents...with many airlines the fleet you are on can have a major impact on your lifestyle/roster. Is there any preferred fleet at EK?? or ones to steer clear of, if possible?? Is 90 hrs typical of say 4 or 5 trip month?
Cheers

The pain is pretty equally shared. The Airbus fleet is short of pilots at the moment, the 777 is doing more ultra long haul, now with 3 crew not 4.

90 hours is typical of every month at the moment. The problem is not the number of trips (3 or 4 layovers is not too bad) but the number of night turns, especially to India. If the flying were pure long haul it would be better but once you get to about 90 hours they can still fit in a couple of short turns (2 hours block time) to take you right up to 99 hours in 28 days, or 900 in a year.

Minimum legal days off and 99hrs 59 minutes in 28 days seems to be the target at the moment.

In about 7 years here I've never been so tired.

Just completed 74 hrs in 15 days...west ULR, few days off, far east, few days off, west ULR again. Rediculous now, but even worse when one of those will turn to 3 pilots next month.

This 3 pilot JFK rubbish never worked last time; it won't work this time either. Absolute desperation now given the poor forward planning for pilot numbers this year. (this shortage was forecast by recruiting months ago..but the bean counters further up the foodchain decided they..meaning us..could handle it).

Now it's not money, it's purely a shortage caused by numbers leaving, and a delayed management response to expansion.

If Emirates wants to schedule pilots to JFK with a crew of three and if the pilots are that upset about it then all that it would take is for one of the three pilots to call SOS while in JFK and tell doctor that he/she is sick. For best results call the SOS line 4 hours prior to pick up in the hotel lobby. The two other guys, assuming EK were smart enough to put 2 captains on the original flight, will be limited to flying to Istanbul at best or possibly Athens. Once there they will be able to sit back and enjoy the rest of the flight home in Business Class which will be flown by a set of pilots EK would have to position from DXB.Of course thats assuming that EK can find an open seat on the continuing flight to DXB. Could be that the same two pilots would get a night off in the enroute alternate city or maybe EK would offload a paying passenger and his/her bags in order to get the crew home. Either way a pain the the @r$e for EK.
On the other hand if EK used 1 CA and 2 FOs for this money saving 3 pilot exercise then they would be well and truely knackered if the CA took ill. I would imagine that a couple of cancellations or enroute diversions due to staff shortages every month would sort the 3 pilot issue out.:eek:
Of course doing that would require a moderately sized pair of minerals and I am not in a position to say whether or no EK pilots have any. Certainly the EK pilots need to change the way they are getting shafted by management. The EK pilots can change the way they are being treated, they just have to take initative. Drop enough pebbles in a pool and you will get a big enough wave. :ok:

I am wondering how these 3 men ULR flights will be managed? Probably by the normal FTLs. Like we did a few years ago. Now will you go into discretion when the time is up? Will there be factoring as well? Imagine one captain and 2 f/os and having to factor the captain's time in the bulk. That would actually mean "no captain on board" for the time you rest. I can't accept that. If they want my signature to operate a flight they have to credit me for the whole time.

What do you think?

Hope it is sorted out before we go flying... I heard the pressure in the cooker is pretty high when you refuse discretion... They even put you in discretion without asking by delaying some "annexe" flights on night turns and if you refuse you have to justify... What is it that they don't understand in the word discretion???

can't complain this month...although got inflicted 87 hrs...as long as stay out of dubai im fine.....but the trend is definitely to get worse...get ready guys...!!!!

It's a bit sad that I won't be going to NYC again. There is no way I am going with only 3. The magic button number 2 for me!!!!! Tossers!!!:ugh::mad:

@ Sheikh...

why press 2?

Please drag yourself, after a good night sleep to JFK. Crush then and call SOS...

.. you are tired... press 2 in JFK... The way better way to go...

Rest in the hotel as soon as you have seen the Dr.. your Rest period starts then....

If you have delay... depart towards JFK.. Put the bird down in Keflavik (remote) and get your good rest....:}


Sorry 4 the Passengers. But, do you think anybody wants to fly with a dead tired crew?:=:=:=

So rostered for 95 (a push through the "92 Cap"), 3 man JFK, no more Standby berfore ULRs, surley to goodness someone in that building must be asking questions!!!!! If this is not desperation, I dont know what is:mad::ugh:

unfortunately the company will get away with the 3 men JFK, a few years ago, I had a delay of 20 min and refused to go into discretion and went home, the flight left 7 hrs later. the next day another mate had 90 min delay and did the flight with 3 crew, he came from the boeing to the bus just for the 380.
with tossers like him we will never win.

Two instances of 'manual insertion' in March, of which one was tailored to take advantage of minimum rest in DXB, and another one maliciously inserted on the day before leave and preceded by numerous days off. :ugh:

I'm tired of this crap... 85 hours with most of it being back side of the clock. Well, aside from the f$% sim support.

Minimum days off and turn arounds up the ying-yang. I see India night turn arounds so damn much I fell like I could apply for Indian citizenship.

What a bunch of crap.

This place is a joke. Already bad and getting worse by the day.

sorry to dissapoint, but I'm not unhappy with March sched
 

Yes, I'm doing 91:50, but its my bottom bid month, no turns, and yes a stby day before ULR. Worst part of the sched is a 418, which isn't that bad.

Thanks God I'm out of there....
 

.....never felt better in my life!

Just be sure to call in sick and state "fatigue" as the reason. Make sure it's been marked in your roster as SKF since crew scheduling will try to not mark it as fatigue and make it look like you "just" called in sick. Unless we create hard evidence for fatigue issues at the airline, nothing will change.

Had my medical recently and talked to the doc about 92+ hr rosters and fatigue, they are very supportive of changing this but can't really do anything unless pilots report unfit due to fatigue.

As per 3-Pilot ULR's, just do one and call in unfit due to fatigue right after and go to the clinic and get a couple days off to recover, hopefuly missing a flight or two. Since we are so incredibly short on pilots, that will throw quite a wrench in the system and cause a lot disruptions.

Remember, without evidence and a paper trail NOTHING will change.

Then I guess it must be another troff who's got two long Oz trips, a UK layover with a return sector through the night, four X days then leave...

'Typically a bunch would be more than four - two is a couple, three and four are called a few, so more than that is often called a bunch.'

95 hours, good lord. I may have to moderate the moderating with this roster :ugh::ugh::sad:

EGGW

........does the bidding system actually work ?:ugh::ugh: Before would get 4 out of 5 of my bids but since 92hrs/max roster l hardly get what l bid for. This month on the advice of fellow "sufferers" didn't bid and lo an' behold....... got most of the flights l had bid for in the previous months........:}

welcome to the 777, AB not bad this month. ULR 4 pilots SLR 3 pilots same as the bus 3-4 years ago, its not something that is new!

Things are getting better, JFK 3 pilots, YYZ on the 380, remains at 4 pilots for a 10 minutes block time difference :ugh: Back to bed, soooooo tired, keep recovering!

I don't think the 380 guys are working too hard, so they have to make up hours for them some where....

Originally 94:55 hours, but already one layover trip has been removed from my roster. So l guess l can look forward to STBY, sim support or night turns instead to get me to 91:59 hours for the month.

Have to say it seemed odd having every ULR crew doing standby prior to a trip. A couple each day would suffice.
Having said that, any three-crew JFK may have to have more than usual coverage ULR standby though, if what was going on five years ago is any indication on the 340.

The 414 standby does have to be realigned if it hasn't already. Not much time to get to work from a call out to beat the curfew.

Discretion out of DXB (and other ports)? Been asked and "told" several times, but never accepted and always declined!


halas

Discretion?
 

A quick question from an outsider-

What is discretion? And how does it apply to "out of Dubai"?

Ramrise

It refers to "With or without Vaseline" and it is legal in the Gulf.

Rostered for mid 90's hours in March.

Burning both ends of the Vaseline candle EK?

Ramrise
Commanders have discretion (up to 3 hours) for use to cover things such as emergencies,delays etc. On a single sector there is normally some "fat" in the schedule between the crews rostered FDP (flying duty period) which consists of a period time to report for the flight and the scheduled flight time.
In the case of such a long flight as this topic crews can report and run out of hours within 15 mins with a small delay (i.e. late pax). If this happens crews can use their discretion or otherwise. You may ask how can it be that a Crew member turns up fit to fly then a few hours later he's not. Difficult one - the landing is some xx hours away. Clearly most posters think 2 crews is the answer, best option for time away from controls. Only 3 crew means less time away. I'm probably safe in saying most (state)airlines use 4 crew

As a result of all those shortages and problems does EK consider about reducing the minimum flight time requirements for the DEC's and FO's???

Incoming!!!!!!

Take Cover!!!!!

Was there a change
 

Mr. Angry, is not a max of 2 hours out of DXB and 3 once airborne.....:confused:

Hi!

IF EK is flying you guys this much, won't about everyone time out at the end of Oct with the 900 hour yearly max???

cliff
NBO

Cliff,

Yes. That is when they will get really creative with the FTLs. As the title of the thread says, we haven't seen anything yet.

Silky

No, up to 3 hours on any single sector or prior to the last sector on multiple sectors. Otherwise, 2 hours. Also, homebase has nothing to do with it. Rules apply regardless of which airport you're operating from. Misconception amongst some that discretion can't be applied out of home base! ULR rules are specific and different. Rules for 3 man ops confusing and contradictory if you work through the various chapters in the FOM. There again, what can you expect from our manuals.............or should I say, CD's!

Suggest we all start getting to know the FDP's inside out. You gonna need to soon when SMNC are on the mobile discussing discretion for your JFK! :hmm: