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-   -   The sackings will continue until.... (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/381454-sackings-will-continue-until.html)

MrMachfivepointfive 9th Aug 2009 16:53

Its true
 
I may jeopardize my reputation as an EK muppet - but its true.
I don't know ANYBODY in modern aviation who doesn't have a pic of him/herself taken in front of or inside a high bypass engine - but those folks got sacked for it.
Be careful out there.

MTOW 10th Aug 2009 00:17

joehunt, despite what Payscale says, from my (quite long) experience flying into Oz with EK, Wiley is correct. The Australians won't let the outbound crew past the departure lounge until the incoming crew have left the aircraft. (Payscale's right about the bridge being switched between Arrivals and Departure floors.)

On the few occasions when I've felt I've had to brief the outgoing captain on some technical issue with the aircraft, they've let me talk to him, but it's turned into an exercise that's pretty close to pulling teeth. Security, y'know.

Payscale 10th Aug 2009 06:13

My fault. I had DXB in mind when I answered about in and out bound crews meeting.

Payscale

Instant Hooligan 10th Aug 2009 06:40

Rock, Just to clarify it was a member of the EK staff in CMB who took photo's of the crew taking photo's of themselves to use as evidence against them?
Did I read your message correctly? I shouldn't really be surprised but .......

Marooned 10th Aug 2009 06:52

Support???
 
Regardless of who took the photo the main issue I feel strongly about is the lack of SUPPORT despite assurances from TCAS, Ed & Marty that it would be given.

If support was given it was ineffective and a sad reflection on the state we are in; that our 'managers' are impotent and regardless of their overtures to the contrary we have no worthwhile support whatsoever.

L1011 10th Aug 2009 07:58

The photos (of the crew taking photos) were taken by a group (i.e. more than one) of passengers. They demanded that they be sent to EK management along with a complaint.

Doubt anyone would be brave enough to bury something like that. I have known the SM in Colombo for years and have no reason to doubt what he says. Perhaps You Rock has evidence to the contrary?

But the point is the ridiculously OTT response. Typical of how things have been run here recently.

Which reminds me why I have given up reading or responding to these forums.

Bye All

L10

nakbin330 10th Aug 2009 08:45

He was, most certainly, NOT a national of the UAE!

EGGW 10th Aug 2009 09:18

When I check the portal, when this incident first was the subject of you can't be serious about this, the 2x crew RR who had just done the CMB, were most certainly NOT Emaratis. Not that the nationality has a bearing on the incident.

Also don't forget your hats chaps, you may get a written warning!!!! Trust me I met an F/O who told me about being reported by a FDM!!!!!!! TCAS went nuts apprently.

Ho hum...

EGGW

Goat Liner 10th Aug 2009 11:24

Wow... working for Emirates reminds me more and more of Qatar Airways!

Saltaire 10th Aug 2009 14:28

Being reported by an FDM? So it's mandatory wearing your hat inside the HQ building? I thought in public view was the focus.

This is getting silly

joehunt 10th Aug 2009 14:30

This is what happens when you end up being slaves to :mad:s. They are and have been for centuries, masters at trading in unpaid or under paid "staff", who are in the end abused and battered. They just can't help themselves.

Talking about the "match made in heaven" to which EK lawyer refers. Is everyone so s:mad: scared of loosing their damned jobs, not make a stand? I.E., leave.? I am afraid I would sweep the streets before being reduced to that. There is also a life outside aviation in case you are not aware.

Never been interested in working for w:mad: again, as I have done my share of bending over, thank you very much. Just not worth it.

I will now avoid flying on EK, for sure.

GoreTex 12th Aug 2009 23:57

serves the FO right, WTF would he even go to the FDM (who was a crew planner or mopping the floors a few weekes earlier) and apologize for not having a hat.
the FDM is not the boss of the pilots unless we let him boss us around

Wiley 13th Aug 2009 00:06


More blood will be spilt as TCAS and the Horse try to hold on to a job, they are already on death row, just waiting for the executioner.
My prediction is that either (or both) the equine person or the traffic avoidance one will eventually get the chop over the Melbourne incident - (and they both know it) - but only after a suitable 'face saving' time has passed, so it can be sold to those who might choose to believe the company line that will be spun at the time as being not related to Melbourne.

To chop one of both of them now would be admitting that the perfect EK system might not be quite so perfect, so they have a stay of execution. Each thinks the other might be the only unlucky one to go, hence each of them tripping over their own feet attempting to prove to AAR what hard men they can be in dealing with the slav... sorry, pilots.

As the title of the thread says: "The Sackings Will Continue..."

I suspect that'll be one farewell party that will be able to be held in a mobile phone booth.

tcasguy 13th Aug 2009 01:02

Body Count
 
I was wondering if we can come up with an accurate body count for the year. Below are the names I believe were "sacked" and updates through cut and paste are welcome. If anyone has any training cost info, it would be interesting to know what the replacement training costs will be.....

Fly Safe

MEL X 2
MAN X 2
SIN X 1
KL X 1
DXB Blogger X 1
CMB X 1 (Guess CA remained a CA but Purser status is unknown)
EK Safety VP X 1 (back to the line)
ACC (near miss-still with us thank goodness)

I show 4 CAs and 4 FOs to be replaced. Any validated updates?

Fly Safe,

Retired (Again).

MrMachfivepointfive 13th Aug 2009 16:41

hat in sim
 
Sailor Staynes is correct. The FDM in question was MT. Don't know what rode him that day.

Fart Master 13th Aug 2009 16:46

Not the most capable FDM in my opinion

trimotor 14th Aug 2009 05:16

CMB photos CA in the right seat now for 2 years.

Payscale 14th Aug 2009 06:54

Could it be because they took pictures at the main airport in a country with civil unrest and that might have jeopardized EKs operation into that airport.

I cant in my wildest fantasy imagine, even after 8 years in country, that its just the fact that they took pics. Even if it was in the engine. How many times havnt you seen foot steps in the engine during walk around.. :uhoh:

BackpackPilot 14th Aug 2009 07:17

Not the smartest move to be outside taking photos in a place where they've just been at war for years. They base fighters there and have been attacked. Asking the chap in blue camouflage (whats with that??) with the Lee Enfield to hold your lens cover while you take snaps of the girls standing all over the acoustic lining - hmmm.... clever?

It'd be handy to know the real motivation behind the recent spate of sackings. It's not to do with photography or having sex or over-flying a jungle oonga-boonga "palace" too low. But of course if you ask them they will only tell you lies.

Payscale 14th Aug 2009 12:24

Are you for real Snorkel....? Get off this forum before your dad comes home from his flight. Surely you must a delinquent teen messing around. Run along now...:=

Murrenfan 14th Aug 2009 12:28

Just checked on the portal, captain still flying as a captain and FO still removed from roster. He presented his appeal a few days ago and still waiting the outcome.
Mfan.

Fart Master 14th Aug 2009 15:42

It's got nothing to do with war/civil unrest guys. It was some of the pax who complained

lowstandard 14th Aug 2009 16:19

So we get fired/demoted now when pax complain?

Make sure you bring that up during the next SEP when they tell the cabin crew that they can press charges against abusive pax and the company will back them up.

You rock 14th Aug 2009 20:37

Its got nothing to do with pax taking the photo it was actually EK ground staff.

xkred27 14th Aug 2009 23:20

We should all start writing up the ground staff in CMB if this is true.
They are useless their anyway. Every flight write a complaint, it's not hard to find mistakes to write up.

Wizofoz 15th Aug 2009 03:37

xkred,

And who will that help?

What's happened is bad because someone has lost their livelyhood. Your solution? See if we can get someone ELSE (Probably a poorly paid guy trying to feed his family on a pittence in a third world country) to lose THEIR job, and hopefully start a tit-fot-tat war in the process.

Pretty petty and not at all helpful....

H1N1 15th Aug 2009 08:01

Wisofoz is right, by the way
I have seen some of our new pilots (in the four or five year range), doing many stupid things, both technically and/or socially.

Everyone here must remember that Emirates IS NOT a normal airline in a normal country. Employees are not supported by any laws. Every rule here is to protect the company, not you. They are bound by religion, costumes, and money, money, money. Any real or perceived threat to any of those and you are on your way home. Trust me.

That AS and ED blabber about support is nonsense.

trimotor 15th Aug 2009 08:14

For perspective, AS and ED's advice that they will support pilots is restricted to supporting that pilot when he/she has done something based on doing the best they can, with responsible use of resources (i.e. info gathering) and making a decision/taking a course of action based on the best info available to him/her.

Not defending anyone in particular, and ignoring the outcomes of some recent events for a second, if you don't follow the rules or take reasonable steps to get all the info relating to the problem, how can you expect support? Not knowing the rules is not a reasonable defence. Anywhere.

Could you defend someone who didn't follow the rules (that's the game we are in) when they had a choice? Like to see you try...

ekpilot 15th Aug 2009 09:49

Fair enough but...
 
When you can get fired over a single line of more than 3000 pages of rules...

FCOM 1-2-3-4
QRH
FCTM
OMC
FOM
AFM
MEL
CCEM
Cabin Logbook
Aircraft Logbook
CDL
Aircraft Library
LIDO text Book
LIDO Approach Chart
LIDO En-Route Chart
OPT Manual
Dangerous Good Manual
CAP 413 ( Radio Telephony)
NOTAMS
SIGMETS
Employee Handbook
Every Single Country RULES ( about 80 )

AS WELL AS WITH

FCI (# seventy something)
FCN(# ?)
FTN(??)
Emails: (DL instructions)
Alerts on F.O.I.P
Managements on F.O.I.P
Weekly Reports
My Mint
Vistair
Pelesys
Training Info on F.O.I.P

PLUS...

FCOM Amendments
Temporary Revisions
O.E.B Airbus /Boeing
O.E.B Emirates
FCOM Bulletins

And make sure you are to the standards of...

OMD
FCTP
FTM 1-2
APT 2
Recurrent Manual
Conversion Training Manual

DID I FORGET SOMETHING??????? :E (Please add what i forgot)

When they say they will back you up if you stay within SOP, they mean all of the above. Like very well said before the rules are there to protect the company from us. They expect you to operate on limits constantly ( Exemple:Max weight, Min Fuel, Max Duty...) They are almost perfect. Proof is they constantly have to rewrite some SOP procedures so we remain sitting ducks. How can you be aware of about 3000 pages of constantly changing information. But if you are not happy you can leave... If you stay be ready to be as good as your last flight and everything will be okay. This is just how it is around here:D Take it or leave it! Where is the rule about the pics i did not find it?:}

Keep Discovering:ok:

Mister Warning 15th Aug 2009 11:12

Beautifully said, EKpilot!!

PorkKnuckle 15th Aug 2009 11:32


Alerts on F.O.I.P
Managements on F.O.I.P
Weekly Reports
Interesting point as there is no mandate (afaik) to read any of what appears on the portal however as you pointed out they'll be quick to hang you should you operate in contravention of any of the "suggestions" contained therein - emails, weekly updates, etc. They used to put that sort of thing in the mailboxes but much CHEAPER to email it to you.

Dropp the Pilot 15th Aug 2009 13:19

ekpilot: you've missed one of the 3000 pages...
 
.... on whch you will find the welcome news that you are bound by nothing contained in the AFM: it is a dead document.

That probably takes your total down to 2870 or so.

Keep reading.

xkred27 15th Aug 2009 18:48

Wiz of OZ

of course your right, let's as pilots accept some 3rd world moron dob us in
and lose our jobs. If their some poor schmuck, then they should do their job and mind their fu#@ing business what we do.

Wizofoz 15th Aug 2009 19:46

Xred,

Yes, they should.

Would mounting a campain to dob THEM in make it more or less likely that they would take the oppertunity to see US sacked?

Accrimony towards them has made you keen to seek revenge. Why should they be any different?

Instant Hooligan 15th Aug 2009 21:12

Wiz,
You worry about revenge from their part but they've already done it...!! A dose of their own medicine may well make them think twice.

Wizofoz 16th Aug 2009 05:34

IH,

Have you ever been involved in a dispute where that worked? Or has it led to escallation of the conflict and more damage on BOTH sides?

Instant Hooligan 16th Aug 2009 05:41

Like aiming point says!!! How long do we get pushed,poked and prodded before someone stands their ground and pushes back!! To answer your question, several times and yes milk may get spilt but it never happened again.

disconnected 16th Aug 2009 06:52

The mess of information coming through the various channels, some controlled and some uncontrolled, I believe is actually a good defence.

The company has lost control of the flow of data. So many manuals have duplicated, contradictory data. So many channels are uncontrolled. The authenticity of the information is often at question. Much is not part of the legal documentation so can be ignored.

I think if if got to a legal scrap after some kind of omission resulting in action against a crew, a good lawyer would have much to work with. Some serious questions would be asked higher up and embarrassment and dismissal of those responsible would probably result from the legal argument.

Stick to the basic SOP, forget the rest. Its impossible to keep up. Take out some good legal insurance. Write the odd email about the overload of information and changes, and keep it on record.

If ever anyone throws the book at you sling it right back.

Wizofoz 16th Aug 2009 11:47

...And how ridiculous that the proposed target of your "Fight for our rights" campain are the ground staff in CMB! Like THEY are our biggest problem!

yankee22 3rd Sep 2009 14:56

Heard rumblings that an EK A380 FO was sacked recently. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumour??

Was told it had something to do regarding commuting to Europe and got caught doing it on standby days....


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