EK Commanders Conference
 

A rostered duty, but AS has decided that Company transport will not be provided for the Commanders Conferences scheduled thru May. I thought our contract mandated that company transport would be available for rostered duties? Am I being petty in thinking this is really taking the p**s. :{

Yes you are!

Do you want me to give you a lift? I have plenty of time as not so many companies are coming back to me for interviews :8...

We can always meet down at Spinneys or Park 'n shop carparks and organise a car pool.

What a load of cr@p! No transport for a duty.:ugh:
This is in the same vein as the cabin crew that HAD to go to these bloody meetings whether they liked it or not. Same with us but only the most priviliged (Captain's only)

Oz

To show our contempt, let's all show up some minutes late.

"... the wifey brought the Corolla back late ..."
"... the taxi didn't show up on time ..."
"... we couldn't find a parking spot ..."
"... there was a huge tailback at the SO exit ..."
"... we missed the exit and could only turn in Sharjah, not used to driving ourselves ..."

It will nicely disrupt their poor reality show :yuk:.

I would just point out that most of the airline drive themselves to work everyday.

Think we might be missing the point here. Whats this "conference" all about? have they some more bad news??:ugh:

Dear Jetty

Such arguments are simply silly.
Each work environement has its rules and regulations. At EK transport to duty is a such and not providing it, even for a special duty is a breach and precedent. Therefore the contempt, because you can then breach anything else, once the precedent set. Comprende?

It would seem that not many turned up for their Thursday Sessions, so now we will all be forced to go, at least its rostered.
Dress code: since I seem to have miss placed my new how to dress page , does company uniform included Hats and Jackets or as we wear to the sim,. Which then brings up another question if we wear the hat can we take it off in the room?
For those with more sartorial knowledge please advise. So much to think about these days would hate to get a fashion violation.
:rolleyes:

Another good listening to?
 

OK, TCAS has called a commanders conference. So, it is either another good listening to or perhaps, benefit of the doubt, an attempt to 'receive' as good as he wants us to take.

'The situation is grave' 'you should be grateful you have a job' BS should give way to an open exchange, that means you TCAS, an open exchange of why your management style is losing control at a time when you need all hands to the helm.

Yet you continue to erode Ts & Cs and without exception issue FCI after FC Bl**dy I damning us to share 'the pain' which you so obviously do not, at a time when you need us to comply with edicts you see necessary to reduce costs and save the bottom line.

If this totally superficial vehicle for the managements egos (jobs) is going to take place then we must be prepared. Ask the questions we want answering... answered there and then and not deferred, deflected or otherwise put off.

I'll start:

Why, after numerous ASRs from your commanders on fatigue issues did it take you months, months to do anything about it?

Why, when you tacitly acknowledged the 'fatigue' issue did you continue to produce fatigue ridden rosters?

Why now, when we were striving to improve standards, did we reduce training, put it all 'online' and yet harden PAM requirements to 'appear' to be doing the job properly?

Why TCAS do you 'reserve' the personal right recruit DECs despite many internally qualified pilots and do so in direct contravention of FOM policy? It would never happen at BA so why do you cynically do it here?

Why, when you have a workforce made up of an almost entirely ex-pat base do you limit their ability to return home on their 'days off' (now ADs) and thus deprive the company of income (staff travel) and the pilots themselves the chance to visit families and relatives who cannot travel so easily?

Why are people trapped in sub-standard accommodation (pilots unable to bring families over as they are still in apartments, others on the approach to 30L where babies are woken, rest broken by the noise) despite assurances that they would be provided with decent housing prior to being lured here?

Why, after some have committed to non-company accommodation but waiting for release dates, do you remove the contractual right to an allowance which would give some the chance to remove themselves from some of the sub-standard accommodation?

Why do you restrict access to the flight deck jump seats for ID carrying, fully vetted EK crews trying to find a way home when you have already have 'exceptions' in the FOM?

But my guess is that it is not going to be one of those conferences is it TCAS?

Just a bit of thread creep, but to add to the above post, I've just heard that the VP Flight Safety has resigned over the 'mis-management' treatment of the MEL pilots:=

its not a duty or training, I am not going

If VP Flight safety has actually done that, then much respect to him. :D He will be the first person in the mismanagement department (I was going to say team but that would be an insult to the word) to show some back bone and stand up for what is right.

I wil come...if I can get a taxi.................tossers:ok:

I cast my vote for Marooned to be the Pilot Spokesman at said conference meeting!

So no transport, guessing no duty pay. Are they avin a larf. ?

'You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink'.

I unfortunately will have little to contribute at said conference.

Do you really think our comments will change anything, never have, and never will, until that awful day comes, and sadly with EKs present course it will come.

What do you mean "Why, after numerous ASRs from your commanders on fatigue issues did it take you months, months to do anything about it?"

should read

"Why, after numerous ASRs from your commanders on fatigue issues did you do nothing about it?

sorry to digress....but

The issue with safety in this here outfit has never been with the safety department. They have always strived to to the right thing, and have always been very professional by most accounts. The problem has been interference from above and sideways (HR) by mismanagers who are not qualified to comment, and as usual don't have a clue.

Regarding transport, I guess we can take our parking voucher and get TCAS to stamp it, or get Eds hoof mark for free parking.

I'm sure snacks will be provided, but with a limit of one soft drink or coffee. Pilots who make a suggestion will be thrown a biscuit.

allaru:

I think you are right; from engineering running flight ops to fleets relationship to training or lack thereof, the structure itself flawed. And instead of being an integral part of flight operations flight safety was instead marginalised and prone to interference from purely commercial interests.

Vertical management, which goes right to the top with interference from TC, is always prone to topple eventually.

You are also right that we have been here before and no doubt will be again and NOTHING will be said or done of any value... waste of a day off.

And of course it’s showing right after the bidding closing, nothing on your personal calendar.
I’m bed they will put it right in the middle of your 5 days OFF….to f…U your life again?
OH, I forgot, you don’t need to travel back home cause your family can’t have 2 tickets a year now….PATHETIC

I bed...too tired to spell it correctly

Does anyone actually go to the Thurs afternoon briefings?

A "conference"? Somehow I tend to think that their definition of "conferring" is somewhat skewed.

True to form, management have decided to insert the "duty" into the month of May after bidding closed. Either they are such a shambles they didn't dream this up until the last minute and then didn't think to give us notice OR they simply do not give a f**k.

I think the above should be the subject of the first question out of anyone's mouth if it isn't the first explanation and apology out of theirs.

It'll be interesting to see how many drivers are rostered by idiotic and witless crew-scheduling for the "conference" in the morning session after a midnight sign-off or the afternoon session before a midnight sign-on.

Not sure where it's being held but presumably the meeting's at the COC. Apparently it's two hours long which is short enough for them to simply bombard us with financial performance bull**** and other woes but not long enough for all the group to have a go at unloading their concerns. Oh and best of all, they'll get a least 5 dirhams out of everyone for parking!! Jesus Christ are they THAT desperate for cash?????

I do wonder why it's a "commander's" meeting. Maybe it's to empower the Capts to start upholding the standards they never teach anymore in their miniscule training syllabus.

Any management flunkies out there got any inside goss on the reason for the conference? I hope it's not the same as the Pursers who were made to attend financial briefing intended to motivate them with the bad news. On their day off.

Can't believe people are actually going to waste their time at these meetings...

BlaBlaBlaBla... meeting over!

My suspicion is, that despite "toodle pip's" frequent imploring of all and sundry to attend the Thursday one-way talk fests so management could hear our concerns, attendance has been low enough to get the message across to management that, on the whole, the pilot group have done a Clark Gable on 'em. (Brett's message to Scarlett in that scene from "Gone With The Wind", for anyone for whom that was a bit cryptic.)

So, in that grand old tradition of "the whippings will continue until morale improves", they've decided to force pilots to attend what seems to be a carbon copy of the Thursday meetings. Why only captains? Could I be right in thinking that the vast majority of attendees at the Thursday meetings were FOs, keen not to ruffle any feathers that might need to remain smooth with selection for upgrade in mind?

If the message to be imparted is so important that the conference is to be made compulsory, two questions immediately come to mind:

(1) Are we to be told something the FOs should not be privy to? The implications, if that's even halfway true, are mind-boggling and more than a little worrying in this day of CRM and Transcockpit Authority Gradients, particularly if it's some instruction regarding watching the FOs more closely.

and

(2) What in the world were they thinking when they came out with the no transport idea? 30 pilots per meeting? Put on a single bus. The downside to that idea (from management's perspective, at least), might be that getting 30 (I can guarantee you) - disaffected captains together in a crowded bus before a compulsory duty they're quite obviously not going to be paid for might result in a little more "bonding" than management might prefer.

From the pilots' perspective, it would be a real novelty - actually seeing a few work colleagues, a near impossibility in the new "keep 'em separated at all costs" COC.

Now Now cool your heels
 

"OK Mullah, I love a good rant as well as the next guy.....But the meeting will be at the Training College Auditorium. Not in the New EGHQ

You don't have to pay there yet.

One reason for the late notice might be late directives from above to hold such a brainwash. As it transpires, the 407 voice recorder revealed some blunt front line feelings about management that somewhat “surprised his Highness”, apart from the Aussies.
We might get an Abu Gurair briefing.

May I suggest:

taxi
civvies


then beer at the IR?

Then the whole day is not "wasted":ok:

To GMDS.......
 

If such is the case, it could be a good turn of events from the recent deterioration of our work conditions and life in Dubai. Something eventually must come out to uncover the failings subsurface within the company. Hopefully this event is all it takes before we sink deeper into the quagmire.

I can dream, can't I.........

CO

Capitalising on a bad situation
 

My feelings are that management are using an undoubtably difficult time to bring in much desired cost cutting measures that once invoked will never be removed when the situation improves. They are capitalising on a bad set of circumstances rather than managing them for the long term.

I have no problem with putting my nose to the grindstone as required but it would appear that some of the latest changes in T&C's are not entirely necessary, badly thought out and reactionary. All with a view to appear to be taking decisive measures and being indispensible.

Most of these measures might look sensible in the short term but are fraught with long term implications.

Take for instance the increase in productivity threshold. Appropriate in regards to long range flights but totally inappropriate if a roster does not contain LR flights. In fact the letter that justifies these actions says exactly that: Prior to the LR flights, the productivity was appropriate but with more LR flights it is not.

How simplistic to simply then raise the threshold across the board! What if the roster contains no LR flights? By their own definition the productivity threshold is not appropriate.

They could have dealt with a number of rostering issues by addressing this correctly but took a short term view by making a sweeping change that looks good on a spreadsheet but is doubtless going to increase the incidences of serious fatigue and associated pilot error.

Is it co-incidence that some very public errors have been made since this rule was introduced? Call it fatigue, destruction of moral, angst at job security or whatever you want but the ASR's will increase and ultimately a serious incident or accident is inevitable.

"Bad things happen in Bear Markets"

There is little recognition for the difficulties employees are facing outside their employment. Dubai is a miserable place at the moment and many pilots are distracted by events around them and affecting them. Couple this with the constant whittling away by the management and psychological impact is huge. Despite our best intentions and professionalism we are all human.

Management would do well to view the situation as a whole, not an opportunity to push personal agendas of cost cutting to curry favour and remain employed.

We need sensible discussion, sensible decisions, and strong hands. Unlike the rest of Dubai, aviation cannot be reduced to the level driving the hardest bargain.

Historically this has often turned out to be too bitter for anyone's taste.

Hi,

they should have put the option to attend the meeting on the CRS bid.

Morale is a threat to flight safety, hopefully it will be addressed and well received by those that decide to attend.

GDMS
 

Wouldn't surprise me indeed.
You know the thing is, we were soo damn close to the biggest disaster in years and all they can come up with in the first place is to push the crews into resignation. Pathetic. I think this tea&biscuits thing is a farce to polish up their image to the outside world.

Gents : don't forget to take your hats and ties. :yuk:

I seem to remember TCK being frog marched out of the building after the JNB incident. Perhaps TCAS and Ed are being proactive, and trying to get a good price for their cars etc before they too are dissmissed. :E Should we be running a book on this? Who will go and when?

If its yet another paycut, couldnt they just give us another laminated card stating how and when we should bend over?

Don

Fom 14.2
 

The first sentence in this section states:
"Transport is provided for all duties undertaken by crewmembers".

Think tactically.

Gather in groups before the meeting.

Lay out your plans.

Write out what the pilot group considers as needing attention.

Decide who will speak for what.

Given you must go to the briefing, turn the inevitable to your advantage.

Good luck.

Think tactically.

Gather in groups before the meeting.

Lay out your plans.

AND GO TO IRISH VILLAGE!!

30+ not showing up sends the strongest message!:}

Turn up, find the sign in sheet, sign, then go for a piss for the rest of the day.

Or,

Just press 2, it's not like someone else has to do your duty :ok:

I for one will be calling transport for a car. We only have 1 car and if the boss is working, I sure as sh*t won't be paying for a taxi. The company want us to follow the rules, so they can as well by providing transport, it's part of the package.

Does'nt this feel like 2004 all over again? Nearly lost an aeroplane, management floundering around, morale nosediving etc etc. The best we can hope for is Long Range Ed getting a pink slip and then in few years the cycle will repeat itself!:sad:

We took a pay cut in 2004 as well. The more things change the more they stay the same. :ugh:

Anyone appplying for Eds Job? Aviation/geograhic/man management experience not require.

Don

Looks like the fun and games is starting earlier than May. I've just been rostered to attend a 'MB1' tomorrow morning at short notice whilst on reserve. What to do ?? - Open another bottle of wine !

dofus

please, please, please give us a short heads-up by tomorrow!!!
It will show the rest of us if it's worth the hassle or pulling the sickie.


Many thanks