Well, I guess everybody now knows what to do: Whoever I spoke to since this :mad: gave us the sh:mad:ts is saying the same: No more moneysaving for the company. In the long term this will backfire big time for Retard:ugh::ugh:.
How can someone be so damn stupid to alienate the entire workforce in times like these when you need the support or everyone?? I don't get it how someone can be so dumb.
I always used to be proud to be a pilot for EK, not anymore, unfortunately. No more motivation, no more favours for the company, nothing anymore. And I guess I'm not the only one...

Ghostflyer,
Good analysis, however by using your logic and the logic of the perfumed princes when times get better and we have a pilot shortage, we will have more time off and less AD days. Looks like you have the reasoning and possibly the CV to step into the puzzle palace yourself.:confused:

passion?
 

All of the posts above show me that regardless of what the company think of you guys, you are all passionate about what you do and are professionals. But that professionalism is obviously is being seriously tested by these policy changes..


i dont know how this will pan out but if the changes dont agree with you the trite answer is to dial '2 ' .. it does work but if that concept challenges your ethics then whose problem is that??

we still get paid and the company is still making money so ,,,,,RELAX!

I am sorry to say on my last flight :

With a little effort I could have left on time but didn't.
With a little effort I could have saved some fuel but didn't.
With a little effort I could have set idle rev but didn't.
With a little effort I could have shut down a donkey on taxi but didn't.

I am by no means proud of this, it seems quite unprofessional and works against my ethics. So why did I continue??
It will show on statistics and therefore raise attention. My mails and concerns to management do not.
Our beloved boss AAR displayes a dismal infantile attitude and therefore the only way he can be reached is by acting in a similar way.
Action and reaction.

EK has turned back the clock to HR management stone age. :{

Now I understand
 

A couple years ago I got fiercly attacked because I dared to be negative about EK. Today I understand why.

The fact that they --again-- tighten the screws which impacts many in our private lives tells me one thing : ED the talking horse doesn't give a damn sh*t about his skippers. If our dear 'local' friend came up AGAIN with a new rule like max 5 days off in a row, then at least I would expect my fleet manager to stand up . Not over here.

As the Dubai ship is sinking, I'm afraid more buckets of **** are ready to be piled over us...

Slightly off topic but...............

If cost saving and improved productivity are the goals then maybe a good prooning of the more rareified atmosphere offices is the place to start. But I suppose that would the turkeys and Xmas routine:ugh:.

How many Managers are supported by each aircraft?

If the stat is the same as the Royal Navy's Admirals to ship ratio we are all in big trouble.

Thinking Happy Thoughts?

Alwayz:ok:

EK has around 20% more VPs than aircrafts:uhoh:
It's like the VPs Elevators east and west in EGHQ are reporting to the SVP Elevators EGHQ who is reporting to the DSVP elevation devices Emirates/Dnata :p:p:p
BTW they are all entitled to min 3xprofitshare:D:D:D
Lean production :confused: not at EK:=:ugh::ugh::ugh:

Ghostflyer/ Snwsr

Good analysis and prognosis but I can't believe that you think the new rostering rule is going to help.

If the rule stated all pilots will fly 78hrs a month, no more, no less and rosters will be optimised to achieve this, nobody will have a problem, and you are using your resources to the max. With 900hr limitation and 6 weeks leave a year any more and you'll go over and any less and you're unproductive.

Imposing a 12 day off max rule and a day off next to leave limitation serves no purpose other than to alienate the staff. What tells me this was a one man's idea that did not benefit from a group brainstorming session is the fact that the author did not take into account the fact that unlike February with 28 days, next month is March with 31. So it's not going to look so pretty. All the best to crew planning next month as they try to tailor the March rosters to comply with this bright idea worth a Brown Najam.

Using excess reverse, not doing engine out taxi and loading up on gas you don't need as some suggested, is poor airmanship in my opinion.

But pressing 2 for your insertion will send the right signal. With the extra crew required to get called out for those trips, the new policy will soon stop being 'cost neutral'.

Leaving the APU running for five+ hours at home base is a waste.
No reverse and single engine taxi are nothing compared to company policy after we have left the ship. Multiply that by how ever many sit there between shifts.

For a larf, paruse your peepers over the talking horses latest contribution to Fleet Facts.
You will soon learn where his priorities lie and it ain't with the pilots well-being.

On a side line the FOM states that the fleet chief pilots will monitor the rosters and communicate regularly with the pilots, amoungst other requirements. Not sure about your fleet, but mine...l hear nothing.

By-the-way, l hear the OM-A after three years is now in beta phase!

Najms all round :}

halas

Yes there's wastage all around. It's seems like only the pilots are held accountable. The other day the APU burn was showing 1600kg when I got onboard. :D

I don't mind operating the way they want. But if they will mess with the rosters for no apparent reason, then they will see resistance.

Amongst other "tactics" they actually do not relate in any way to the qualities of airmanship per se.....in fact it could easily be argued that quite the opposite applies.

What they do equate to is a poor work ethos being engendered and perpetuated by the actions of a pathetic company management.......two entirely different things.

What is unacceptable is thinking of nothing else better than Press 2.

This has no impact finacially or otherwise on the company particularly with so very many pilots now on ADs (read STBY) every day. It only serves to mess up the lives of your work colleagues....... you know those on your side.
He or she may have been done over by the manual insertion of Ad/Stbys in their roster but could at least expect to spend the time at home with their families until, yep someone unnecessarily "Presses 2" so that they can stay home instead because they see themselves as more important than their colleagues.....now that is poor form and inconsiderate.

Have no doubt about it, abuse 2 and in no time flat the company will in short order revert to the good old days of requiring a Doctors visit and sick note for any sick day....even one day....causing more inconvenience and problems for your fellow pilots, and no-one else. Geez, imagine the waiting time at the clinic because you can bet they won't employ any more Doctors/Nurses on our account.

Bird On -- Spot on!

I will not take on the slightest tiny little increase of risk no more.
Press 2 is just shoving down ones anger to a buddy, I'd rather shove it down their throats and incidentally reduce my exposure to their pathetic measures.
The cherry on the pie is EDs latest publication. Have you ever, EVER read more hypocritical bulls#!t? :yuk::yuk:

They will soon forget.
 

Would everyone please just take it easy. May I suggest that like most roster change directives, it will last a few months and when upper management is happy with ''increased productivity'', then forget about it and go back to their happy little lives. The we go back to ours. Remember the last change? Low long did that last?

Please don't call sick out of spite either. By doing so, you are inconveniencing the rest of who like to give it an honest go.

On my fleet the last change was continuously enforced and never waivered from its introduction mainly because it could be achieved through the pairings......not so on the other fleets.

Now with the introduction and allowability for any number of AD days to be inserted into the roster to ensure easy and effective compliance with the new "rostering rules" on any fleet, I do feel that this time we are all going to be affected if for no reasons other than spite and jealousy and probably for a very long time. We shall see :uhoh:

How about rather than writing here, you actually send an e-mail to ED, Squeely, Fleet Chief Pilot etc etc so they know your feelings. Just be diplomatic, write clearly and explain to them how it affects you (if it does) or just ask for some clarification on the rumours (there are lots here). As a general rule I write out my thoughts, save it, go away for a few hours, come back edit it, leave the new revision overnight, then edit again before finally sending it - this way you don't regret what you've written!!!!

I have written an number of times about various things that I have thought were stupid. I registered my thoughts, got replies from those I wrote to and got it off my chest. You may not change anything but at least they know someone cares enough to write....

If you don't write, they have no idea how many people are annoyed at this latest stupid rule (they won't find out by the occasional guy 'pressing 2'!). By writing to them they cannot avoid knowing the depth of feeling and it may force then to think again about it.

In general most of us at EK are conscientious, professional people who want the best for the company. I will continue to use idle reverse IF I feel it is the right place and right time, likewise taxiing in single engine if I feel the situation warrants it. The fact they are being complete prats will not have any affect on my aircraft management. I will press 2 if I'm unwell, I will load extra fuel if it is required ie I will continue to do the job I do well and not give them any reason to question my professional abilities - but I will also still write to them when I feel it is needed.........

PERHAPS MORE OF YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME......WRITE TO THEM (give them something to do in the office rather than thinking up stupid rules!!!)

As a thought, especially as I know a lot of you guys are good at this sort of thing, why not post you objections / points / thoughts etc concisely here so that if anyone does pluck up courage to write in to Squeely, ED, Chief pilots etc at least they have a list of points to work from............ also it will help those guys whose english is not their first language.......

any thoughts...

because they are all talk, nothing else

If Ed, TCAS et al read these threads they must laugh their heads off. Talk of "game on" and fighting back with such hard core tactics as using "full reverse" (didn't the UN ban that weapon?). Oh and please if you unleash the all engine taxi wmd then for the safety of the kiddies, restrict it to non urban areas to minimise collateral damage. Really, if EK has a large enough group of disgruntled pilots who actually think this way then help us all. I am as P'd off as the next bloke about the roster rules and as a commutter it effects me big time. So if you are too, then do as I did and voice your opinion to those that make the big Ds in the circus tent, not to the rest of the clowns. Who knows Mini, maybe some hero will pluck up the courage to launch a salvo of emails. Oh the Horror!

Spag,
I like your post and you make some good points. However, I believe my brethren here think that those are the only "weapons" we have against this punitive policy change. With a slow uptick in fuel usage begining with this policy change, it might just get someone's attention.

But please let us not take out our frustrations on the crew controllers. They probably cringe everytime the phone rings knowing it's either a new policy change or and angry pilot.

As I said earlier, there is NO logical reason for this change. I don't believe I have ever seen a more bone headed move by a management team in all of my years of flying. Very few will do ANYTHING at this point to help out. Do your job as laid out in all of our FCNs, FCIs, FOM etc---nothing more.

been said before ; " they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing"

sadly so do our passengers and tourists to dubai. for many its an experience they do only once .

the arrogance and greed is flowing over into the product , no longer winning awards . on time performance that is non existant , tired ,angry cabin crew , engineers ,pilots bla bla. .......... but hey we have 600 movies and brand new shiny uniforms for the cabin crew , our executives stay in top shape using their private 'floor' with running track etc.

talk about dropping the ball

I wish the ostriches would take their damn heads out off the sand.

Isn't there an old truism in business (I think it goes back to the days of Dale Carnegie) that the first sign that a corporation is in decline is when it builds itself an edifice for its HQ?

Good one!
 

Wiley - you mean 'the hive' ??

I try to stay out of there as much as possible - ever try to find anyone there yet!!!

If they are looking for productivity why not put everything on the table but.... they dont want to do that ... like job share/basings/remote rosters/temp basing etc etc.... because it is easier to throw bone head ideas at us..

How come these dudes have not got the single engine taxi ban on the back blocks lifted yet...or am I out of touch??

The other day riding brakes to keep the speed down to '10 knots + GPS drift error of course... I was taught thirty years ago using thrust against brakes was bad technique but what would I know...that might produce abetter result than the last diatribe.:ugh:

endof.

I believe upper management has effectively utilized a technique to avoid fixing problems. They make it so difficult for anyone to address an issue, that eventually most people give up. Try calling HQ regarding ANYTHING and you will see what I mean. No one answers the phone, some messages boxes are left filled so we cannot even leave a message and then there is the general attitude the office dwellers have when dealing with us.

No one is accountable. The gibberish I have listened to from Crew Control over the past few weeks would confuse a linguist. I have also been dealing with a 2 1/2 year old problem that has taken me from feeling annoyed, to complete frustration, to anger and now it is well into the comedy phase. Last week when I tried contacting the FDM for over an hour regarding an issue, I finally gave up.

The management mantra is to confuse and aggravate us to the point we cave in and give up the battle. This is an effective technique for incompetent managers to hide their deficiencies. No wonder the likes of The Talking Horse/TCAS/FM's and well basically anyone in a mid-level management position, is useless at their job. They are probably faced with similar problems, and they gave up trying years ago. Although, I suspect many were hired only after the xrays revealed their lack of a spine.

There has been an attitudinal shift in HQ regarding pilots and cabin crew in general. It is a negative one. I said this before the latest AD debacle and I think we are only now seeing the affects. It will get worse, I am certain of it.

Just read the latest fleet up-date.

It just gets better, AD's can now be rostered up to 6pm by crew control, not 5pm as it says in the FOM...and that's a quote....sorry unless we get a FCI stating that they can go and get stuffed (nearly wrote fecked:}).

These fleet updates,e-mails, newsletters are an absolute joke. Changes to policy, FOM ,FCTM all sent by un-approved means.

Changes are supposed to come by FCI, FCN or Notam. Something which the authority has seen or has some sort of say in, not from the tea boys weekly e-mail.:ugh::ugh::ugh:

I have been with EK for 6+ years and have never felt the need to express my displeasure to management before, however enough is enough. Have just sent my feelings through to Ed by way of an Email. I don't expect a reply ( more like a phone call for tea and biscuits ) but I hope it makes him think.

I urge all the rest of you that sit and read this thread to actually do something positive and put pen to paper, don't make it threatening or rude, just list your grievances and ask for an explanation.

The more people that write the more he may realise the strength of feeling amongst his pilots.

Just checked the ekallpilots group and read EDs answer to a good fellow soul's mail.
Well, there goes the well intended "we should all politely vent our frustrations to management, maybe......"
It is painfully clear now, that fear reigns in the upper floors. They will not listen for the slightest second as they just became aware, that the crisis will hit them first. EK will need pilots to move aircraft, but they don't need morons in the office. Unless they carry a whip and play drill sergeants.

Two lessons we learned today:

Our bosses have their pants down to their ankles out of fear for their job. Their only concern is to be usefull by proving that the blame lies further down. Nothing to be excpected from this side but the boot.

EK has returned to the leadership model of their ancestors. Divide and rule at its purest. Nothing to be expected from their side but the blame.

What to do?
I no longer know. Write and protest? Futile, see above.
My earlier proposition to show them failure by statistic? Futile. They are incapable of interpretation. Arrogance precedes the great fall.

Unfortunately they will miss this huge opportunity to gain a larger piece of the pie, even if it gets smaller. They will go down as one of the first, as the outside world will turn admiration into malicious pleasure.

Set up your way out.

Having just read the same reply from Mr Ed, perhaps I should redraft the last paragraph of my earlier post, if not delete it.

I'm reminded why I decided quite some years ago that it was useless writing reports to management.

Ladies 'n Gents

We have ou'selves a little Mexican Standoff brewin' here...

145 QRH - I agree with you wholeheartedly Sir! No AD assignments upon making a telephone call at 1800 instead of 1700. Our good hearted A380 CP has made an unintentional error here... He must not be obeyed! The FOM rules here 'n for our brethren who don't seem to know or care: The FOM can only be modified by an FCI (or formal FOM amendment or re-issue)... NOT a memo, fleet update, telephone conversation, FCN, email, personal snail mail, tea 'n bikkies, or smoke signal. The reason management ain't issuin' an FCI is because they go to the DGCAA as part of the FOM protocol... figger the consequneces 'a that out yerselves.

Wiley - MBWA is an old style trick 'n most a us old timers ain't ever bought in to. Hell, when AS did it, ya couldn't even see him o'er the counter top! It's patronisin' as hell and this kinda perverted noblesse oblige is either not understood fer what it is by those too dumb ta know better or despised by those o' us who do as the crass oportunism it really is... it was used effectively in Commonwealth Armed Forces, mostly on tha' ground and trench monkey types, with good effect ta raise morale. I seen it a few times in various companies o'er tha years. It's not appropriate fer professional pilots. But, who says that this company thinks we're professionals when our immediate AB fleet mangler is a former BA ground agent and airplane wrench monkey? These kindsa messages within' the message are what really count. Like the great comms theorist Marshal McLuhan said: "It's the medium that is the message..."

Well, I'm off ta git my sense a hope restored an maybe my AUW reduced by a few grams... heh heh heh... I reckon' it's a good night fer a few glasses a heavy fuel and some good 'ol Hank. Maybe a little ol' CSNY jes' ta get a little a that ol' feelin' back... HOPE that is, it's damn elusive 'round here these days.

happy contrails!

could someone post Ed's reply as shown on the EKallpilots forum so that those that doen't subscribe get an insight into the way he thinks.

thanks in advance

Don't worry - I've read it now.

To the one considering posting Ed reply :
 

It is very tempting to post his ridiculous reply but don't know if it is very safe it do this. Remember there is a confidentiality clause in the FOM. Wouldn't be surprised if they'd spend a million or 2 to find out who did it after the showdown of who is in charge at EK...

To anyone considering joining EK in the future. Make sure you read last week posts about the coup by our dear management.
Life is pretty different now, with the new roster rules in place. When the dark clouds are gone, I'm outta here.
No thanks : no slavery for me.

For those paranoid amongst you, fear not, they would have to get a court order from a US judge. Its been on the Yahoogroups, so is in the public domain anyhow.

EGGW

I've said it before......... I think many people in EK make the mistake of thinking that the management give a sh*t about us, they don't..... simple as that, they are just doing as they are told to protect their meesly jobs.

I have seen Mr. Ed in a meeting and he is as big a kn*b as we think he is, but it's AAR that's behind all this

In brief: there seems to be an issue with where in the solar system you reside, and about your being misinformed about the latter. :)

kingoftheslipstream

You bring up good points regarding the issue of FOM changes being incorrectly implemented and enforced by FLT OPS mismanagement.

Have you raised or considered raising ASRs on these violations in order to force their attention to the UAE GCAA?

It would appear that the e-gate at the new HQ is actually a Stargate, and the reason there's a shortage of accommodation for newly hired pilots is that Dr Elizabeth Weir and her SG companions have yet to drain the new wing at Atlantis. (Not the Atlantis out on the end of the Palms, but the interplanatary Atlantis - where, apparently, we all live.)

AAR would be Michael then.
Ally when it suits him, blood sucking alien when it's worth more.
ED and TCAS the dummies with the masks .....

you guys need to out more often

Just as an aside, if the company is truly fat on pilots, not the BMI35 type, then why is it running two recruitment groups this week on 1st and 2nd Feb.

Uncle Adel is pissed off and has spat his dummy, thats all