PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Middle East (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east-44/)
-   -   Profit - but you got to work more!! (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/358209-profit-but-you-got-work-more.html)

etops777 18th Jan 2009 07:20

It was quiet on the open time but since the announcement of the new restrictions, there has been 6 open flights!

Guessed people are pressing 2 now...

dofus 18th Jan 2009 08:08

According to "Capt. America" I understand that the increase in AD's was a compromise between certain management levels to prevent the furloughing of the bottom 100 pilots from the seniority list. Apparently its a small price to pay ! What f@@kin planet is this complete t@@t on ? He has obviously been playing golf with Capt Ed again - must have got his golf ball stuck up Ed's arse !:*

Fugazi 18th Jan 2009 08:55

dofus...spot on. How dare B M suggest 100 guys/girls would be furloughed. What evidence does he have to support this? How dare he put the frighteners on the 100 most junior Pilot's in the Company without backing up his supposed inside information. He should be held in utter contempt by the pilot community. As if he hasn't done enough damage already......:sad:

Andu 18th Jan 2009 09:07

Can someone draw me a logic line showing how 2000 pilots working more days each month will make it easier for the company not to be forced to lay off 100 pilots? In my twisted logic, (which I admit may be flawed), it would seem at first glance - (unless the people on ADs are not to be used) - that making everyone work more days each month would make the lay offs more likely.

Sory BM, but when I saw the source of your message, I (apparently like quite a few others) discounted its contents immediately. Your reputation as a one-eyed, brown nosed company apologist precedes you.

fliion 18th Jan 2009 10:42

Andu,

The only thing i can think of is that the policy is put in place to handle the coming deliveries of new airplanes. The most recent range number I have heard is it is now going to 12-17 for 2009.

By utilising the current pilots to the fullest extent perhaps they will mitigate the need to hire more and thus save money - purely my own speculation.

I would be very angry indeed with the latest concession imposed on us if it were not for the fact that FedEx and Delta are furloughing as stated in the official company email.

(p.s. I have friends at both who say it's news to them - as of today at least)

Perhaps the writer of that completely false statement will have the integrity to rescind and apologise to all its recipients for this inaccuracy.

Gents, the fact is - the current economic environment is very challenging and while the company did well we shared in the spoils so there is a side to me that wants to help.

However asking people to sacrifice while providing false or speculative information on other companies is wrong and undermines the credibility and pretext for the policy change even if is it legit.

A tad amateur.

f.

fatbus 18th Jan 2009 12:35

He's Ed's sailing buddy. Ed tells him what to leak and sit back and see the results, than change FOM/SOP/Staff Travell etc

pool 18th Jan 2009 12:39

I am quite disgusted by the people surrounding us.

The two bosses are blatantly telling lies, just to give their stupid changes a fig leaf. Beeing so obviously false, these lies only uncover their character deficiencies.
And then their spit-bowl-holder BM ....
-> supplemental AD iso day-off to save a buddy's job?????
Another one on the list of no-go for private flights.


EK managers and bowl-holders:
If you decide to put some more crap upon us, at least be men and have the decency of telling in our faces that you wanted so and why.


Open declared war has always been the honorable thing, terrorism hasn't

dofus 18th Jan 2009 13:38

Check out the EK Yahoo email groups and you will see BM's email response and his "inside information " as to the reason behind the increase in AD's on the rosters. He knows all the wrong people in all the right places !

disconnected 18th Jan 2009 13:43

So tell us the basics.... What is behind it?

Gulf News 18th Jan 2009 15:10

Ok here it is. Edited only to comply with forum rules.



Rumor has it the AD days for the next couple of months were a compromise between certain levels of management to prevent the furloughing of the bottom 100 pilots.

Seems like a small price to pay so guys can continue to feed their families.... ....

BM
Staff No. somewhere between 322826 and 322824
Me thinks that our talking horse is actually two clowns in a horse costume. Ed is the talking mouth and BM (ANA) Capt. America (ANA) Tartan guy the talking Ar_e.

On his road to stardom he gets my vote for the Golden Najm with chairmans award and bar for having the thickest skin. This is one sad mupppet who just doesn't get it.:D

fourgolds 18th Jan 2009 17:49

Does not compute. I have a mate coming for an interview in January !!!!

fourgolds 18th Jan 2009 17:52

correction , he,s interview is in Feb !!! go figure.

Panther 88 18th Jan 2009 23:32

Girls Girls,
This new policy is PURE punishment for our ASRs and forcing the company's hand in regard to rest facilities and policies. It defies logic and makes no sense whatsoever-so what else could it be?

Capt. A says it is to prevent furloughs. Bulls't. We may be overmanned but aircraft continue to come, recruitment is making noise, and frequencies to profitable cities will increase. So if we furlough a hundred or so guys it would have been for a short time, they would have to move them out of accommodations, revoke their visas, send them home and then a few months later, rehire them, do their visas again and ramp up their training.

What difference does it make if we have 12 days of or 20 days off if we fly the hours demanded? What difference does it make if we add 5 days to leave or 12 days, as long as we fly and are credited with appropriate hours?

Logic is lost on our perfumed princes in the new puzzle palace. They out and out LIED about Delta and FedEx furoughing pilots. Delta is in fact looking at hiring this year. This is a move by a small minded management to show us who remains in charge. AS and Mr. Ed know this and their hands are tied and this shows how little effect they have on policy.

PUNISHMENT, gentlemen, plain and simple. "We'll show those uppity pilots who really is in charge."

The sh## bucket is now filled. And to think I once defended and promoted this company. Alternatives are being looked at.

fatbus 18th Jan 2009 23:39

You are owned by AAR and he wants 22 days /month of service, he will get even if it means 22 AD's/month.

allaru 19th Jan 2009 06:36

and loving it...99
 
Panther and fatbus you are spot on. And if you go back you'll see that this entire situation was correctly predicted by Gulf News in the crew rest laughable thread.

http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/35...ughable-3.html

emratty 19th Jan 2009 08:11

Emirates have made many changes to working conditions over the years (most of them for the worst) however this one has blown all of the others out of the water. It is a PATHETIC way by the managers and their sidekicks (yes that includes you BM) to exert control over us and to remind us that if we complain about safety issues i.e the crew rest they can and will scr:mad:w us as much as they like.
I am sure most of us appreciate the need to help out in these economic times but this new rule does not make one bit of difference to productivity it only serves to alianate the pilot group which if the company are trying to save money is a really bad idea. Direct routings,optimum levels, OFP fuel, no reverse, single engine taxi why Fu:mad:king bother?????

5star 19th Jan 2009 08:31

So we have a Trojan Horse in the yahoo groups...
It might be a good idea to temper the background noise in certain emails surfacing in recent days.

fourgolds 19th Jan 2009 10:06

OK so there are rumblings about unpaid leave , how all the airlines are laying off pilots etc. However recruitment is still on going.!!!
So we will continue to worsen the pilots conditions ( using the global downturn as a perfect excuse ( yet we are still profitable) , paycuts etc are all possibilites). If the pilots leave , we have many more in the pipeline..

We will trim trim trim the their package , we have the upper hand and we know it.

Hold on boys , its going to get a lot worse. Remember all these amendments to our contracts were done during the good times. The bad times have truly arrived. We have absouloutely no recourse , apart from a memories like elephants for when the good times come back . ...and they will.

Greed caused this in the first place and Greed will destroy this Airline too.
Just watch , even from a distance. Boooooom the bubble will burst !!

a747jb 19th Jan 2009 12:09

Well everyone, I can't agree more with all the posts, but there is one thing that everyone is forgetting, and so is EK management. The airplanes are still coming and they will need to fill these seats. In my honest opinion, and I am sure many will disagree, we do have one major benefit that will help us in the long run, and they have made no secrets about it. Most of our applications are from North America and particularly the US. Now as to completely get my ass chewed on here I am sure, I am from the US, and I know one thing for sure, Americans value quality of life!!! I am pretty sure they won't get all the furloughed mainline guys they think are going to come flocking over here, not anymore at least. I know of 3 of my buddies personally that when I told them about the new schedule changes, they said they would rather wait it out in the US (2 were from ATA and 1 from Aloha) Why you ask did they say this, the answer, and god bless America for 1 thing, UNEMPLOYMENT pay :) In the short term, they are making enough to survive and they won't come over for 12 days off and reserve every month (an AD is reserve if you ask me). In fact, I think many would get out of aviation before they did that. So, to all you Americans and all of those of you who know Americans, spread the word. To everyone else from everywhere else, spread the word also. If you come to EK, you get 12 days off, and the rest is filled in with reserve :) We won't see this rule change for a while, but it will when they need to hire again!!! Welcome to Dubai

Sonny Hammond 19th Jan 2009 13:19

and have a nice day.

kingoftheslipstream 19th Jan 2009 13:31

The FOM can only be modified by an FCI.

The rostering rules are contained in Ch 2 and they lay out some pretty specific information on Reserve Duty and Available Days. I think we might be able to read the rules correctly and apply them. :bored:

Schibulsky 21st Jan 2009 11:19

NCC changes
 
To lose face or respect...you have to have it in the first place!
And to prove that he is thinking with the wrong end of his body he ordered that all early shifts have to start at 0700:eek:
So they all can join the morning traffic jam at the parking and enjoy 20min of creeping to the top floors:ugh::ugh::ugh:
Prepare yourself for more :mad: to come!!

Schibulsky 21st Jan 2009 11:36

...here is another brilliant one:
The access to the parking will be controlled by new cards.
Everybody has to copy car registration, drivers license and provide further info like cell phone nbr, car colour, car manufacturer etc. on countless lists.
Most of that is readily available to the company and could be just programmed to the chip of the company ID :ugh::ugh::ugh:
Is there really no limit to stupidity!!:{
Keep discovering:ok:

5star 21st Jan 2009 15:13

more to come.
 
It doesn't look good fellow aviators....
This AD issue will only be the beginning...

Latest rumors : ALL Boeing deliveries (18 to go in 09) will be delayed until f.n. from February onwards.
Cabin recruitment will also be completely stopped in the next month....
Lets see how secure your and my job is....

White Knight 21st Jan 2009 16:15

5* - I doubt the 777's will be delayed very much.. Lots of rumours but they are just that!! Now's the time that the company should be thinking big, grab the market by the balls and all that... At least if Timmy's 'we are unstoppable' is going to carry any weight:ugh:

Straight & Level 22nd Jan 2009 04:53

5 Star - I also doubt that Cabin Crew recruitment will stop in the next month if the advert in todays 7 Days is anything to go by. Stranger things have happened though!

BigGeordie 22nd Jan 2009 05:32

They can't stop cabin crew recruitment, although they could cut back and only hire enough to replace the people who leave- I doubt anybody is hanging on for the profit share this year. Seems unlikely though, as does delaying delivery of new aircraft at such short notice. Remember, Emirates still has money in the bank and now is a great time to be out shopping.

145qrh 22nd Jan 2009 07:43

So Emirates are going to stop recruitment ? maybe even give some unpaid leave?

Yet they still cant give everyone the leave they are entitled too.

Their target is only to give everyone 30 days per year, well short of our "contractual" 42 days.

The pr***s seem delighted with this, especially since some have even got more that 30..

I'm glad at this moment to be in a "fairly" secure job, but I for one can't wait to be out of this shytehole.

Let the good time roll....sometime soon please

vindaloo30000ft 22nd Jan 2009 10:00

NCC loss of 50% of rest time
 
after a little breifing yesterday theirs not enough expletives to describe whats being said about nasty dish dash with no brain and the peon dc, from lower grade staff to manager level. they say its the peons lack ability to manage crew control and his own staff that have shone this spotlight down from the 9 floor so now everyone pay the price. only reason this have been put in place against the advice and wish of every manager involved and hr is to f*** the staff - its clear arab managers think this brings results but its up to us to show it does not - C:mad:T

Bird On 22nd Jan 2009 10:57

Well the February rosters are indeed a work of art. :rolleyes::eek::{

A crew controllers dream come true.....an airline pilots worst nightmare (well one of them anyway :) ).

Schibulsky 22nd Jan 2009 11:27

@bird on
divide and conquer...rings any bell?
If you think the crew controllers are happy now...with max 4 full days off a month, max 2 days in a row and max 8 days alltogether...think again!!:ugh:
Better take on the management than venting your anger at the poor sods!
We ALL get screwed big time, the last thing we need now is playing into their hand by fighting each other.:=

Flying Spag Monster 22nd Jan 2009 13:39

Schibulski, help me out here. I assume your previous 4 days on was all the same shift? How does the 6 on work, do you go from day to swing to graveyard shift every two days or stay in the same shift for all 6?

Schibulsky 22nd Jan 2009 18:21

The 4on/4off shifts were 2 day and 2 nite, so you had 1 day to sleep and 3 full days for the family or friends.
Now the roster is 2 early, 2 late, 2 nite and after sleeping out you got just one full day off b4 starting again with early shift.
They will probably try some minor changes but thats basically it :ugh::ugh:

a747jb 23rd Jan 2009 05:03

So the long and short of it is is that 1 man just single handedly pissed off the ENTIRE employee group. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I will gladly trade my tiny little piece of whatever profit share we might or might not get to totally f... this guy off getting anything from his big share. At least now it will be a coordinated employee effort from all levels to fight back, not just one group. By the time this is said and done there will be no face to save, but hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Just pass it along to everyone else to remember that we (from pilots to crew control to rostering to the poor guys throwing bags) are ALL getting the shaft from management on this one.

Ghostflyer 23rd Jan 2009 09:34

Interesting views, many seem a little based in la la land; quite appropriate for Dubai.

The world is in the worst down turn since the 40s. The last time we were involved in this type of economic climate, after Sep 11, the situation went on for a few months. EK was effectively alone in the market, now there are 3 major regional airlines fighting over the spoils. Ek made cock all in the first half but will hopefully make a little more in this half; there will be no profit share. All of the major economies are in recession and will be for the foreseeable future. Dubai has a liquidity problem and at the moment we are committed to take another 17 aircraft this year. Much of our revenues come from markets where the currency has weakened against the dollar which means the revenue side of the balance sheet has fallen by in some places over 40% over the last 6 months. One of our biggest markets, the UK, has taken a 30% currency hit in the last year. The dwindling oil price has insulated us from the shock.

Looking forward, when do we realistically expect things to improve? 2010, 2011... By then if EK keeps expanding we will be in a loss making situation and retrenchment will take place. We have a good cash balance which will help us through the difficult times but in no way guarantee our future development. The fact is that we are not immune to the world situation, the are uncertainties about the UAE leadership and the way in which Dubai and Abu Dhabi will negotiate a bail out hang over EK's head.

Yep the theme of this thread, random AD insertion is silly but I think a few of us need to wake up and smell the coffee. Some difficult choices face us in the future and an expansionary strategy with the world economy as it is carries significant risk. The management don't take their decisions based upon the measley profit in the last quarter but rather on where they expect to be in the months to come. We have always believed we can survive and pick up the pieces in the future but now, in our own backyard, we are the poor relations. If the this recession is prolonged, anyone waiting for a job from EK will be unlucky. Recruitment has gone from around 300+ to 50 or so and I think we will rationalise the fleet and ditch some of the older aircraft to maintain the yields as the new aircraft arrive. But if you think our current modest profits mean we don't have to do anything you are sadly mistaken. The US realised several cycles ago that the only way to survive was to be ruthless over cost control and keep or make the operation as lean as possible. If that decision is delayed it becomes almost impossible to turn it around in time.

Over the coming months, ADs will be the least of our problems. I'll be keeping my powder dry for some more important battles that we will face in the future. You might not agree with me and this is only my opinion but I'd be interested if anyone can explain to me why we are going to be insulated from the down turn and offer a more optimistic view of the future.

Schnowzer:ugh:

fatbus 23rd Jan 2009 09:38

Fight back ,how would you suggest they do that?
Keep in mind its a mid east airline.

Sheikh Your Bootie 23rd Jan 2009 10:57

Ghostflyer habibi. No one here can doubt that cost must be controlled at these times. However, one man pissing off his whole workforce by implementing things which do NOT achieve cost savings, infact are more likely to cost EK money in the long run, by having a very demotivated workforce.

Most here @ EK are team players, except AAR it would seem :ugh::ugh::ugh: Tw@t.

SyB :zzz:

Schibulsky 23rd Jan 2009 11:03

@ghostflyer
You are right about the general situation but whats going on is not an attempt to solve the crisis TOGETHER but to rule with nothing but FEAR!!
Your AD is basically just aimed to force you into unpaid leave and to show you that they can do whatever they want:E
They put pressure on everybody just because they dare to discuss the issues.
There is no better way to use the resources than a 4/4 roster. Now they have no flexibility and pissed off employees.:D
I have never seen such pathetic display of mean spirited, clueless :mad: management before
...and for the fighting part...we might learn a lesson from the lowly drivers. There was an issue with no supply of drinking water in summer...ALL of them reported sick one morning:eek:
And what a surprise...that problem was solved within hours:ok:
Allthough I would never suggest that option for EK staff:=
But if you are treated like children...you might even react like one:{
@ fatbus: keep in mind we are not stupid!;)
Good luck everybody:p

Andu 23rd Jan 2009 12:05

Can somebody walk me step by step through the logic behind this latest piece of silliness? Apart from forcing me to buy more groceries in Dubai, (and pissing me off royally!!), what in the world are they achieving with what seems to be official policy now, a swag of days off, then one trip, all too often finishing after 2300 local, immediately before a pilot commences leave?

As for the 5 day off string restriction, it must actually be costing them money, as people who might spend money on a subload ticket (money that goes into the EK coffers and uses only a seat that would be otherwise empty) to go home are frequently forced to stay, increasingly embittered, in Dubai.

... to buy their groceries in Dubai. That's it! AAR is leading a supermarket-led recovery for the Dubai economy.

Can someone confirm, as I saw someone post on the all pilots group, that when he saw how many days off could be achieved by a pilot bidding for a 80 to 90 hour roster on multiple ULH flights, he said that such pilots were "stealing from the company"?

Schnowzer 23rd Jan 2009 12:35

KH,

Good spot, I changed my handle when I was the mod of the EK site.

So how do you deal with the policy. Whinging on PPrune I suspect won't do it so maybe it comes down to taking the opportunity to go to the newly announced weekly.

Ghostflyer Schnowzer Type Person:O


All times are GMT. The time now is 17:19.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.