Zero impact.... Zero Turmoil.

Just an unfortunate coincidence of events ... or is there more into it ? ...

I hear that all expats contracrpts henceforth will be terminated ( not renewed ) on reaching their natural completion.
Of course these are baseless rumors until I actually see or meet a pilot whose contract hasn't been renewed.
But any truth in this ?
Pray tell

I believe that the problem is, for the expats, that the company expresses no clear position towards us. Are we staying or are we going?

The reality is that foreign Pilots working for Saudia is a political hot potato. The country is at a very sensitive moment. It was previously stated by the company that all expat Pilots would be gone by 2020 and to give contracts beyond 2020 is not currently tenable.

I hired on in June '78; we were told there would be no expat crew left by the beginning of 1981. Sam

My parents both worked for Saudia in Jeddah from the early '70s to the late '80s and I recall my dad saying Nationalization was coming to the airline around 1987/88.

I just don't think it is possible in the Kingdom especially with the training involved to become a pilot at the commercial air transport level, combined with the low level of interest from actual Saudis.

I see it’s actually coming this time, although couple of years ago it didn’t look possible. Push from the highest level is strong. Plus CCQ which makes things naturally faster.
There may be some short time backtrack when they see aircraft parked because of the crew shortage, but the general direction is clear and technlogy for that is already around. First officers will definitely go first, followed by seniour captains (offered 40k basic salary contract or just restricted by age), then the rest.
It’s already happening. New low basic salary contract is offered at least to seniour captains and it’s only one year long despite proposed two. You cannot plan to stay in this job beyond one year horizon.
Consider also the general Saudi economic downturn and new more efficient companies on the market.
It’s time to pack bags. Saudia glorious expat story is history...

I think that it's very difficult to understand what they really want. Certainly they want to Saudiize the company as soon as possible. However I don't think that Saudia can produce more that 100 or so new Captains each year. The company currently receives one new aircraft every 10 days, each requiring 8-10 Captains. They also want to expand Flyadeal to 50 aircraft by 2020. They do need the Pilots they have.

I believe that there has been a lot of frustration in senior management with the expat Pilots regarding the Riyadh base. They see a lack of cooperation. A lot of apartments in Riyadh, rented by Saudia are unfilled. There is also frustration over the number of applications to Flyadeal.

In the end, my opinion of the way the Management are thinking is that the contract Pilots currently employed are either at the wrong base or in the wrong company. Saudia have enough Saudi "Saudia" Pilots based in Jeddah, they don't require contract Pilots for that role.

Romasik. Just a quick question.
Are you PERSONALLY aware of anyone who has been offered or who has signed the shortened contract or two year contract? Or is it simply rumours that you are quoting. Just curious.

Absolutely! One of my friends was just offered this 40.000 SAR basic salary one year contract. He is over 60 Gregorian thought. It may not apply to younger pilots. Not sure.
More then that, there are actually about 60 of them! Looks like different age groups, as it would be too much to have that big number of seniors only. I saw the list with their names in HR, when I went there to ask about my personal future. They didn’t even understand what I was talking about, as they were obviously overwhelmed with their current problem with these 60 guys.
The biggest issue at the moment is the end of the service money, which is based on the last basic salary. It was advised by the highest Fl Ops mangement not sign this new contract until they sort out how to pay the final exit bonus.
And just today I heard that two expat captains in their forties were not offered the new contract. This may be some personal issues, I guess, but it’s happening now and here. This job is not secure any more.

There were reasons other than Saudiization behind the younger guys not having their contracts renewed. Certainly one of them. Let's just say that they will no longer tolerate "no shows" or anything equivalent in severity.

Chaos
 

It’s an interesting time in the Kingdom, but the airline is in chaos for expats. Forced base transfers to RUH without the compensation stated in company manual, no overtime (which is where you make the real money), and everything is focused on cutting costs. 106 resignations in the last two weeks, including locals.

Also heard about 100 or so resignations. Everybody I talked to is actively looking for another job. It may not eventually materialize for some, but at the moment most of the guys are in a bailout mode. Many are already done with interviews and waiting for the job offer.
From the other hand the workforce reduction should not be that much painful as the passenger traffic is inevitably dropping. Expat numbers are already down by almost 2 million and by the end of 2018 is expected to reach 2.8. Saudis are also not flying much due to financial difficulties. You can see all this slowdown on streets of Jeddah and in Tahlia shops on weekends. They are far cry from the best days.
Looks like at least on Fl Ops level nobody is taking it into consideration yet. The planning is going as usual. But flights are being cancelled on daily basis with new aircraft keep coming and training going ahead, thus no overtime. I guess it will stabilize after some time on lower level probably with some aircraft orders cancellation.

@flaperon777, just saw someone’s extension that was for 6 months, but under the old terms and conditions.

Thanks Mutt.
May I request his age if possible.
Thanks.

On his 2nd extension, so just above 60.

What do you make of this ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/saud...-idUKL8N1NR4M5


Saudi returning to PROFIT ....????!!!!
��

Chinese airlines court disgruntled Cathay Pacific pilots with sky-high salaries | Arab News

Maybe they should come to Jeddah, I believe that they will find a lot of interested people

I worked for Saudia for many years, 2 times.
Was a great company back in the early 90's Flying and in FCGT early 2004-2006, after that and Phuket Air Saudia flights, which was sever dangerous , Ha Ha
Did some Air Atlanta flights also for Saudia.
Mutt can probably guess who I am Ha Ha.
Sad to read so many problems there now.
Saudia was the best of the best back in those days.
Hope they get it together soon, will always look back at Saudia as best choice I ever made .
But even the locals I worked for in FCGT was professional just no or little flying experience.
Felt like I was FCGT manual revision person.
Best of luck Saudia , thanks for the good memories.

Yep, I can..... not too many FCGT guys who were young enough to fly.

I Would tend to COMPLETELY agree with that statement !!

Whats the story with the -8F's, are they coming back with Saudia crew or contractors?

I heard a funny story that cargo now want to lease back the MD-11's after they were sold.

Yes It's happening. But as far as I see, they are going to let go people and going to run into serious shortage very soon.

I agree....

This China group thing (good idea in theory) won't work. The Chinese have too many legal restrictions on Pilots e.g. they won't hire Malaysian Pilots, they won't hire African Pilots or Pilots born in Africa. The medical screening is extremely complicated. The simulator screening is also very tricky and designed to fail a very high percentage. China is very much an individual thing, it works very well for a few but for the vast majority it doesn't work. It is for this reason that wages are pushed so high in China as Airlines compete for the very few Pilots who can make it work.

1 year and 6 months contracts rescinded, people getting called back to sign 2 year contracts.

Gulf Air did this kind of thing in the past, getting rid of expats in a frenzy, paying huge compensations in the process. A few months later they started cancelling leave and a couple of months later they started hiring expats again.

Resignations are reported to be in the region of 130-140..... thats over 20% of the expat flight deck in the last 3 months.

130-140 pilots ....????!!!! Wow !
Wonder where they'd be headed. I presume these numbers include Egyptians and Malaysians also?

There is a meeting coming up in RUH compound to address issues with expats, GM F and COO are gona be present. With not many takers for RUH base(amongst locals), they are afraid that there will be a mass exodus. Fact is that they need us.

Especially with their herculean training regime. IMHO expats are here for a while and its going to be hard for them to get rid of them completely.

Apart from the fear of mass exodus, basically that was what was said at the meeting. F/O's good to 2022. No upgrade ever though.

I recently saw some recruitment that is going on for Air Atlanta 747 SO Jeddah based. So this is primarily for the Saudia operations.

does anyone have some info regarding this SO position? TR bonding, salary, rostering etc?

And how is the mood there? I read that a lot of people are leaving saudia, is this the same for Atlanta?

That was always there, so nothing has changed in the written form. However the "caring employer" is no more.
I was chatting to a GM last night who will be massively affected by the huge crew losses, he was oblivious to the fact that so many had resigned. He was also of the impression that crews would love Riyadh once they moved there, I asked him how many of his staff would resign if they were moved to Riyadh, once he thought of that he changed the subject.

With the opening of the new terminal and the planned increase in operations, the loss of 160 mainly Captains plus the annual retirements, next summer looks as if it will be a unmitigated disaster.

This scenario should help them clear the backlog of Saudi FOs waiting for upgrade and, as a result, help with their Saudization goals.

You are right VAMY but this time it’s only 2 months notice in the New contract !!!

I haven’t seen it myself too. But I was told it is 2 months notice , for all contract renewals.

Another 30 A320 guys forced based to Riyadh starting 01 Feb...... Will the last person in Jeddah please turn off the lights.

Whats the seniority (year) of the most senior?

Got it... around seniority 11012xxx

on another note, the famous faker is seen to be there, 330 Capt....good luck with him

We all know that you are talking about GBA, but to be fair, he did pass the Saudia 330 training in about 6 weeks which is close to a record.

well thats impressive, there was an Eastern bloke that aso "passed the training" for 20 years, until it was discovered he didnt have a license, where do you think an insurance claim would have left them???

passing the training make it ok?