Happy at Emirates?
 

You guys on here are starting to frighten me!

I have an interview next month but I'm begining to wonder if I'm wasting my/their time.

Every time I look on here there's someone complaining about the rosters/routes/accommodation/pay...........etc. etc.

So I'd just like to hear from anyone who's happy at EK please....there must be somebody surely!:confused:

Thank you,

skysod.

(this should b interesting):)

Now why would you think that there are any "happy" pilots out of the 2000 that are here?:)

I'm not unhappy here and as I have said before the correspondents on prune are not necessarily a scientific sampling but most of them do have real concerns.

The positives as I see them (in no specific order & not an exhaustive list) are as follows:
Job security, upgrade possibilities, medical coverage, good equipment, chauffeur driven to and from work, the housing, schooling, the awesome view while crossing the Himalayas, and the money is ok (unless you have Euro expenses) but maybe not reflective of the market.

The negatives are well known to anyone who reads prune regularly. The biggest problem is also the biggest advantage. Growth and the management thereof. Due to the exponential growth the company has a policy of doing more with less because they can't hire people quickly enough. In my opinion a short/medium/long/ultra-long haul carrier has no business trying to get it's crews (cockpit & cabin) to fly to/and beyond the legal limit (and actively trying to increase that limit) and this is why a job that used to be a 10 or 15 year commitment might only be a 5 or 10 year commitment now.

IMHO

Scaglietti

You're going to hear lots of opinions, as have been stated many times on this site. I'd say way over 50% of the guys here are quite unhappy as "the package" keeps deteriorating. A lot of it depends on where you come from too. If you have a command in the near future and you like your home country, you'd be a fool to come here in my opinion. But for some, this place is a huge step ahead.

I think it comes down to money and conditions and neither are on the up and up. To be paid less today as a captain than being an FO 5 years ago is a farce. That is in most currencies outside the Dirham of course. Plus, no one is holding out much hope for any big improvement with the upcoming pay review.

I guess to put it fairly, it's not all bad but I'd say at least 75% are counting the days to get outta here, myself being one of them. If you think you're coming for a 15+ year career, to be honest, you'll be kidding yourself.

Good luck with your choice.

CO

skysod, I've enjoyed my time with EK, but I'm afraid I'm very much on the countdown. A new joiner asked me a month or two ago what I did on my days off and I surprised myself with my answer. Whereas a few years ago, I could have rattled off any number of things I did with my family, after pausing and considering what I now do on my days off, I replied "I sleep."

The company has grown hugely in the last few years, to the point where you can go for some time without crossing paths with another pilot you know. However, when you do, for me at least, it's usually a surprise to find how old and haggard everyone is looking. People 10 years younger than I am have grey hair and look exhausted.

I don't know how anyone in his early 40s could even fleetingly think he could maintain the current level of work we do for another 20 years and maintain is health.

skysod
 

:)
Good:
new aircrafts
great network
good career prospects
free pick up and drop off from work
medical coverage (free for you, small charge for family)
poor pension/provident fund
school partially paid (max 3 childs and up to 80ish%)

:\
Bad:
package gets lower and lower by 2digit's inflation in Dubai
if you need to send money home (mortgage, etc.) (pay is pegged to us dollar)
very hot 4 months out of the year
you need to plan to put money aside for your pension (personally 5% salary)
bonus average 4-5 weeks pay

It is always good to see it for yourself.
Good luck for the interview.

:ok:

I heard someone the other day use the term, Most Captains are 'planning thier exit strategy'. Think that about sums it up.Its a job not a career.The bucket plan seems to be most guys plan and the non money one is filling fast, dont think the money bucket is going to change much come mid Apr ( bonus? pay raise? ). It has been good up to now for me, but living in DXB has become hard. As a pilot all you are is a skilled labourer and as such treated so. We use to be treated a bit better. Dont leave a good job to come or you will regret it, if you need a job than consider it.

Bear in mind that the type of person who is going to spend time on an internet forum commenting on their T&C's are more than likely those who are unhappy with the job.

Don't forget to involve your family, if you have one. For many wives it's a big challenge to adapt to the insane Dubai day-to-day living. Some wives never like it and leave after a while. No doubt everyone is putting his health at risk with all the dust and toxic fumes around here...
To be honest living here is the hardest part of the job for me and my family.

If you're single and you like partying: different story...

As to EK :
More than half of your check-ins will be around 1am. It messes up your body clock. I'm struggling more than in my previous airliner to stay fit. If you like hand flying don't even think of coming here. I miss that aspect of flying a lot though they restricted this some time ago with a good reason: most of us are sleeping dummies on arrival.....
And money wise... With the current dollar woes this must now be one of the worst paid heavy jobs in the industry. Might be temporary....donno.
3yrs to 4yrs to Command depending on the fleet. You'll need the captains pay to save some money....

Don't confine yourself to just the "happy chappies" but when you do listen to those more negative, get past the emotions and look closely at why. Some are happy because:

• The job is better than what they came from.
• The equipment is big and new.
• The flying is interesting - you will see more of the world than at most other jobs.
• Company provided accommodation.

Some reasons why others aren't happy:

• The high rate of inflation vs. the declining value of the dirham/dollar.
• Poor consultation by our management in taking decisions that directly affect our quality of life and working conditions.
• Complete disregard by our management of serious fatigue issues. This includes poor rest facilities on the aircraft and trip schedules and layovers that violate some of the most basic tenets of fatigue management and safety.
• To expand on the previous point - 24 hour layovers after flights exceeding 17 hours in length. Most appalling about this is that their own "approved" ULR FTL document prohibits this, yet they do it anyway. It says a lot about the quality of regulation here.
• Flight Time Factoring. Again, a roster and fatigue issue whereby, your time spent in the bunk on a long haul flight does not count towards Flight Time Limitations. The result being that you could be rostered well in excess of 120 hours per month. My understanding is that it is not being used in a big way right now but expect it to be employed more and more in the coming months as the company reduces its recruitment targets for budgetary reasons.

I'm sure other can add a lot to either list. The point is that you need to do your homework on the specific issues and decide if it makes sense. I've flown with quite a few new FO's coming from smaller (RJ's) equipment who looked across the table at me with their jaws agape as I recounted specific rostering practices. They too only wanted to talk to the "happy pilots" before coming here. Come out for your interview, get as much information as you can and compare it with your current situation. If you make an informed decision to come, you will most likely count yourself among the happy. If you allow yourself to only consider the positives, you will find the negative issues looming larger in your psyche once you have been here a while.

Two questions for EK pilots please:

1. If you go to EK and get 777 type and flight time and then want to leave, where do you go then with that great type and flight experience? Direct entry at another ME 777 operator or maybe Singapore? Isn't it same type of flying but now you are junior? Would you go back to Europe on Easyjet or Ryanair after flying 777?

2. Will EK get new cargo 747-800s and will EK or Atlas pilots fly them?

Thank you for responses.

I'm happy but my bbq runs every night and I always have a rum and coke nearby. :ok:

Iver:
sorry not an EK pilot but depending on your life style, with B777 time you could try PARC and Vietnam Airlines (6 weeks on 2 weeks off), not sure now but used to be good some years ago? That's some pretty long term planning maybe I should try it some day!!! :ugh:

Question to EK First officers:

I am thinking about joining EK soon as the company I fly for do not upgrade expat F/Os and I want to fly new equipment, averaging 10.5USD (Wide body med Haul) no tax. I am happy with my life now (except life long f/o)
So i am thinking not to join EK now because their money not good and work to hard? I might wait a little longer? maybe conditions improve no?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will EK get 747-800s and will EK pilots fly them or will Atlas fly aircraft? When will arrive?

When I saw this thread, I thought I'd add some witty, oh so clever remark to the debate.

... but I'm just too tired (constanty, truth be told, over the last year or so) to come up with one.

most probably, Atlas pilot will fly the 747-800.
But you never know in Ek ... things changes by the minute ... see LCC and use of the mobile phone in flights ...

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time and trouble to reply.

Regards,

skysod.

I was at the EK roadshow at LGW, and i think they mentioned.... but not 100% sure, that the 747-8F will be crewed by EK drivers.

The 747/8 will be crewed by EK drivers.
Still deciding if CCQ's from the 777.

I am happy here because of several reasons; the aircraft are new(ish), the routes are varied (as in I get to go to lots of interseting places), I am in the left seat (so can afford to live but struggled as an F/O), and mist importantly my wife is happy here:)

However accomodation dept is a mess & most dealings with it are futile:ugh: Construction is everywhere and drives you crazy whenever you want to sleep for a flight.

Depending where you come from & what you are hoping for I would recommend it here.

IVER..
After you have your wide body type stamped on your license and your command hours there is not much here to make you stick around if you come from a safe place to live. After you gain the above the money is simply not enough. The seniority has only a tiny impact. EK has a rotating seniority system and they now have restrictions on how many days off in a row you can bid for when in the top bid groups and manually insert trips on your roster to maximize the work you will do, so commuting is not an option. You will earn slightly more more money with seniority but you will eventually view this as not enough. Time will tell.

777 ccq to 748 but not mff, crewing in the hands of skycargo if you can believe that

fatbus
 

Sorry fatbus, can you make it more clear? thanks
Mfan

B777 pilots will also be qualified to operate HS 748 twin turboprop "budgies"

When you come here to work......

Remember where you are, who you work for, then go with the flow !

I don't believe ccq or mff applies to B777 and B74-8. It will be a short course to convert but I have it on good authority that Boeing chose not to make the two fleets compatible because most of their potential buyers would be B747-400 operators and would prefer the ability to cross qualify crews between the two types.

It is also my understanding that a final decision on who will fly the freighters has not been made yet. They are probably waiting for a decision on the B74-8 pax version.

Ive been here here for 18 months. On the whole I think it is pretty good. Kids love it. My Wife is still getting use to it but definitely as time goes by she is beginning to enjoy it too.
You have to get involved here and keep yourself busy, and as far as I am concerned there is is plenty to do. I am from the UK and was flying widebody before I joined for a UK carrier. This is better! 3 years to command is not a bad incentive...
You do have a lot of late checkins but doing long haul in most places that is the case. People are very quick to knock EK but ask yourself the question "where is it better?" The pay might be declining against the week dollar, but factor in free house, schooling, good medical care, getting picked up from your house everytime you go go to work and the overall package is hard to beat!
Don't listen to all the negative nonsence you read on here. In by view most of the negative aspects could be applied to any airline in some way or another.
If your thinking of applying, give it a go and you might be pleasantly surprised!

If not you'll have left any seniority, lifestyle, home and friends back at home and be stuck here for several years.

A great deal of the 'negative nonsense' is posted from bitter experience.

Come here with your eyes wide open :eek: and and see it for what it really is and not the spin that a great deal of money has been put in to create.

There is nothing given here for free:

• The house? Where else are you going to stay?
  
• Schooling? When there is space it may not be at the school of your choosing and the 'allowance does NOT cover the costs 100%.
  
• Medical care? You and your family will need it.
  
• The transport to and from work? You will be in no fit state to drive yourself after you get back from a trip.

As for the 74-8... the 787 delays will have an impact on delivery.

Haveago, habibi. At the moment you are in the honeymoon phase, your two buckets are fairly shiny, the happiness one is stiil pretty full.
The smelly one with the flies, is rather empty, but trust me the flies will increase as time goes on, as will the contents :( You are a newbie, promotion still to come, reality awaits inshallah!

SyB :zzz:

If people are so unhappy here why not leave?:confused:

its not as though there ain't plenty of jobs available in other parts of the world.

Mind you I heard all the same complaints when working in London ;)

They have left and others are trying to.

The point is that it takes a great deal of time, effort and expense to come here in the first place and it is not that easy to just leave once you have gone through it... in fact is very hard and expensive. This is not another job just down the road where if you don't like it you just move on. It is far more complex than that and Emirates know it and manipulate it to their advantage.

BE WARNED.

Like anything in life some people like things that others hate. There are certainly worse jobs in aviation, and there are better as well. Dubai is what it is, you either learn to live with it or become a bitter unhappy expat.

No one can tell you wether you are going to be one of the ones that like it here or one of the ones that don't. Like any expat job you really won't know until you come here and live it for a few years. There are guys that have been here 6 months and hate it, there are guys that have been here 10+ years and still like it. All depends on you and your family really. EK can change the situation for the worse by messing with rosters and pay etc, but you just have to move on once you have reached your limit. That is a different point for everyone. It ain't all roses, but it sure isn't as bad as some would have you believe either.

If your family is on the adventurous side and you don't like where you work now, then its worth the try and see what you think IMHO.

Pension Plan
 

PLUS

Company accommodation - provided it is given where you are happy - the lottery and you cannot easily buy another ticket.
(Move out and buy your own place some have- and then sell- a nice return on your investment but it will be eroded away as the company accommodation is 50% of actual cost and you will be paying at least $2000USD per month to make up the difference on a modest compromise)
Schooling
Good Equipment
Great crew to fly with
Nice Lifestyle

MINUS
If you want to include your pension plan as part of lifestyle - long-term- then lifestyle is a big minus for EK pilots

Pension- Due to a neat trick with flight pay the pension is being eroded as quickly as the USD is falling. Years ago the UAE Nationals saw that the pension plan in EK offered no long term security so they sensibly withdrew.

To make yourself happy in EK never strike a conversation with your friends in Cathay or Dragon Air about how they use the company accommodation allowance to pay off substantial real estate they have purchased.

After 15 years in Emirates your total pension is with $350K USD Including your own 1/3 contribution to that.

Traffic

Management with no real attempted dialogue with pilots- no meetings in three years.

A CCQ ( cross cockpit quailification ) is a short cousre but varies between the types, MFF mixed fleet flying allows you to fly more than one type ( that are simlar)

The 777 to 748 are not simlar for MFF

Sky Cargo is tasked to determine the cheapist way to operate the 748, thatwill determine how flys them

Sorry S-Y-B, but I've done over five years myself and still enjoy the job! Yes, I was accused of the old 'honeymoon phase' and the 'rose tinted specs' when I first came too..

What makes the job for me is the guys I fly with. 99.99% are top guys and - dare I say it - generally good operators too. I like the variety, I get to fly three different types of aeroplane, interesting network (short haul around Europe got a little tedious!) and I don't mind checking in for a flight at 00:15 - guess I'm one of the lucky few that can sleep six hours in an evening..

Sure, there are things that need to change - noticeably the salary! Long term the Greenback will rise once the Yanks have sorted out their trade defecit. In the meantime at least 30% is needed to combat inflation - glad I've got no foreign mortgage too, that would be interesting. I can see why some guys can't stand it here, and full marks to those that put their money where their mouths are and find a good job elsewhere - best of luck to them!

There's still a lot to see and do here (not always costing a lot either) if you can bother to get off your fat ar*e and do it.. I'm here for quite a while yet...

OK GUYS! After having read all this, explain to me since I have an EK interview coming up shortly how I would need to approach this opportunity. I try to be open 'positively' minded it seems that there's more negative than positive as far as I have read. I currently work for a famous low-cost European carrier as an F/O (not FR). Need some advice!! The money would be a important factor. MANY THANKS!!

Boeing chose not to make the two fleets compatible (B777 and B74-8) because most of their potential buyers would be B747-400 operators and would prefer the ability to cross qualify crews between the two types.

And end up like the B737NG?, they still haven't learnt yet, but will the B787 be the same flight deck as B747-800? Now there is a smart idea.

White Knight Habib. I am also enjoying my time here, but the smelly bucket is filling up faster than the happiness one.
When i say this think

• ULR flights with min rest and poor rest facilities
• Poor or no villas for new joiners
• No consultation with management. Except their mates on the golf course, who seemingly complain about minimal days off on bottom bid
• Reduction in max days off for those on top bid groups, because AAR can't stand the thought that we might be happy with the system. Commuters will leave in droves post bonus payout

Of course if you happy with that and more, bravo for you!! :ugh:

SyB :zzz:

Happy?!
 

Just seen my Apr roster. High bid group, bid the same way I have for years. The new result "in the interest of safety" no more than 2 days off in a row, and a lot of turnaround flights that I have never received in my top bid months.

I'm not the sort to react out-of-hand but ooh that bucket seems to be getting heavier. I may have to take the advice of some of the other correspondents and just press 2.

Scaglietti:uhoh::confused: