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Middle East lost its golden touch!!
Of all the other world airline forums, the M E has the 2nd largest usage (behind Africa). Well Africa has it's problems, NO MONEY TO PAY THE CREWS. The ME has it's problems, IT DOESN'T WANT TO PAY ANY MONEY TO THE CREWS. The greed of all the ME carriers has become legendary, despite inflation and currency movements, for eg: in UAE the salary has barely moved 20% up in 20 years. 20 years ago it would have made you more wealthy, now it make you less wealthy.
For ANYONE even thinking about a move to the ME, YOU WILL REGRET IT IN THE FUTURE< I CAN ASSURE YOU!! > Just look at your own area and see that you have laws, rules, justice and a fair days work for a fair days income. Here the money is not bad, but it is extremely expensive now. Compared to say 5 years ago, fuel has more than doubled and this list is endless.. If you are thinking about it, think for about a minute and then thank your lucky stars you read these forums. If you do come, I guarantee you the grass is not greener in the dessert, as you can imagine there is NO GRASS. The only OASIS of life support in the dessert is secretly kept hidden for those in the know, the locals!! YOU will regret it in the long term, your WIFE will, also will your KIDS ever forgive you. The choice or decision is like sitting on an ejector seat in a crashing fighter airplane. If there is any doubt, there is no doubt. But would you have got into the machine if you new the machine is faulty and might fail at any time, poorly maintained? Thats the ME airlines for you!! Stay on your seniority list and keep your family values, here you might loose both!! |
Hmmm, I take it you are just slightly disappointed then, critical winge?:}
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Well said critical wing. I don`t think you are slightly disappointed, you`re mad till your twinkle toes! I read you loud & clear. I`m out of that sandpit. Packed & took a hike the minute they started to cut down on allowances & benefits. While inflation was on it`s uptrend path, the idiots started to cut even the housing allowance. You are lucky to get a 20% movement on salary. We in Q8 got nothing. Well that was it for me, had enough b/s from the desert baboons!
That`s good advise from you critical wing. |
Well said critical
I know exactly what you mean and all the others that read here and know it's true. I had had it with the sandpit :yuk: Looking for a way out.
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Couldn't have put it any better myself. :D
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One month chilled out, best place on earth. That was a holiday and that was quality of life. But then...
I was most surprized, actually dissappointed with myself I must admit; by the way my attitude just snapped back to angry desert mode as I felt main wheels contact. It was like a subconscious flick of a switch. And then; "Hey bro, what's wrong with Dad. Why is he clenching fists and yelling at those stupid people." At least my kids can ID stupid people easily now. This is what several years of crap lifestyle in a nowhere third world village of incompetence will do to your sanity and your family. Time to leave, you bet. Actually considering demotion with big pay cut just to get out right now. Good luck to you too Critical |
We all came to the Desert for our own good reasons, the majority, myself included because our previous employer "went under". My advise would be to do one contract (max three years) regroup your finances, without collecting any desert bagage and get back into your'e own home market. This may be easier said than done but you will be way ahead in the long run and won't spent so much time whinging about your lot on pprune.:)
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Boo Hoo Hoo:{
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comes down to this......ME currencies at a 25 year low to the rest of the world.
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So after his recent and ignominious butt kicking Crinklstein (are you sure you're not Brian?) carefully dips his toe in the waters of PPRuNe posting with:
Boo Hoo Hoo:{ Not quite as worthless as his recent contributions, but pretty close. The mood at EK sits somewhere between trying to make the best of where one finds oneself with regard to the limits, limitations and shifting goalposts of life at EK and Dubai, and actively trying to get out. Despite what deluded individuals such as Crinklstein would have us believe. |
Till the last day
And the day you decide to leave the hot sand, count all your money, i bargain with you you will have a bad surprise...don't forget you have to pass the immigration the same day, you dont have any bank account anymore, you had to give all your IDs back and so on...Met friends last week who had the same experience, strange no ?? So guys a tip to you: start trusting when the a/c doors re closing, not one minute before. And believe me, there is another life after ME, for sure!!!
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Bye bye guyes where ever you may go. If you are not happy then leave. That best for all. I pity those who stay and bitch constantly. Make a decision and stick to it, and dont behave like a 22 year old cabin crew.
Good luck to you |
to bring this thread to the top.................
moved to the sandpit and i agree not the best move. i had like to think what i read on PPRUNE was not true BUT IT IS BE AWARE OF THE LIES LOOK AT THE PPRUNE HISTORY FOR THE TRUTH |
As usual in threads of this kind, there is an element in some posts of FIFO - "fit in or ***k off!"
The thing is, it's perfectly normal in western countries to have a whinge at the government/schools/traffic/etc and usually no one says "if you don't like it, you know the way to the airport." Granted, the sandpit is not western but most of the expats in aviation are. It's only fair for those considering a move to this part of the world to get a fair view of what life here is like ahead of time. You won't get it from a Middle East employer and you won't get it from a week's holiday. I say bring on the whinges but keep them balanced. We could be doing someone a BIG favour by reporting the facts. I'm leaving the sandpit soon, not because of SALIK or heat or declining living standards but because someone special isn't here! Now that I am leaving though, I can see through the gloss. So, let's have a warts and all, truthful look at life here.... The Good: Cheap(ish) cars and gas/petrol Cheap domestic help Cheap eating available Lovely winter weather Sports opportunities, off road driving, watersports, etc Great mix of expats, often fun to work with A great opportunity to understand different cultures, particularly the local one Low crime rate Learning UAE English; "what is your good name sir?", "do you have a dirham?" The Bad: It's never going to be home Expensive education, not usually covered in full by allowances Major inflation, particularly in housing costs Pay rises do not happen every year Many of the items you're told are cheap here are actually more expensive than in the west A greater likelihood of dying on the roads here than back home Stressful commutes (except for Emirates crew in their chauffeur-driven cars!) If certain nationalites hit you with their cars, it's your fault Stealth taxes Poor air quality Absolutely nothing to do in the summer except drink Ramadan for non-Muslims Paying Dhs20 for a 99p/$2 price-marked food item Expensive food and beer in hotels Lots and lots of customer service, and all of it cr*p Mindless bureaucracy and needing a letter of no objection from your employer to take a leak Okay, so one or two points may be exagerated, but you get the point. Dive on in and add to the list people! :ok: |
Lock n'Load
Perfect overview:ok::ok::ok: The next step when you'll come back will be to explain to your family and friends that NO, you did not earn millions a month and YES there is something different than palaces and marinas in the hot sand. Good luck for the future!! |
From my knowledge of the gulf, that sounds pretty accurate L&L.
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You guys in DXB have it bad eh? Pussies....
The mud further up the gulf is much deeper and smells far worse. "Oh please sir dont sack me, I dont want to apply for work at EK or EY, Oh please no sir no, please dont send me there...." For me, whether it's shorts or long pants to keep clean, the smell has me beat and I'm off. |
Pretty accurate, except...
Stressful commutes (except for Emirates crew in their chauffeur-driven cars!) |
I do agree with you. I sometimes wonder if I would be better off driving myself to work if it came to a big accident. I have no doubt I would fair better if I was driving in a large SUV and being a defensive driver, but I weigh the risks of that against the minor fender benders with the resultant hardships of that, as compared to the risk of being killed in an audi.
It does concern me and I will speak up at any and all times that I think the driver is being less than cautious. I do it in a nice way and I have never had a driver not respond to my concerns in a proper manner, at least considering what he was doing prior to my intervention. I always keep in mind that these poor bastards are not properly trained, and are overworked but the bottom line is that its my health or perhaps even my life in their hands. I encourage all of us to politely make it known that if a driver's performance is not indicative of a safe driver, to be understanding yet forcefully voice our concerns. I have been hit by idiots when I was going to work and each time it was not my drivers fault, yet leading up to each incident if I was the driver I would have backed off much earlier and likely, or at least hopefully avoided the accident. |
Stayed and worked in KSA for many years.
Much happier getting out of there. Exactly what was accomplished there is still to be seen. Yes things are cheap, the salaries are normal, tsx free, when and if paid on time. But after while you have to face reality, this is not your culture, you cannot change anything and after you realize this , hoping you are not on high blood pressure medication you will decide. Many jobs now in the USA and Europe. I just got really tired of the Arabs telling me that 911 was all a lie, trying to convert me to a religion that I could care less about along with all the hypocrites there. Many have said 2 buckets, one for money, one for shiX. you leave when the first one fills. Not like it was back in the early 90"s. |
HYPOCRITES......you couldnīt have found a better word...!:ok:
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cut salary, increase profit...(whats wrong with this logic)
This seems to be the mantra of the ME aviation experts.
It is certainly the mantra of Dr Potty. Has anyone explained to him and his head shaker managers, that the best way to get productivity from professionals , or all employees) is to reward them for good performance. I always believed the carrot was better than the stick, as a motivational tool. The threat of dismissal loses its edge, after a quick review of the vast number of pilot jobs available. ssa |
Lock n Load: Excellent post
Sums it all up. But lets not forget that we as pilots are still doing very good compared to these poor mistreated souls that work now in slavelike condition in 50 degree heat. :yuk:
And yes to all of you out there reading these posts, most written on pprune is unfortunatley true :eek: |
So true. And now days, it's the brown bucket which seems to be getting most of the action.
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it's the brown bucket which seems to be getting most of the action My worry is that when we finally get time to pause and take a breath, the bucket will explode in our face's :eek: |
I just got really tired of the Arabs telling me that 911 was all a lie, trying to convert me to a religion that I could care less about along with all the hypocrites there. Hmmm:hmm: I suppoose in ur dictionary this is not hypocricy but just being polite. |
There was a time when talking about 9/11 to an arab meant admiring his new porsche. :ok:
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My former local supervisor, in all other respects a fine and peace-loving man whom I'd welcome to my home overseas (except I wouldn't have enough room for him, his wife, his kids and the maid) and with whom breaktime chats were usually interesting, was a 9/11 unbeliever. Or rather, he thought the US government was behind it.
When the subject came up, I certainly didn't just smile and agree with him! I pointed out that the US government couldn't have got away with it due to the fact that in a democracy (even in the current atmosphere of "security" before freedom) it would have been impossible to get so many people to keep quiet from so many different agencies, and no one in the US would likely volunteer to die just to set up a pretext for future government actions. I doubt I changed his mind, and he certainly didn't change mine! Still, I think some expats do treat the locals more gently than is really required. I reckon many of them love a good arguement... :E |
Keep telling other people "my religion is better than your's" and then expect respect in return.... nice :D.
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Religious superiority
That's part of the problem, praying 5 times a day, but I bet they know every brothel on every layover. Not realiizing however that the expats build everything they have and see, including their Landrovers and Rolex watches. Pathetic.
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arms2serve - who are you aiming your post at? Only two posts in this thread mention Islam;
1. Mine saying that Ramadan is tough for a non-Muslim; and 2. Earl mentioning that some Saudis tried to convert him. There are no mentions at all of any other religion, and none suggesting the primacy of any religion over any other! Or are you pointing at the Saudis? FWIW, if you do happen to have a strong religious faith, whatever that faith may be, of course you believe your faith/religion has more validity than any other. I am not a Muslim, but I would doubt the faith of any Muslim who didn't believe that their view of God was the correct one! No one says I have to agree with them... Many would argue that it is their duty to spread the word of God - it's certainly an article of faith within most Christian denominations. The big difference between the west and the middle east is that here in the Gulf it is illegal to attempt to convert anyone to a faith other than Islam. In the west, any faith and many cults are free to spread their message. So, there you have it. One benefit of life in the UAE - no Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons ringing the doorbell at 10am when you've been working all night!!! :ok: |
yep..as Flyingcrok mentions...in this part of the world without expats, the only option for the locals would be to go back into the desert in their tent!!
I hope one day they will realise that and show a little bit more respect and consideration for us .... |
I hope one day they will realise that and show a little bit more respect and consideration for us... I don't think that's going to happen. The money issue will always play a mega role. We are giving you a job otherwise you would be a jobless in your own country... bla... bla... If you don't like it, just go back. We all see a lot of it elsewhere, but considering these guys GDP (UAE) per capita they should give the example and extinguish such exploitation. Check this out http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5444.htm. I hope, I'm not labelled biased here because of the source of the information. Well, what goes around comes around...:oh: |
Lock n' Load - I'm aiming my post at the people who commit every sin this world has to offer then act as though they just came down from the heavens, clean and pure.
Just take a look at my location and consider what it's like being a minority over here :ugh:. The Arabs complain talk about discrimination after 9/11, I bet it's not half of what's over here and I was born here and still living here waiting for a chance to go to a country where I can see first hand what it's like not to have that extremist threat looming over my head. I look, walk, eat, sleep like any national of this country, but the moment I have to declare I'm a Christian, suddenly I'm someone who just came from Mars :ouch:. |
arms2serve, thanks for answering! Given your age and location, you could very easily have been a Muslim. As I hope you can tell, I have no problem at all with Muslims who love peace and who allow others the freedom to believe and practice as they wish. The UAE is relatively liberal in that respect towards Christians.
Anyway, going back to the main point of the thread, I just realised another item to go in the "bad points" column.... Wading through a lake of sh*t-imbued water in public toilets, trying desperately to keep your trousers off the floor and wondering how many paper toilet seat covers you need to keep your bum dry!!! |
Yes UAE is quite liberal, I went to Dubai last year and stayed there for 6 days and believe me those 6 days were the most carefree days I could think of since school, without exageration.
Heck I could let my mother and sister go out without having to escort them. Over here in Pakistan, eveteasing is a 'normal' harrassment many women have to face everyday under very noses of the law enforcement in the so-called most successful city i.e. Lahore :mad:. Dubai is heaven compared to Pakistan, it all comes down to what sort of lifestyle you will have to give up to come to Dubai. A guy like me will be more than happy to live there. |
I see where you are coming from
arms2 when this is your definition regarding liberal. Maybe you should visit the western world to see what liberal means.
Besides, there are consistent complaints of young FA's being stalked and pesterd by locals and labourers in Dubai. |
Sadly i think 4HP will have to step in again as this thread is getting way off topic and very racist. Once again we scrape the bottom. Lets not let a good forum become a place to air our personel grieviances of things it was not designed for.
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I too have to laugh at the notion of Dubai being called "liberal"
The statment is true in the sense of visiting and living the lifestyle seen on the TV programs. That can be obtained at a monetary cost. Just leave the thin veneer of luxury of the tourist areas or even the areas that the western expats fear to tread and then see if you will still call it "liberal". |
Liberal it may appear, but that easy going liberal shine, can disappear at the drop of a hat or the crunch of a land cruiser rear ending you, and all of a sudden you are left with the rude reality that you have no rights here.
A liberal country would allow me to eat and drink at will at any time of the day, regardless of religious festivals. Countries like Malaysia and Indonesia do not place such restrictions on their residents, and yet this country which so desperately wants to be accepted by the rest of the world as a first world country, seems to forget that real countries do not ban residents or tourists from eating and drinking at will. Liberal.....I think not. And before I get reminded that I am a guest and to do as I'm asked, sorry...told!!! I no longer deem myself as a guest. As an investor and homeowner of so called freehold property, I am long past guest status. |
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