Upgrades delayed again at EK
 

Distressed to hear this morning that 3+ year Airbus FOs ROSTERED to start their upgrade training this month have just been told they will be delayed for JUNIOR FOs to commence transition upgrades on 777! [Transition upgrades were stopped about 3 years ago but now due to "company requirements" they appear to be re-introduced (dont have a problem with transition upgrades at all; just the continual flip-flop by the company which inevitably disadvantages those who seniority means something to (obviously not Brian))].
Apparently these Junior FOs are eligible for accelerated command... the problem is the disadvantaged FOs have served MORE THAN 3 years; the time for mere mortals to be upgraded with no, or insufficient Command experience.
The reason given is that the company cannot afford to lose the MFF qualified FOs to upgrade or transition courses.
This does not affect me but I will always respect seniority (perhaps I am in a minority here in EK) and it REALLY F#@$S ME OFF!
More info please if anyone has it; numbers affected?
Beware new/potential FOs to EK!!!

Is there not a policy that there will be no accelerated commands when there are 3 year FOs waiting? We all know EK does what it sees fit, the pilot group be damm but where is the justification? Just to show everyone how screwed up their system is at least 75% of the pilots making the upgrade transition are MFF qualified. They won't upgrade the 3 1/2 yr pilots but they will upgrade the 2 1/2 year and less pilots?
The rumour mill says that 18 Airbus FOs had their class cancelled and they won't be running again until Sept. That is going to put a huge backlog in the system for a majority of the EK pilots just to satisfy 30 or so "special" pilots. It is time to bring an end to this gross injustice.

"Not before September" - fact not rumour!

:ugh:

Please tell me this isnt true..........****ers,must be great being an Ek manager ,screw up after screw up....and still they collect the bonus..must be why Brian wants to be one.........................................

Because the proverbial wheels have fallen off the recruitment wagon, you know, a few DEC's coming, few F/O's. They are amending the "policy" not changing it, oh no that would be to admit they screwed it up in the first place. Thats AAR for you!

Now, they changed the DEC requirements for new entries, so voila, loads of guys already here with the required experience on the Bus and 777. Its totally wrong that these guys have been delayed on their Bus upgrades, why can't they do a transition to the 777???!!! No rhyme or reason is there. Still, better that we have internal placement of guys across to the 777 LHS than external, not that any want to come anyhow!

Total crap mismanagement IMO.

EGGW :{

EGGW

" Still, better we have internal placement of guys........."

Mmmm, easy to say when YOU'RE one of the 30 or so 'special' guys to benefit from this new amendment to the policy. Save the misplaced concern for your fellow workers and have the balls to tell the SVP what you really think. Perhaps you could offer your place to one of the 3 year boys. What d'ya reckon,mate?

Harry

EGGW
Why do you say the wheels have fallen off the recruitment programme ?

is there a difference between an internal guy jumping the queue and a dec.eggw you are treding on "murray ground"................

Bottom line the company will do what it wants to stop the aircraft being parked, or reduce the amount about to be parked.

I think its absolutely wrong that anyone should queue jump, but what to do, get more external DEC's? I've written to TCAS many times on the subject, have you HARRY? Why guys who are capable of Bus commands, but somehow incapable of transitioning to the 777, beggars belief. Quite insulting for those guys.

I was referring to the DEC recruitment, not specific enough, sorry TOPC.

EGGW :ugh:

the delayed guys should have been given the option of going on the 777.many of those guys didnt apply because of the 6 month fo part.now it seems the 6 month part doesnt exist.whats the point of having an fom if it is full of crap.or is it only there for the company to use when they feel just.

i wouldnt expect eggw or other fo to turn down a upgrade.But i do think it is a bit rich that the guys complaining about the wrongs of dec seem to think that another **** management decision is a better option. the upgrade process should be clear and just and policy should be there for everyone to see.

maybe one of the wanabees at interview should ask the recruiters what the policy for upgrades is???????

EGGW,

Sorting our manning out is simple. Pay! If they can make EK attractive rather than just competitive, then they would have to beat the applicants off with a sh*tty stick.

It seems to me that the company does not fully understand safety risk management judging by some of the decisions that are made. It is ok to employ a 737-200 Ryan Air Captain straight onto the 777 but not cross-train our own F/Os. Let me see the 732 guy needs to learn all about glass aircraft, 777s, long haul ops and the emirates route network. The bus F/O needs just needs to transition to the 777 particularly if he has had a jet command before.

I believe that most of the risk in our operation comes from a lack of awareness of the operational environment rather than the aircraft. It took me a couple of years before I was comfortable enough around the network to fully understand the implications of diverting to a particular airfield et al. It even took me nearly a year to learn to speak english well enough to understand most of the ATCers in the region and I am a native English speaker! Get a new DEC and an inexperienced cadet together and the risks are magnified.

What about the FOM??
 

In recent times, EK has proven that their word isn't really carved in stone. Actually, they have changed our T&C's whenever they wanted to (in a cost neutral way). The process is quite easy actually, you just keep to whatever is in the contract, but for everything else, EK just issues this little paper called FCI and says 'Hey guys, now your working under these conditions. Take it or leave it..' So at least, they had to guts to tell us to bend over and take it as a man..
More recently, one of the most important issues for our F/O group, the upgrade policy, has been changed:
First, we hear from a recruitment website that DEC's now only require 8000hrs. Confirmation came through the requirements on EK career website.
Now, F/O's who are eligible with 3 years are being bypassed by Accelerated guys without the criteria.
Both these issues are against the upgrade policy as printed in the FOM (Operations Manual Part A, Chapter 5 pp3-4). EK didn't even issue an FCI, or any other communication towards the pilot community to announce or explain these decisions.
Actually, since nothing of this is in writing, EK is breaking it's own law.
Of course, as I stated before, EK's word isn't carved in stone, but now, there isn't even a word...
What me worries the most is that we are actually evolving towards an ad hoc command policy. Next thing you know, Pablo, the (imaginary) Bolivian F/O with 3000 hours on Turboprop in the Andes, who has been here for 6 months, bypasses everyone because they could use him for his route knowledge for the new South American routes we will fly. And for our Asian routes, passengers like to have a Lee in the flightdeck, while Roger seems to be popular on English routes and Jurgen is a German option. So guys, you are lucky, bypasses are available... All the requirements are just there to fill a meaningless chapter...
And the downward spiral continues...
As far as I understand, the guys who have been delayed can't be missed on the Airbus sector because they are CCQ. We on the 340 are flying our @sses off, putting in 100hrs each month and most of us have some kind of a spreadsheet running to keep track of our monthly and yearly limits (yes, we all approach 900hrs..). So not only are we the workhorses of the pilotgroup (no offence to the other guys, I know you work hard as well), to thank us for our hard work they just delay our upgrades! I wonder how EK will find any more volunteers to go on the 340 now? You must be completely crazy to join our group of zombies, no reward at all.
Ok, there is a little reward: we do each month get overtime paid, unless you have some leave where they will fly you 78 hours in two weeks under the new cost neutral system.. and the good part is, we don't have time to spend our extra money. Now I think of it, I must be sitting on a golden egg... ;)
I just can't believe the lack of communication from AAR, TCAS or Ed.. It's just pathetic and it shows a complete lack of respect for the pilot community.
MR8

A bit off topic, nonetheless connected, rumour goes this year`s resignations up to 45....

Aircraft deliveries coming faster than the moving sands, not enough drivers, guys being stuffed over for command.

GUYS, DON'T FLY ON YOUR DAYS OFF, THINK OF YOUR COLLEAGUES, YOUR ACTIONS CAN EFFECT YOUR FUTURE - THINK ABOUT IT!

FOM Chapter 3
 

Guys

According to the FOM the screwed F/O's have the right to appeal within 30 days, if not I think I will be tearing these offending pages out of the FOM as it seems they are only to be used to wipe my :mad: :mad: with!!!!

Thank you for another kick in the nuts Adel.:{

What's next - will they make us permanent FOs to save money?
 

I must say I am very surprised by the lack of comments to this outrageous policy change. I am guessing that this means bypassed/delayed/shafted FOs are busy on the keyboard writing our esteemed managers. Remember guys, even though you may not be one of the senior AB FOs that got pulled off an upgrade course, this new, but still not official change will mean that you are here for atleast 4 years before you upgrade!

ekpilot.. How can one officially react one something that is actually just a rumour. Don't get me wrong, I know these things are actually happening, but since there is no oficial policy, you can only react the moment some guys will actually start their upgrade course ahead of you.

MR8

MR8

Believe me what is happening is true. I've checked staff numbers and rosters on the portal. Those on an upgrade course this month are way behind me on seniority, despite my jumping through the EK command selection hoops.

What has been going on is fact. However, there is a rumour that three of the intended transition & upgrade F/O's have failed their tech exam. Anyone else care to comment..................

It's HAPPENING MR8...................... And yes EKpilot, we're busy on the keyboards..

Jolly and White,

Obviously you guys had your courses cancelled. Could you share with us who, how and with which reason EK called you to give you this news? Off course I understand if you guys can't do this if that would mean you could loose your anonimity on this forum. (Don't ask Capt America though, he's rather lousy at that :E )

I understand you guys are being punished because you fly the A340, and we are obviously short of A340 F/O's, even more than other pilot groups are short.

AB Captains are flying like hell as wel, and EK is aware of that, that's why they planned your course in the first place. Now with cancelling, how will they manage the AB Captains for the summer? Will these guys go even more into overtime, or are they planning to replace you by DEC's Airbus? And that's even before the upcoming resignations due to our great payrise..NOT!!

I would also like to be the first one to speculate about NEXT years bonus: nada! The way the company is going now, we will never be able to keep those new aircraft flying, we almost can't handle the way things are going now. How on earth are they expecting to make even more profit when you can be SURE that aircraft will be parked? Did anyone inthe higher regions of management look at the long time losses? What the long time effect will be of flight cancellations, passengers being stuck because EK can't provide them with flights they booked?

On the bright side, with the delays you guys are facing, you might have the pleasure of doing some training with Capt America, who will have finished his TRI course by then.. He will without doubt tell you how great EK is, and you guys will probably completely forget all about the ****ty summer you guys are facing. Life will be beautifull... :yuk:

To end with, for what it's worth, please know that our thoughts are with you guys. You guys are taking a direct hit, but I'm sure most of the AB F/O's are with you, also suffering from the ripple effect...

There's no certainties anymore, the lies continue...

MR8