nah... not worth the bad karma. Besides he might recognise himself and feel hurt. :{

I don't have a problem with Americans and find the yank-bashing here a little off-putting. Let's switch to the kiwis, shall we? They're used to it.:ok:

I'm sure the majority of DECs are nice guys and not at all weird. Just like the majority of Accelerated Command FOs are nice guys and not
d!ckheads, despite their willingness to queue-jump.

Hi Muttley Crew,

You have a strong belief in yourself that you are funny and show wit in many of your postings – The sad thing is you’re not very funny or witty. That’s just my opinion of course.

Go ahead and Kiwi bash if you like; whatever spins your wheel! Quite unusual how some of you always have to hunt in a pack, like wolves really!

Regards,

Kiwi.

On the other hand, why stifle "intelligent" discussion?

Essentially he was an argumentative, nit-picking fcuk who was hung up on things the other guys generally wouldn't give a toss about.

FOs love being micro-managed and berated.

411A and Yanks @EK
 

411A I'm going to have to call your bluff. Fact is buddy, I know who you are, despite the fact that you wouldn't remember me.

The early Yanks who came to EK were type rated on the 727 (Al W, Bill S) or the Airbus (Bill B, OM, JB etc). Back then in the era of principled management (sort of:rolleyes: ) EK only hired DECs with experience on type.

You as a SV Tristar driver wouldn't have qualified, hence the move further East later on I guess.

The only Yank who was a pain, was BW. Who as mentioned, did a runner. Rumour was he went to FedEx on a Subic base, but never confirmed that.

I flew with some of the above mentioned as a FO. Good guys all (except BW) and I learned a lot from them. The current crop of Yank DECs I can't comment on, not having to share a flight deck with them. Never met the talking horse and don't know the Capt. America.

In his true fashion, BW was to run the Subic Operation -according to him.
My info is that he went to Kallitta.


"The only Yank who was a pain, was BW. Who as mentioned, did a runner. Rumour was he went to FedEx on a Subic base, "

Crew Resource Management
 

The common theme here would make an excellent example for a CRM course.
Everyone seems to be bitching about status,pay and Nationality issues.All these issues are not condusive with the job in hand.
When professionals start to compare with fellow co-workers they cease to become professionals.

Avation Doc,

What would make good conversation at a CRM course is the post mortem of the incident / accident that Emirates will have with the current 'head in the sand' attitude that is being exhibited by management. The holes in the swiss cheese are lining up and no one is listening. There will be so many shouting 'We Told You So!!'

And for the record, 411A has never been offered a job at Emirates. He never flew any of the required types that EK were looking for. Sorry 411A, you have been ousted as a liar, which in this part of the world is not a good thing to be called at all. But then with your extensive experience in the Middle East, you'd know that, wouldn't you?

L1011,

Era of principled management? The way things are going that could be described as just two years ago!!

Although I appreciate that the f/os are pissed off at their treatment, I'm afraid the list of things you mentioned are not all exclusive to middleeast longhaul pilots. the type of ops you do is not that big a deal and the skills are not exclusively manifest in EK f/os, previous commanders or not..Its a weak arguement. Simialr to the one that assumes all turbo prop pilots will struggle in jets, and so have to go thru a pathetic right of passage for a jet rating.protectionism wrapped up in elitism.
We have etops,rvsm (big deal to both),ULH we dont do but I'm sure its a combination of teh first three with an extra bod ( or maybe not knowing EK). I make many long haul flights in my 800, have flown in regions from the first to the fourth world and would apply my professionalism to achieve the same in a bigger aircraft.The last aircraft i flew was smaller than this one , and so it goes. The point of this rant? Dont expect sympathy or solidarity for your plight at EK if your tactic is to be so arrogant to assume that the right seat at ek is prerequisite for career advancement, and the font of all aviation skill.
Look around you on your right seat colleagues I can assure you they are not the chosen few. Three years at EK does not substitute for years of experiences, just because it wasnt at EK.

Now try and reason back rather than playing the did i fail card , because the answer is NO. In the three years since my f/o iview the comapny has changed, if they were to offer me a capts job, my decision would not be based on whether I felt adequate enough to hold my own amongst ek f/os.I know enough of them not to be intimdated by their rote knowledge of ops. As well as the experienced guys getting shafted there are many who are on thier first real airline job (ie not a third world con shop), got some knowledge and think everyone else must be inferior. Flat earth mentality. You signed the contract not the rest of the flying community.:ok:

Flame on

>>Three years at EK does not substitute for years of experiences, just because it wasnt at EK.<<

Sadly, you can't tell that to the folks in the RHS at EK, bushbolox, simply because they have fallen for the sales pitch....their beaks appear to be well above ground effect.:ugh:

L1011

I think you will find that 411A after SV did not go East as he claims to have been a B707 DEC with SQ in the Mid 70's. I guess if this is so then he left SQ to join SV on the B707 and then got rated on the Tristar at SV. This would make him at least 65 by now!! My guess after SV is that he entered the Agency world for employment. He now claims to be a Captain on Tristars with Air Universal in Jordan.What an end to an illustrious career.

Yes he certainly was not offered a B727 DEC at EK in the early days as you had to be rated and experienced on type as I also tried but not being B727 type rated they were not interested.

Millers, Strange isn't it that the man himself has totally ignored our posts :\

Actually he did move East, not to SQ but another Tristar operation where he ended his days. Met him more than once in bars around the Far East, he was a likeable old geezer. Full of shyte, but entertaining. Just likes to wind up the EK boys I reckon. Sad he tried to stretch the truth, aviation is SUCH a small world, one always gets caught out.:ooh:

Quite wide of the mark, millerscourt, and I certainly never applied for any B727 posting...far too small an aeroplane.:}

I'm quite surprised that you even considered.

Sounds like you've been rumbled 411A.... :{

Good to see you adopt the "deny, deny, deny" strategy, it always works with the missus!:ok:

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!! :) :)

This is the best result on this site ever! 411A, you are bloody liar matey!!! :} :} :} :} :}

411a In those days I was then a mere B737 Captain although I had been on the B707 320-C for 4 years but no longer current. As you are neither B727 or Airbus rated as others have said there was no way that you had ever been offered a DEC at EK in those early days.Why would you have even wanted to consider EK in those early days with a route structure just around the Gulf and Indian sub continent? Far too dull for a Tristar Captain of your calibre and experience surely??.

>>...there was no way that you had ever been offered a DEC at EK in those early days.<<
You are quite mistaken, millerscourt.
'Round about 1987 or so, EK ran a full page advert in Flight International requesting applications from 'experienced wide-body Captains' and no aircraft type was specified.
I applied, further correspondence followed, and a preliminary offer was presented.
Two others at SV that I know of applied, one accepted, one declined as did I.
Simple as that.
Look thru your old copies of Flight and you will clearly see the advert, run in two successive issues, as I recall.
EK's route structure at the time was limited, the salary was lower, and I was quite senior at SV.

Hunt him down boys... :}

Just looked back through the old copies, from Jan 1985 to Dec 1989. No such advert. :hmm:

Well in all fairness what he said is true as I remember.Plus I did have a conversation about working at EK with one of their 727 guys back in the late 80's and as I recall what 411a said is pretty close.:ugh:

You remember well, filejw, the information about EK was rather well known in the mid-east at the time, and quite a few guys had a look, as in 1986, SV decided that they were 'overmanned' in the flight crew department, so started selectively not renewing contracts.
This, combined with the GOSI program cancellation previously, resulted in quite a few SV guys looking elsewhere.
Didn't last all that long, as SV had to begin hiring about a year or two later.

I'm not totally surprised that the present EK guys would have no particular knowledge of this...they might well have been just out of short pants at the time.:}

Whether there was an advert or not in 86/87 does not alter the fact that you had to be rated on either the B727 or A300/310 to get a look in at EK as a DEC. 411A is neither. His colleague who he says took a position there was clearly A300 Rated. That is the difference. QED