The Mood At EK
 

Hey everyone,

I understand there has been some comflict at EK between managment and pilots and that some people were leaving. I was wondering if this is still so or if managment and pilots have reached some kind of solution. BTW, I doubt it but does Emirates have a union?


Safe Flying!

Lots of talk but little in the way of action. The reality is that vast majority are quite happy and we'd all like to make more money and work less, but it's not the case. No union, but I don't see that as a bad thing. All in all, good place to sit through the storm of aviation.

Fortunately after months of soul searching and people being moved out of management positions, the management has developed a solution that seems to suit everyone.

They change our conditions of service any time they like, without consulting the work force, and if we don't like it we can leave.

Seems to be working OK so far.

Saltaire says that "the vast majority are happy".

My experience is that is not the case. The recent change in the way flying hours are recorded has, yet again, raised concerns as to where this job is headed.

In theory if you fly a full month of 4 man crews, it is possible to be rostered for 150hrs. I'm not sure if that can be physically achieved, but the rule change allows for it. On 3 man crew you can be rostered for 133 hrs.

At present it is unlikely that anyone will fly a whole month of augmented flights, but when we have 30 something 777-300ER's and 50 380's, it might be a different case.

So as soon as a few guys start earning 50 hours of overtime, you can standby for the changes as to how productivity pay is calculated. (that's just me speculating)

6100
 

I know it's a serious subject and so I apologise in advance, but the way you put that had me crackin' up mate! :ok:

DEOne

You know what they say... don't take life too seriously, because you'll never get out alive.

cheers

bound_for_dubai,

Almost zero Pilots are leaving.

Much huffing and puffing by some, but that is the norm in most airlines.

I suppose you're right. Its in every airline. Good to hear that there are no major problems at EK.


Safe Flying

What Desert Knight meant to say was:

There are plenty of pissed off people due to current rostering practices, lack of pay increases, unilateral changes in conditions. But the sad reality is that this is still one of the best expat jobs going. That is not an endorsement of this job, but a reflection on how crappy the other jobs on offer are. That is one of the reasons not too many are leaving.

It is my guess that the situation isn't going to change any time soon. So I don't think you will see many guys leaving for greener pastures, because I dont think they exist.

More than one way to skin the cat...
 

If the US DOT/FAA find out about this 150/133 monthly hour business, the UAE will slip into Category Two PDQ, provided of course that a pilot actually operated these numbers.

Perhaps a word to the NY FSDO would be in order.

perhaps mr knight should limit his observations to the sim tech forum rather than expanding on the pilot's conditions at ek.

Thanks guys on the overview of the situation at EK!

Safe Flying

Think your mood re EK is based solely upon your own terms of reference.
If you come from a country where the sun does not shine much, your passport is of the right colour to allow your kids to get a school place easily, and you luck in with accomodation, you will have a great time, and wonder why others would think of complaining.
If however, you are use to seeing the sun in the sky without the clouds, and you have to wait for months/years to get the kids a place at school or your accomodation is on the airfield cargo loading area your impression may be somewhat different.
As has been said before, the airline bean counter is the ruin of this industry. Many at EK are looking elsewhere. But they will only leave if the deal is a lot better than what they are on now. Makes sense really. Think its the same in most airlines.
To come here thinking this is holy grail of airline jobs is very wrong. It is just another airline job....with all the problems that come along with this kind of work. However you have no union to protect you, and a contract written in sand.
The mood has changed dramatically in past few years.
Many of the fellas I fly with state that things are much different from what they were lead to believe from both the company, and from their mates that were already here. Quite a few are uncertain if it was the correct decision to pack up and move to the desert. Then again, some others want to stay here forever.

Well its definetly the attitude that one has. For some, its no big deal whether or not their is a union. I have worked a few (non aviation) jobs, where unions have ruined the company and it was visible by the lack of work or production made. Others have stated Emirates is not the best place to work, but for an expat its better than the majority of airlines out there.

I think whether the desert was or wasn't what you were led to believe, it could be turn out to be a great experience and adventure if you let it be. And you can move back home or elsewhere. Thats the beauty of being an expat and its what draws more and more pilots. Instead of being at home and having your company live day by day (US AIRWAYS for example), and have to be involved in all of that union dirt, you can just enjoy being somewhere else and maybe learning a new language or seeing other parts of the world that maybe your home airline doesn't fly to.

All in all, I think its the attitude of the pilot. Sometimes people fight over the luxuries they never really took advantage back home, but are used to having it all. If there is a good number of pilots that say its a great place to work, then thats good enough for me. :ok:


Happy Landings

bound_for_dubai

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

We've all heard it and seen it before. Take off your rose coloured glasses, smell the coffee and see it how it really is.

I'm sure your current job sucks. But so will this one. I just hope that after all the heartache of packing up and coming here you accept that you did it of your own free will, contrary to the advice you may have read here.

Hey ernie,

hows the hols dude.

Well I didn't say it was perfect there. Everyone has their issues. For someone like me with no dependants and young, the sky is the limit. For someone with a family and nearing retirement its a different story. Hope I didn't sound to optimistic :)

bound for dubai...you don't know this fella EK_Dantos do you? he was that brat that was sinbinned a few months ago from this forum.
You kinda sound the same.
Or do all Canadian Kids learning to fly want to join EK...hmmm.
Don

If you move to Dubai with your family, then a lot depends upon the fact if they are happy or not and this irrespective of the job satisfaction.

PPRuNe will NOT give you that information.

411 A

And that goes for Ethihad too......same CAA ....interesting game EK is playing there

Now that\'s what I like about the States........if..they implement what they claim it\'s OK

Hey Don,

There are a great number of young pilots wanting to join not only Emirates but Cathay and Singapore. I think majority want to fly for Cathay. Of course less than half ever make it anyways. The flight centre came by to do a survey last year and found out 17 out of 18 pilots want to move overseas, majority to asia.

Don't be insulted by our arrogance, I'm sure everyone was at one time the same they just don't know it. That of course changes with experience and with situations. Emirates is like gold here. The older pilots here either don't know about it, or they think its a rat hole. The younger generation sees it as the "golden opportunity" which they may be alittle misled but thats for them to figure out for themselves. But has really been advertised with their new routes and aircraft orders and to some who are used to hearing bankruptcies, layoffs and low hiring, thats a sign of hope for the industry.


Happy Flying :ok:

[Yet again the young are choosing to relearn what the old guys alread know.

That's one of the main reasons that aircraft and stockmarkets will continue to crash.

So is that to say you have any personal regrets to coming to Dubai? Is it just the company or the life there? I hear from some people that the people there are nice and then I hear horror stories of people getting their teeth smashed in by the police for speeding. I can't find any info on the net so I might as well hear it from you guys.

I've been here over 5 years and I've never heard of anyone having his(her) teeth smashed in for speeding. Far from it, driving tends to be a "free for all "experience here and nobody seems to get stopped for overspeeding.
The police are tough with drink-driving though. If they stop you for driving dangerously and you fail a breath-test, it's the slammer for you. Frankly, i agree with that 100%.
Taxis are fairly cheap so there's no excuse for not getting a cab home after a wild night.

Thanks picu for the heads up!

Bound for Dubai - come along to EK bud. I was accused of wearing the rose tinted a while ago when I first came here. Sorry to let you down "Don" and "6100" but I'm having a great time here. Command could do with coming around sooner, pay could be a lot better - BUT, I STILL DON'T REGRET THE MOVE. Sorry of some of us are enjoying Dubai. If you don't like it, why don't you p1ss off???????????????????

6100, coffee smells good, apart from the fact that I CAN'T STAND THE STUFF :yuk: :yuk:

411a. We're not yet actually doing those hours - just talking about it. If I get it paid as overtime do I really care? Yanks calling the kettle black after the AA crash in Little Rock methinks :mad:

Thanks White Knight!

Regardless of how bad people say it is, I still want to try it out for myself. That way if I don't like it I have only myself to blame and won't have any regrets of not trying because of a small group of people not satisfied with their job. You can't make everyone happy!


Safe Flying!

Agree with 6100 re EK
 

I worked as a flight attendant there 9 years ago, and just prior to that some australian pilots tried to start a union and were promptly sacked. As far as expat jobs go, yeh its one of the better ones, its really a full on party scene out there, like Las Vegas in the middle east, lots of fun. Lots of wife swapping among the "jumeirah Jane" sets......same old same old expat lifestyle be it oman, Cayman Islands great fun, very shallow, many people exceeding their time to leave as the golden hancuffs sydnrome kicks in. Hell - you can even buy your own property there now, you could be rubbing shoulders with half the english soccer team who have bought apartments on the infamous Palm Island resort......its exciting! YOu'll meet some great folk, and some who you think are friends for life and whom you'll never hear from again once you leave....all in all a great experience

Thanks guys for your input, much appreciated!

White Knight,

I see you have your usual constructive comments posted.

Bound for Dubai

All the comments on this thread are correct, because everyone has a different measuring stick.

You asked about the mood at EK, not about the lifestyle in Dubai.

White Knite et al, seem to think that because the sun always shines, then it doesn't matter that management continually lie to us and change the goal posts. Good for him. I on the other hand would rather see less sunshine and better management.

I can say with some degree of confidence that the sun will continue to shine, and white knight will continue to enjoy EK more than i will.

All that I want to make you aware of is that we dont have a contract, our conditions continually change without consultation (almost always for the worse), and the conditions you see when you get here will probably be the best they will ever be.

In 5 years time you may well be writing on Pprune advising potential new joiners of the pitfalls, along with the benefits of moving to the sandpit in search of a great job/lifestyle.

The important thing is that you wont be able to say nobody warned you.

6100 is right.

Every airline has its pro and cons.

At EK the management is in no way restrained by any ethical, moral or legal standard, they can get away with anything they are the CAA and court at the same time.

Do what you are being told, do not criticize anything or anybody even if you know it’s in the interest of the company or safety.

If you go flying make sure you wife wears a chastity belt.

And if you are on the A 340 do not believe what the instructors tell you or you may end up being an asshole.

So management just implements policies without discussing it with you guys? The way I see it as long as you guys stick together, you can get at least some things you want. Because only when you are alone or in a small group will manage go after you if you are unsatisfied. The should really have a feedback box like in some companies, maybe that way they can satisfy you guys in some ways while satisfying their pockets.

BTW, On EK's job posting it says permanent position, is that optional or is it only by contract?

CAP56, What is a chasity belt, is that like a sign that she is married or something?

BFD

Cmon, how old are you? Really...

Hehehe... Hahaha! , it just occured to me what it was... :ok: Good one!

I am afraid Cap 56 is pretty serious about this infamous belt......:\

Just for those who are yet to work it out...bound for dubai is a Canadian kid that works part time at an over unionised pilot shop, and from pass posts I think he does it for free, as he has no need of money or worldly processions...who one day...when he gets a licence etc, would like to work for EK.
In the mean time he will delve out all kinds of advice from Loss of licence insurance, to flight deck cabin crew interaction ...and as above...ways of dealing with management (in fact all of that in past few days all on this forum!).
He was grounded from this forum a few months ago, as he was being a very naughty little boy!!!
I do believe White Knight was trying to adopt the little tacker.
Don

Don

Over on the Far East bound_for dubai is spouting forth about how nice Asia is and he intends to go to Taiwan and work for Eva Air which he says is better than China Airlines.!!!

I think he is a little hilly-billy who has never been outside his hometown.:{

PS Why am I not surprised that White Knight was trying to adopt the little bleeder.

MC alias the Stalker

Sorry to tell you guys, but your wrong, I don't work at a pilot shop I work night shift at Kraft Canada Bakery. I pay for my own flying because the money I make there is pretty good and can afford to fly 3-4 times a week. My goal is to build up some time in Taipei before coming to Dubai. I am not a redneck hillbilly. I live in a city with over 3 million people. I drive 70km to school and back and then to the airport just about everyday. I go to the carribean or Europe once a year, so yes I do leave my little hicktown. What you're referring to millerscourt is just about everyone else I train with.


......... so we'll just leave it all at that :ok:

BTW, how has your summer been everyone?

bound for dubai

you will not be hired either with EVA or CAL.

Stay where you are.

Bound for Dubai

That statement says it all. You really do need to a bit more research.

Rule number one of expat airlines.

You are on your own, nobody will be there to help you when you fall