Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

3rd Wave @WY

Old 3rd Sep 2020, 15:20
  #21 (permalink)  
The Cooler King
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,682

As it should!
Farrell is offline  
Old 3rd Sep 2020, 20:07
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,527
Good luck sueing a company faced with survival, 100% of nothing is nothing . many Labour contracts being null and void,supported by governments . Desperate times call for desperate measures .
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Old 5th Sep 2020, 08:13
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Muscat
Posts: 4
Fatbus, listen my friend, I don't know if you are Omani but you are getting a few things wrong about Oman, and about Oman Air. Oman is not a banana republic where the law only applies to companies when it suits them, and other times, companies and powerful people can violate the regulations. Perhaps this was 20 or 30 years ago but not now. We are an advanced nation marching towards prosperity and we have a strong rule of Law. We don't care what other countries are doing wrong, we have never copied their lead, they can do their own thing and see where it leads. We have always been an independent nation and inshallah always will be.

This means the law in Oman applies to everyone, and at all times. This is a basic principle of law. Perhaps this is different in your country. But here in Oman we cannot apply the law in good times and ignore it in bad times. This is why changes to salaries and labor conditions had to be approved by the supreme committee. This is what His Majesty, Allah bless him, commanded. We have to treat all employees according to the contract, or according to the instructions of the committee.

Oman wants to attract international investors, what do you think investors will think if anytime local companies feel like it, they can just ignore contracts and do what they want when it suits them? Investors will run a mile and the Vision 2040 will never be realized. It takes many years to build a reputation and only a short time to damage it. That is why it is important that all companies and especially state companies follow the rule of law and the instructions of the Covid Committee, and not start cooking under the table to save a few rials.

Our reputation and honor is worth more than a few months of cost cutting in the long run, the government knows this. That is why any violators can be reported to the government and they will have to pay the price.
hamed7x7 is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2020, 11:50
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Muscat
Posts: 4
Red face

Farrell, and Boembus, I want to make some point to you as well. Mostly I agree with both of you but I want to comment on your post.

"Any contractual grief you come across should not be a surprise to you... PPRuNe has been around long enough for you to read how it works over here".

Farrell, sorry, but no. What do you mean by "over here"? Foreigners should expect to be cheated in Oman? Expat pilots who came to Oman Air expected nothing more than that their contract should be honoured. The company should be bound to its contract, regardless the conditions. If redundancies are made, yes the expats will go first, and perhaps they should not expect differently (even if that does not happen in "the old world").

But as long as people are employed the company should not bend the rules and break the law to the disadvantage of one group of people and not the other. I believe you were one of the most experienced pilots in Oman Air before you joined the Omani CAA; and I also believe that you worked in "the old world" for many years. Then you are surely aware that rules are the rules and apply to everyone, whether that concerns contracts or compliance with regulations, unless you are in some micky mouse country. I think you expected the same from your past employers when you were an employee. If we don't do things the right way in Oman, we have no right to be proud and hold our heads up. Then we should be ashamed of our people and our airline for cheating people, foreign crew, and pilots, and passengers. Do you not agree?

Boembus, why are you insulting people. Yes, many of your points are true but there is no need to defend wrong behaviour from the airline. Whatever was given to expats was nothing more than what we promised to bring them here. Then we broke that promise. Of course it was the company's right to terminate them, and they will look for a brigher future else where, but why do the terminations in such a bad way and after illegally cutting their salary? What will these people say about us? Maybe you don't care and you are in your little bubble, but the company's reputation is already terrible because of doing things the wrong way! Just search for "airline review oman air" on google and see what you will find. Do you not think we should hold ourselves to a higher standard?
hamed7x7 is offline  
Old 5th Sep 2020, 13:08
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,527
Hamad , Mate , you keeping up with the news next door ? Contracts being ripped up . Maybe you think UAE and Qatar are banana republic's .What you say about Oman holds true to the UAE as well , but theses are unprecedented ( desperate for some) times .

Last edited by fatbus; 5th Sep 2020 at 13:33.
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Old 6th Sep 2020, 07:37
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 60
Posts: 804
I have lived and worked in the Middle East quite a bit over the years, with long spells in Dubai and Oman and less in Qatar. The one thing I would say is that Oman and UAE are very different places and people and I think / believe the rule of law is far more respected in Oman then in the other countries mentioned. I speak on a personnel as well as business level in that I have never had issues in Oman unlike the other two. I spent 12 yeas out there so not just a 2 year contract so do feel I can comment with some knowledge of the people and countries.
Mr Mac is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2020, 10:38
  #27 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,527
Then they should sue , wrongful dismissal ! Good luck to them .
fatbus is offline  
Old 6th Sep 2020, 19:13
  #28 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Panama
Age: 47
Posts: 2
Originally Posted by BOEMBUS View Post
The last and final wave of furloughs has arrived.
Is it going to be the final ? There is still some expats. Most of them on the 737 fleet. Do you think they will stay?
Tapita73 is online now  
Old 10th Sep 2020, 13:23
  #29 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: worldwide
Posts: 4
Dear hamed7x7,

I took the time to read your thread and I have to thank you, why? Because this is the representation of my personal view of what an omani national is. On the other hand, UNFORTUNATELY, I have a come across personalities like my dear BOEMBUS, who has nothing but repressed feelings against expats...

Also Oman is a proud nation. This is spot on! but the lack of leadership displayed at WY through these rough times is the representation of the company's decision makers. What happened to the CEO's letters every monday? Where is the SMLO? No one to be seen on the offices to make this transition period a little smoother. What happened to the Safety's department monthly statistics ? Not gonna disclose what happened in DAR???? Everyone knows about it but we're just looking the other way!
ptyomflyier is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2020, 09:20
  #30 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: worldwide
Posts: 4
Then they should sue , wrongful dismissal ! Good luck to them
Don't worry it is happening! and I'm sure there is more coming!
It's just a little sad that this is the way you want everybody to see the company you work for.

Is it going to be the final ? There is still some expats. Most of them on the 737 fleet. Do you think they will stay?
Probably not! The rumour is that when the guys from EY/EK that just joined the company are ready, well you know the rest...
ptyomflyier is offline  
Old 11th Sep 2020, 18:14
  #31 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Muscat
Posts: 4
The problem is not the Flight Operation department in Oman Air. Flight ops people are not to fault with the situation that Oman Air created for itself. Meaning the legal mess and the loss of reputation. Their decisions could not affect any of this situation. Regarding, the terminations they have also been put in a difficult situation which they have not caused. I am sure they feel bad also for the people that were terminated.

Two problems, the first one is how the foreign pilots and cabin crew were not given their their correct salaries and then how they were terminated in a bad way. The second one, how Oman Air has treated its customers, by running a scheme to sell tickets for flights that everybody knew would not take place, and then refuse a refund until after one year. The way both of this areas were handled was illegal under Oman law and highly immoral too. But all this issues are not the fault of Flight Operation.

A fish always rots from the head down and the head of this fish has been out of the water for too long. The CEO has become invisible. Yes, no more weekly silver notes, maybe he is hiding under a rock these days, we can only guess the reasons. Or he ran out of silver... although he probably still has some big boxes of silver left over. Now the HR and finance side of the company is a ship without a captain. Some new and some old people want to get ahead, some also dislike foreign staff and think we should just be a pure Omani company. Well, maybe that is true or maybe not, but as long as a single foreigner works for Oman Air, we have to treat him correctly and with responsibility. And we have to treat our customers with Omani hospitality, not like thieves.

Of course there are good decision makers in HR and finance also but they have perhaps not thought things through all the way. I am sure they even knew what happened was wrong but were too weak to stand their ground. What are the people in the legal departmet doing? Nobody knew salaries cannot be changed by management decision? Nobody knew that we cannot steal from customers? Maybe the decision makers listened to the accountants, who know everything about accounting, but nothing about accountability. But it is all wrong. I am very ashamed personally, mostly the loss of reputation for our company and country and the wrong behaviour. I hope this has come to the attention of His Majesty. This problem can only be fixed if we treat the problem at the root by having strong moral leadership in the company. But not if we steal and hide from colleagues and customers, and hoping for business as usual.

The Prophet Muhammed, peace be upon him, said this

“Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women, the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so — for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward.” Sura Al-Ahzab 33:35

I hope some decision makers in Oman Air will remember their faith and the responsibilities to the country, company and people in their actions, so we can restore our reputation and once again be proud.
hamed7x7 is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2020, 12:16
  #32 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: worldwide
Posts: 4
I hope some decision makers in Oman Air will remember their faith and the responsibilities to the country, company and people in their actions, so we can restore our reputation and once again be proud.
Looking forward!

The problem is not the Flight Operation department in Oman Air.
I have to disagree with you, Why? Because although they do not have a final decision on the bigger things, they do have a voice that can be heard! I will not complain here about the way they do things or run the company because I was ok with this for the time I was part of it. But, in order for you guys, I mean the new Omani pilot generation, who will stay in your flag carrier, changes need to come and ASAP! I'm still waiting for some type of communication from anyone! It's so simple just to type an email, but here you can see what the Flight Ops team is made of.
ptyomflyier is offline  
Old 15th Sep 2020, 14:40
  #33 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Back in the green
Posts: 879

well said
that’s it
Ramones is online now  
Old 15th Sep 2020, 16:33
  #34 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 503
Good post Hamed. There does seem to be a universal lack of morality in the airline industry. The main players in the ME have demonstrated that with their cavalier approach to industrial relations. Zero concern or compassion for the individual. However, we in Europe are not immune. Walsh, the CEO of IAG / BA is handing himself a huge bonus while simultaneously making many employees including pilots of course, redundant. Whatever God that you believe in this does not constitute good or ethical behaviour, a moral vacuum if you will. Simultaneously and due to the ill conceived and short notice quarantine rules in the Uk, passengers who need to get home urgently to avoid quarantine are faced with fares up to 10 times the price they were the day before. Ryanair, EasyJet, BA, the usual suspects. As an aviator of some years I am desperate for the day when we can return to normality; airlines are businesses but they should tread carefully and treat people, employees and customers well because karma is a fickle mistress.

Last edited by olster; 15th Sep 2020 at 16:48.
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