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Emirates 3 crew long haul destinations this Summer

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Emirates 3 crew long haul destinations this Summer

Old 18th May 2018, 11:48
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Kopavogur
Posts: 144
Originally Posted by Calmcavok View Post
So, serious question, are there any other airlines that operate up to 15hr block time (16h25 duty), ULR flights? With 24-27hr layovers?
we operate up to 16h. return flights with 3 crew and up to 17h. FDT with 4 crew and then sonetimes have minimum rest. And it is manageable if you just sleep and relax during your layover/ base-rest . After 3 weeks, we all go home and have 3 weeks of blissfull OFF time.

Doing this constantly? No thank you. Certainly not for the money that EK seems to be paying 🙄
Icelanta is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 12:01
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: free Europe
Posts: 90
Here's the contact for EASA. They will reply with a formal acknowledgement of your complaint and it will go into their database on EK. Unfortunately they redesigned the webpage and it isn't easy to find anymore.

[email protected]

I would appreciate the original letter stating this new reality 3 days after the US-UAE deal as I have very direct access to the FAA on this matter. PM or a link will be fine.
in freedom is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 12:17
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Banging on the crew scheduling door...
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by my salami View Post


Yes, many of the US Carriers are operating with 3 man crew....

MS
Sure, just like many European operators do the same — when the flight time exceeds 8 hours. So, many of them fly 3-man crew to the US or Asia on flights that are 9hr long. I would be surprised to hear that the US Big Three operate with 3 pilots on 14hr flights.
Fix Info is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 13:09
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UAE
Posts: 231
Originally Posted by Fix Info View Post


Sure, just like many European operators do the same — when the flight time exceeds 8 hours. So, many of them fly 3-man crew to the US or Asia on flights that are 9hr long. I would be surprised to hear that the US Big Three operate with 3 pilots on 14hr flights.
They don’t ...
Jack D is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 13:35
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Top of the World
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Fuel-Off View Post
A few helpful links to get the ball rolling:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority anonymous reporting
https://www.casa.gov.au/about-us/web...safe-behaviour

Australian Transport Safety Bureau anonymous reporting
https://www.atsb.gov.au/voluntary/repcon_aviation.aspx

FAA anonymous reporting
Whistleblower Protection Program - Electronic Complaint Notification

Couldnt find the link to the Brazilian ANAC anonymous reporting (if they have one?), any Brazilian lads or ladettes care to provide?

Fuel-Off

Thankyou - this is exactly what we all need to do. Gcaa is a waste of time, will just get you in trouble. Need to write to FAA//CAA/CASA links above, about all rostering practices in combination, against a backdrop of sustained fatigue. 30 year old cadet captains flying with green cadets - Who between them will only have a small number of sectors.

Rising incidents, near catastrophes. Mass disengagement. EK521 - FlyDubai 981.... who's next?


https://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/Make-...-or-complaint/

https://www.chirp.co.uk/
Xulu is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 14:04
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
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Age: 55
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Originally Posted by my salami View Post


Yes, many of the US Carriers are operating with 3 man crew....

MS
😢

Of course many US operators have 3 men crews but only up to 12 hours flight time. Keep in mind few pilots fly over 80 hours for the month so it’s not a big deal.
We also fly 3 pilots from JFK-GLA and JFK-DUB which both trip are well under 8 hrs even Westbound.
I cant remember the FTLs ar Emirates but 14 hrs to JFK or SYD is just unsafe especially when you include the extreme fatigue EK pilots have from flying 95 hard time hours for years.
The pilots that are not stuck at Emirates really, really need to get out as quick as they can. Even before this insane move it was well advised for your health and sanity to leave but this 3 man crap is dangerous to your license and your livelihood.
Why would any pilot stay (or join) at Emirates? It is Dangerous and Unsafe!
Neptune Spear is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 14:28
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: on earth
Posts: 302
Why do people smoke and take drugs when they know that it is very bad for their health…? Same same but different...
dubaigong is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 15:07
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: AOG
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EchoKilla is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 15:50
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Danger - Deep Excavation
Posts: 319
I blame this colleague

From May 10th in another thread:

https://www.pprune.org/10143201-post124.html

"...wonder how he intends to fix it. 3 crew ULRs ?"

Nice to know staff inputs are taken seriously.
DCS99 is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 17:56
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Far, Far Away
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Originally Posted by uplock View Post
When you do one of these 3 crew flights and decide not to file an ASR/CSR/Fatigue report then your part of the problem and not the solution.
This.

Copy the links and start reporting. Send from the biz center on the layover if you are worried about EK. IpSec connected VPN, TOR browser, etc.

It won't take long and there will be pre-formatted reports that you only need to change the dates on.
pilotguy1222 is offline  
Old 18th May 2018, 18:13
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: OMDB
Posts: 142
Normal 3 man ULRs are pretty bad, but then consider the max duty limit of 22 hours for ‘irregular ‘ operations!

Two hour delay out of Dubai, maybe a medical diversion enroute, or a diversion at arrival airport, quick refuel and continue to destination, quite easily get up up to 21/22 hours duty limit!

Don't say it will never happen, it already has! 3 man BOS three years back, duty over 20 hours, captain queried the max duty for 3 crew, informed (rather rudely!) that it was 22 hours and to get on with it, or have a meeting with AAR in return to Dubai!

Needless to say, said captain has now moved on to greener pastures!
kennedy is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 00:42
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,359
And there is no fear factor in EK management!!!
fatbus is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 01:33
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: US
Age: 61
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Originally Posted by my salami View Post


Yes, many of the US Carriers are operating with 3 man crew....

MS

This is incorrect. Most US carriers go to a 4 man crew if flights are blocked 12 hours or more. As a example Delta uses a 4 man crew on JFK to TLV blocked at a few minutes over 12 on the return. FAR 117 limits actual block to about 13 hours with a 3 man crew. Over that and you need 4.

Q05) What are the flight time limitations for a flight crewmember assigned to a FDP as a member of a 3-pilot flightcrew?

A05) 13 hours as stipulated in 117.11(a)(2). Flight time will include any flight deck time as well as in-flight rest periods.


Sailvi767 is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 01:42
  #54 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
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And a 3 man EK crew can now legally do 22 hours. It is total madness.
SOPS is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 04:02
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: UAE
Posts: 26
Who’s this Sean M character in the onemileatatime article?

Has anybody taken him to task on the non standard crew rest
that EK has.?
EK simply has a bodgie crew rest area for both fleets. Boeing originally had a crew rest that was seperate from the cabin crew, in the front of the aircraft. The crew bunk in the back is subject to noise from economy passengers, babies crying/screaming etc, from below.
It is very disappointing that both Boeing and Airbus caved into Middle Eastern buying power and provided sub standard crew rest facilities.
Added to this is the deteriorating standard of hotels provided at the destinations.
Too many holes are lining up!
I Claudius is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 05:25
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Doha
Posts: 212
Originally Posted by I Claudius View Post
Who’s this Sean M character in the onemileatatime article?

Has anybody taken him to task on the non standard crew rest
that EK has.?
EK simply has a bodgie crew rest area for both fleets. Boeing originally had a crew rest that was seperate from the cabin crew, in the front of the aircraft. The crew bunk in the back is subject to noise from economy passengers, babies crying/screaming etc, from below.
It is very disappointing that both Boeing and Airbus caved into Middle Eastern buying power and provided sub standard crew rest facilities.
Added to this is the deteriorating standard of hotels provided at the destinations.
Too many holes are lining up!
We at QR have the OFCR (777) & FCRC (350/380) located at the front. The 380 bunk is actually 2 completely separate bunks for the FD crew. One of your colleagues once told me that EK wanted high ceilings for F class cabin...

OW
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Old 19th May 2018, 06:09
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,873
DCS I think you will find that your colleague also alluded to this when predicting the reduction in cabin crew members at an earlier date. This has been a done deal for a long time. They have just thought to mention it now as bidding for July starts soon .
BBJ is just the voice that announces his masters wishes. He has no power to make any decisions . Just like that other ex brit low cost gent he replaced .
More cabin crew reductions on the way. Less leave for all. More work for the same money. Bet you they start offering a ex Air Berlin type service soon. Maybe offer a Y class class product where you have to buy blankets, water food etc .
Anytime you think they must be done, they announce something else .These muppets are good .
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 06:56
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 88
You cannot do 22hrs duty with 3 crew, Simple. Normal fdp’s apply. These affected flights are not ULR. They are LRV. So credit taken for bunk time to extend normal fdp. Happy to be corrected if I have missed something here. Nevertheless it is still madness. Please all write to your management, and voice your concerns. EK only works on statistics. No reports or concerns, no change......
Fugazi is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 07:15
  #59 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 951
Fugazi, that is easily fixed with an FCI saying you only need 3 crew for a ULR, rubberstamped by the GCAA. Problem solved.
BigGeordie is offline  
Old 19th May 2018, 07:19
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: OMDB
Posts: 142
Have read the new rules for LRVs, I stand corrected, the max duty is 18hrs!

Unless, in exceptional circumstances, however it can be extended with management approval, nothing about crew approval required.

What constitutes exceptional circumstances? Diversion? Delayed ex DXB for fog/sand?

Normal FTL limits don’t apply!
kennedy is offline  

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