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Negotiating Salary for EK New Joiners

Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Negotiating Salary for EK New Joiners

Old 3rd Feb 2019, 06:06
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Shower house of Africa
Posts: 275
If your housing and kids schooling is covered by the company then surely you can save a hell of a lot of money monthly ?
Ghost_Rider737 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2019, 11:36
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
Posts: 2,865
FK you are right. Was answering the post above mine to explain the level 1 basic pay has not reduced by 5k as was asked, it's just that the website shows the add ons .

Ghost rider come on over and show the boys how it's done .
donpizmeov is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2019, 12:27
  #23 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,888
As an ex EK person can add this. When you go to EK you are moving to the Middle East. As much as they want to polish it.. Dubai is Third World country, covered in glitz. Scratch the surface and you are dealing with a system that is steeped in the Dark Ages.

To move there as an Expat.. you should be rewarded appropriately,

In the old days of Emirates you where.

However, with no pay increases for years, and people working harder and harder, there is no way you are being Ď rewarded Ď anymore to be an expat and move to Dubai

To say that the 30 step gives pays you $ 300000 thousand is a true fact.

However.. if you stay long enough to get to the last step, how long will you live after you stop flying ?

Back when our rosters where based on 78 hours a month and we had a proper contract.. I would say,, Go for it!

Now.. I think anyone joining EK needs to think about it. I never flew the 380, so perhaps the rosters are better. But talking to my friends still there, on the 777, it does not matter how much you earn.. it will ( IMHO) induce an early death
SOPS is online now  
Old 3rd Feb 2019, 13:21
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Dream-bi Habi-land
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post
As an ex EK person can add this. When you go to EK you are moving to the Middle East. As much as they want to polish it.. Dubai is Third World country, covered in glitz. Scratch the surface and you are dealing with a system that is steeped in the Dark Ages.

To move there as an Expat.. you should be rewarded appropriately,

In the old days of Emirates you where.

However, with no pay increases for years, and people working harder and harder, there is no way you are being Ď rewarded Ď anymore to be an expat and move to Dubai

To say that the 30 step gives pays you $ 300000 thousand is a true fact.

However.. if you stay long enough to get to the last step, how long will you live after you stop flying ?

Back when our rosters where based on 78 hours a month and we had a proper contract.. I would say,, Go for it!

Now.. I think anyone joining EK needs to think about it. I never flew the 380, so perhaps the rosters are better. But talking to my friends still there, on the 777, it does not matter how much you earn.. it will ( IMHO) induce an early death
Unfortunately, still better than shi*** countries in S. A, Asia, Africa and other pits in the world,even for FO's coming from the other side of the Persian Gulf ; slaves in EK, but overall, they claim that it's better than the "jail"
Python27 is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2019, 22:37
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 572
Two points worth bearing in mind are as follows:

Firstly, unless you wish to buy property in Dubai, then you now have absolutely no control over where you end up living. If you have kids then it is highly likely you will be living in a villa in Meydan but the options are a bit more varied if you are only entitled to an apartment. In the past you could opt for company provided accommodation and have the comfort of still having the allowance available, should you wish to find something else more to your liking. This option does no longer exist. I know someone who withdrew their application after this change was announced, as he was uncomfortable with the lack of control over a decision that was fundamental to his happiness in the UAE. Food for thought!

The second point is that the days of exponential rates of expansion are over and time to command could become a lot longer than what we see now and this has and still is a fluid situation at EK. That may not be of much significance to some but one factor that helped to persuade a number to come here (including myself) was the quick command, which in turn would open up more doors as a widebody DEC after a relatively quick period. Given the overall upheaval and sacrifices that are made when moving to the UAE, ask yourself if you feel it would be time well spent to join EK and then leave without getting your command? One could face the prospect of joining yet another airline as an F/O at the bottom of the pack, whilst your time at EK could have been spent climbing the seniority list at your next airline. If you end up joining here and wish to put the years in and wait then that is fine but it could be a different story if you end up envisaging a shorter tenure at EK, compared to what you may have initially planned for prior to joining.
Emma Royds is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 11:40
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 4
Dear EK pilots
just a quick question to a charitable soul who would kindly spare an advice or two based on their own experience at EK. Can an FO on 777 hope to receive clear in his account around 40 000 AED excl Housing (or 54000AED including Housing allowance) on a typical month? That is as a new joiner...
you donít have to share the actual number if you prefer to remain confidential, just answer by telling me wether the actual monthly figure is above or below that 40 000 AED benchmark. I understand there is a more complex calculation involved if you want a comprehensive idea of the package but I am hoping for a cash flow continuation... Thanks for opening so candidly, in advance, to that kind person.
Another question is about housing: as an FO new joiner on 777, if I have 2 kids and married, am I absolutely assured to get a villa or is there a chance they give us a flat instead? If yes, how long is the waiting list to get an actual villa ?
thanks a million gentlemen
fly safe
Reunion974 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 13:04
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: guess where
Posts: 374
Reunion, Cannot comment on your first question. But on the second one... Yes, you will get a villa being married with kids.
what_goes_up is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:14
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: six micro tesla zone
Age: 28
Posts: 383
Reunion, according to the emirates recruitment pages, it is circa 31k AED basic + flying pay. I donít know what makes you think itís 40k unless you count education/housing allowances or are entering on their enhanced package?
MaverickPrime is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2019, 15:20
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: About
Posts: 196
Maverick just a small correction the figure on the EK website includes flying pay so its circa 31k a month plus housing (company provided)
Rhodes13 is offline  
Old 13th Feb 2019, 18:50
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sandpit
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Reunion974 View Post
Dear EK pilots
just a quick question to a charitable soul who would kindly spare an advice or two based on their own experience at EK. Can an FO on 777 hope to receive clear in his account around 40 000 AED excl Housing (or 54000AED including Housing allowance) on a typical month? That is as a new joiner...
you don’t have to share the actual number if you prefer to remain confidential, just answer by telling me wether the actual monthly figure is above or below that 40 000 AED benchmark. I understand there is a more complex calculation involved if you want a comprehensive idea of the package but I am hoping for a cash flow continuation... Thanks for opening so candidly, in advance, to that kind person.
Another question is about housing: as an FO new joiner on 777, if I have 2 kids and married, am I absolutely assured to get a villa or is there a chance they give us a flat instead? If yes, how long is the waiting list to get an actual villa ?
thanks a million gentlemen
fly safe


This is take home INCLUDING flight pay. It goes on to quote 44395 AED including housing allowance, however you ONLY get that if you BUY your own place, no chance of renting and getting the extra allowance now.
felixthecat is offline  
Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:52
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 947
Don't forget the deductions from the above figures for family medical insurance and provident fund contributions.
BigGeordie is offline  
Old 17th Feb 2019, 21:40
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Campinas, BR
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by Emma Royds View Post
Two points worth bearing in mind are as follows:

Firstly, unless you wish to buy property in Dubai, then you now have absolutely no control over where you end up living. If you have kids then it is highly likely you will be living in a villa in Meydan but the options are a bit more varied if you are only entitled to an apartment. In the past you could opt for company provided accommodation and have the comfort of still having the allowance available, should you wish to find something else more to your liking. This option does no longer exist. I know someone who withdrew their application after this change was announced, as he was uncomfortable with the lack of control over a decision that was fundamental to his happiness in the UAE. Food for thought!

The second point is that the days of exponential rates of expansion are over and time to command could become a lot longer than what we see now and this has and still is a fluid situation at EK. That may not be of much significance to some but one factor that helped to persuade a number to come here (including myself) was the quick command, which in turn would open up more doors as a widebody DEC after a relatively quick period. Given the overall upheaval and sacrifices that are made when moving to the UAE, ask yourself if you feel it would be time well spent to join EK and then leave without getting your command? One could face the prospect of joining yet another airline as an F/O at the bottom of the pack, whilst your time at EK could have been spent climbing the seniority list at your next airline. If you end up joining here and wish to put the years in and wait then that is fine but it could be a different story if you end up envisaging a shorter tenure at EK, compared to what you may have initially planned for prior to joining.
Is it really like that? Do you believe that the upgrade time is significantly increasing in the next few years?
I always thought that the short time for upgrade was mainly due to the large Number of pilots leaving back home instead of the growth alone. Iím strongly considering applying to QR or EK and this is a main factor to me, once itís almost impossible to achieve a reasonable payment merged with a nice career in South America.
ERJ190 is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2019, 10:05
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: A castle in the sky
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by BigGeordie View Post
Don't forget the deductions from the above figures for family medical insurance and provident fund contributions.
I thought EK covered medical for you and your family?
GE115b is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2019, 12:41
  #34 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,888
Originally Posted by ERJ190 View Post


Is it really like that? Do you believe that the upgrade time is significantly increasing in the next few years?
I always thought that the short time for upgrade was mainly due to the large Number of pilots leaving back home instead of the growth alone. Iím strongly considering applying to QR or EK and this is a main factor to me, once itís almost impossible to achieve a reasonable payment merged with a nice career in South America.
So you think the quick upgrade time is because of people leaving, and you think
that going to EK is a good idea? Really ?
SOPS is online now  
Old 18th Feb 2019, 12:47
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 947
GE115b, they provide medical (and dental) treatment for you and your spouse and children, for which they make a monthly deduction from your salary. For a spouse this is 285 Dhs (or about US$78) a month- not a fortune but far from "free". This is basically an insurance scheme BUT Emirates are the insurance provider and the limits for some treatments (especially for family) are not high. Most pilots purchase top up insurance for their families as health care in Dubai is very expensive.

It is worth thinking about this for a moment- your employer is also the healthcare provider (via Emirates own clinic) for you and your family. Your employer will be the one who decides if a treatment is covered or not and they know exactly all about you and your family's medical history. Some people are okay with their employer knowing how many fillings they have in their teeth, some less so.
BigGeordie is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2019, 13:51
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Campinas, BR
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post


So you think the quick upgrade time is because of people leaving, and you think
that going to EK is a good idea? Really ?
I used to think like that, but I donít have any precise information to secure anything. Thatís why Iím respectfully asking you guys.
About being a good idea, I get your point, but...maybe it is, considering my current status (really low pay, no upgrade expectations) and the third world country I live in.

Best regards!
ERJ190 is offline  
Old 18th Feb 2019, 19:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: A castle in the sky
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by BigGeordie View Post
GE115b, they provide medical (and dental) treatment for you and your spouse and children, for which they make a monthly deduction from your salary. For a spouse this is 285 Dhs (or about US$78) a month- not a fortune but far from "free". This is basically an insurance scheme BUT Emirates are the insurance provider and the limits for some treatments (especially for family) are not high. Most pilots purchase top up insurance for their families as health care in Dubai is very expensive.

It is worth thinking about this for a moment- your employer is also the healthcare provider (via Emirates own clinic) for you and your family. Your employer will be the one who decides if a treatment is covered or not and they know exactly all about you and your family's medical history. Some people are okay with their employer knowing how many fillings they have in their teeth, some less so.
Incredible! (in a bad way). So you have to contribute something towards your medical cover, just like the education allowance.

What happens if you get sick enroute or down route?
GE115b is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2019, 11:09
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: UAE
Posts: 947
Just to clarify, the insurance for the pilots is "free" and of course you are covered for treatment on layovers. BUT (there is always a but with EK) they continue to chip away at the benefits for family in Dubai, placing lower limits on what they will pay for a consultation in Dubai (down to 500 Dhs now, which is usually not enough. You pay the extra). More and more hospitals and clinics are also becoming "pay and claim" instead of direct billing. So the cost comes out of your pocket initially and you have to claim it back, hoping you don't fall foul of some small print somewhere that says you aren't actually eligible for that particular treatment.
BigGeordie is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 08:26
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Doctor's waiting room
Posts: 572
Originally Posted by ERJ190 View Post


Is it really like that? Do you believe that the upgrade time is significantly increasing in the next few years?
I always thought that the short time for upgrade was mainly due to the large Number of pilots leaving back home instead of the growth alone. I’m strongly considering applying to QR or EK and this is the main factor to me, once it’s almost impossible to achieve a reasonable payment merged with a nice career in South America.
It would take a significant amount of attrition to create time the time to command that we have witnessed to date.

If you look at this simply with some very rough maths using 4000 pilots with 1000 F/Os on the 777 and the 380 each. Even with 10% attrition on its own (which is probably on the high side), it would take 10 years for an F/O joining now to work their way up. In reality, there are slightly more than 4000 pilots and there is not a 50/50 balance between the 777 and the 380 but I just wanted to illustrate the point that, you will face a longer wait if you simply take attrition into account.

The 777 fleet will in fact shrink slightly, as there will be no new 777 deliveries until the 777X arrives yet the steady trickle of retirements of older 300ERs will continue.

Also worth pointing out that there is limited capacity to expand at DXB due to the shortage of parking stands on the EK aprons during the rush hour periods. Any move to DWC will be a few years away at the very least.

Last edited by Emma Royds; 26th Feb 2019 at 08:36.
Emma Royds is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2019, 15:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 50
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by SOPS View Post


So you think the quick upgrade time is because of people leaving, and you think
that going to EK is a good idea? Really ?
And from what I hear the applications are pouring into EK headquarters.
Itís really hard to believe that pilots want to join with everything going on here. Donít they read or talk to pilots already here?
cerbus is offline  

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