Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Excitement

Old 12th Apr 2018, 22:29
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: overthere
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Well the reduction of cabin crew on board has been announced. Should we run a book on which Thursday afternoon in June the reduced pilot ULR crewing will be announced?
donpizmeov is online now  
Old 12th Apr 2018, 22:57
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
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If they're reducing CC levels then the already ridiculous service needs to be reduced too or the complaints will keep rolling in. It's almost impossible already to do it to standard with the full crew, now with less they'll be stretched even more. Watch the stress level go up further.

Speaking of cabin crew it's lovely they're trying to already forget about what happened a month ago.

Reducing pilots on ULR is very dumb. FFS just give a decent package and they will come. Either offer a deal commensurate with being "the world's best airline" or quit pretending to be the best...
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 14:09
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Second officers ? Any guesses when , ULR 1 Capt 2 FO 1 SO
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 14:16
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
Second officers ? Any guesses when , ULR 1 Capt 2 FO 1 SO


Better hope Captain does not get sick down line.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 14:25
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Dubai
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Isn't it fun to wonder what else is coming down the conveyor belt??
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 15:51
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Many other airlines do it!
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 17:58
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted by donpizmeov View Post
Remove two to three cabin crew off flights. Reduce from 4 man ULR to 3 man ULR (scientifically proven these lazy aircrew spend too much time in the bunk don't you know?). And crisis is averted for a few more weeks.
Make big song and dance about removing a few rostering restrictions and promise to have a long hard look at flexible rosters (that's EK style flex roster, not real flex rostering) as a diversion and it should all work a treat.
and EK immediately goes from having the lowest sick call rate to having the highest.
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Old 13th Apr 2018, 23:20
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
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The only real solution is to get rid of all those rostering and leave restrictions. And give a signification upward adjustment to pay.
Commuting rosters may help some, but won't be enough to fix the problem.
donpizmeov is online now  
Old 14th Apr 2018, 04:17
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Rome
Age: 53
Posts: 17
Pretty easy to picture in the following video how a company will definitively sink with wrong people at the wrong place at the wrong time


and arrogance and blindness in the next video isn't what is happening?

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Old 14th Apr 2018, 05:42
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Stratosphere
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There will be no SO's...cadets would automatically have to be SO's...and that ain't EVER going to happen..

TM
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 15:45
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by trimotor View Post
There will be no SO's...cadets would automatically have to be SO's...and that ain't EVER going to happen..

TM
SO is just a name, it doesnít mean anything so you could instead call it Junior FO.
A Junior FO would be a low experienced expat who hasnít done his time in the airline as opposed to a cadet who gets his time of service ( staff number ) accounted for when he first started his training.
Cadets would remain FOs due to their length of service and that way, all egos would be preserved and you would effectively have SOs.
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Old 14th Apr 2018, 16:00
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Middle East
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by AMEX
A Junior FO would be a low experienced expat who hasn’t done his time in the airline as opposed to a cadet who gets his time of service ( staff number ) accounted for when he first started his training.
As fatbus says, a lot of airlines have this type of system, it’s a great way to hire low time inexperienced guys and gals, let them gain experience first hand by permanently “augmenting” every leg until their seniority number is high enough to shift across to the right seat as a SFO......and the company can offer them a reduced or lower package until the move across to SFO......

The only serious issue with this type of system is that the hours in the logbook are sometimes not acknowledged by other operators, and thus can be viewed by a prospective applicant as a potential waste of time, the other issue is dependent on how long one would sit in this position, especially if you’re being bypassed by direct entry fo’s and cadets

Last edited by Fuzuma; 18th Apr 2018 at 09:26.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 05:24
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Originally Posted by Fuzuma View Post

The only serious issue with this type of system is that the hours in the logbook are sometimes not acknowledged by other operators, and thus can be viewed by a prospective aplicant as a potential waste of time, the other issue is dependent on how long one would sit in this position, especially if youíre being bypassed by direct entry foís and cadets
Then they would get bypassed by DECs 😀... Better they get used to it early then .
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 08:12
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mars
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Have EK not already got lowering experience. Why would you want it to go any lower and risk even more line incidents? The other snag is the Line Training requirement, Cadets and SOs put it through the roof.

This is a rate battle; recruitment rate + training rate vs. attrition rate

The only way to win in the short term is to kill the attrition to provide breathing space.
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 08:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Europe
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Originally Posted by Schnowzer View Post
Have EK not already got lowering experience. Why would you want it to go any lower and risk even more line incidents? The other snag is the Line Training requirement, Cadets and SOs put it through the roof.

This is a rate battle; recruitment rate + training rate vs. attrition rate

The only way to win in the short term is to kill the attrition to provide breathing space.

Iím asking because I donít know the answer... has experience had anything to do with a significant number of recent incidences?
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 09:10
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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has experience had anything to do with a significant number of recent incidences?
Yes, experience with management
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 10:33
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 38
Second Officers?

if you wanted to keep a pay differential between the present F/O salary and a proposed scale for S/O - is there enough 'room' there to actually pay a Dubai-Living wage and still attract applicants?
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 11:09
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: on earth
Posts: 302
you would be surprised , there are second officers in Flydubai paid 12000 Dhs/month ( all included ), no allowance , no sector pay ) until released on line and then 20000 Dhs until reaching 1500hrs...
And they are still flowing in...
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Old 15th Apr 2018, 14:43
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UAE
Posts: 274
Junior FOs or guys looking for their first jet are better off going to FD than EK. Initially the money is less, a lot less, but time to command is almost half and the possibilities after that outweigh widebody experience
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Old 18th Apr 2018, 08:32
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
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Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
@ 3 Rd week April for AGM re: profit share or not . @mid May for pilot pay review, email not really an announcement .
Last years profits were announced on 2nd Thursday in May
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