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I clearly recall the hiring of DEC's from the likes of Ryanair. Zero longhaul experience, zero widebody experience, zero EK experience, some really, uh, interesting, ways of flying machines a tad larger than they were used to, yet many in the right seat were passed over so they could babysit the newbie captains. By only the luck of timing I was fortunate to avoid being terribly disadvantaged, but it was painful to see far more qualified FO's getting delayed by these...folks.
This was at least 10 years ago. Suddenly everyone is aghast?
As donpizmeov is so fond of telling everyone, you knew what you signed on for, don't complain now. And if you didn't know, it's your fault. Right, don?
This was at least 10 years ago. Suddenly everyone is aghast?
As donpizmeov is so fond of telling everyone, you knew what you signed on for, don't complain now. And if you didn't know, it's your fault. Right, don?
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Originally Posted by harry the cod
So, here's the scene.
In the Red corner is pilot A. Pilot A is already employed by this Company. He is a known quantity. He was previously a senior trainer on the 330/340 fleet who left EK over ten years ago. During his tenure away from EK he'd been an EASA qualified TRE on the A319/320 and came back to EK as a DEC onto the A320 private jet. Shortly after rejoining, he was informed that there wasn't really enough work to justify keeping him solely on that fleet so he'd have to fly the 330 too. Fine, not really an issue. However, a year or so later when the last 330 retired he was moved over to the 380, but because of some daft and inflexible policy restriction, right seat. Rather magnanimously EK declared he could keep rank, privileges and pay! (sarcasm) That situation, you could argue, may be acceptable for a short time filler. That he's now required to undergo a full Command course, including tech test, psychology evaluation, interview board, two day CRM, full ground school and all the simulator and line training assessments, simply beggars belief. And if that's not ridiculous enough, the fact that he's currently a trainer, examining both Captains and F/O's and signing of their licences every day, merely highlights what a debacle this over complicated and under thought upgrade policy has become. Thank god he's over 35!!!
In the blue corner, Captain B. Captain B is about to join us as a DEC from some slightly dodgy outfit with a few aircraft. Although he will have a 3 day interview and selection process with simulator, he's a lesser known quantity than Captain A. He will also NOT be required to do a separate Command interview. He will NOT be required to take a technical exam on the aircraft systems. He will NOT be required to do a separate two day CRM command course. In fact, he will not be required to undertake a whole host of checks and assessments that pilot A has done and will have to.
Given the choice, which one would any sensible person, with even half an ounce of common sense choose? We've just lost one Deputy on the Boeing and may be about to lose another. That's after losing the DSVP last year due to moral and integrity contradictions with executive management. The SVP left for more personal reasons.
If our EVP's intent is to encourage and support policies such as this, the long term future of this Company can not be viewed as a positive one.
Harry
Edited to add;
bringbackthe80s. I'm sure that fliion's comments were more in aghast than agreement, at least that's how I read it.
In the Red corner is pilot A. Pilot A is already employed by this Company. He is a known quantity. He was previously a senior trainer on the 330/340 fleet who left EK over ten years ago. During his tenure away from EK he'd been an EASA qualified TRE on the A319/320 and came back to EK as a DEC onto the A320 private jet. Shortly after rejoining, he was informed that there wasn't really enough work to justify keeping him solely on that fleet so he'd have to fly the 330 too. Fine, not really an issue. However, a year or so later when the last 330 retired he was moved over to the 380, but because of some daft and inflexible policy restriction, right seat. Rather magnanimously EK declared he could keep rank, privileges and pay! (sarcasm) That situation, you could argue, may be acceptable for a short time filler. That he's now required to undergo a full Command course, including tech test, psychology evaluation, interview board, two day CRM, full ground school and all the simulator and line training assessments, simply beggars belief. And if that's not ridiculous enough, the fact that he's currently a trainer, examining both Captains and F/O's and signing of their licences every day, merely highlights what a debacle this over complicated and under thought upgrade policy has become. Thank god he's over 35!!!
In the blue corner, Captain B. Captain B is about to join us as a DEC from some slightly dodgy outfit with a few aircraft. Although he will have a 3 day interview and selection process with simulator, he's a lesser known quantity than Captain A. He will also NOT be required to do a separate Command interview. He will NOT be required to take a technical exam on the aircraft systems. He will NOT be required to do a separate two day CRM command course. In fact, he will not be required to undertake a whole host of checks and assessments that pilot A has done and will have to.
Given the choice, which one would any sensible person, with even half an ounce of common sense choose? We've just lost one Deputy on the Boeing and may be about to lose another. That's after losing the DSVP last year due to moral and integrity contradictions with executive management. The SVP left for more personal reasons.
If our EVP's intent is to encourage and support policies such as this, the long term future of this Company can not be viewed as a positive one.
Harry
Edited to add;
bringbackthe80s. I'm sure that fliion's comments were more in aghast than agreement, at least that's how I read it.
When I was there, I rapidly got to realise the ‘Alice in Wonderland’ approach to reality that was Emirates Airlines. Common sense disappeared. I was at a meeting whereby it was declared that turbo prop pilots were the holy grail answer to recruitment. Dissenting voices were glossed over and ignored. Not that turbo prop pilots are not skilled at what they do - far from it. However it was / is a mighty big leap to wide body global ops. The aviation version of political correctness is to imply that tp pilots are ‘real’ pilots and the rest of us are just button pushers. We all know that is an over simplification. Manifestly Harry is right. However, once again common sense leaves the room. Or how about an A380 SFE who has never flown an Airbus for real? And not reticent about criticising senior A380 captains. A bit like a first aider checking a consultant surgeon. I was constantly amazed at the juxtaposition between the perceived glamour external to ek and the internal realty. You couldn’t make it up.
Harold pilot A did some of my command training 15yrs ago. What a gent. What a waste of talent.
Sounds about right nolimit. FOs have been bypassed by DECs for a few decades. It ain't right but it ain't new.
Sounds about right nolimit. FOs have been bypassed by DECs for a few decades. It ain't right but it ain't new.
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Harry, you’re just now coming to the conclusion that the long term prospects for Emirates are not positive? This operation and the treatment of its pilots have been off the rails for years but I’m glad you see what so many of us have been whinging about. We all know the only thing we can do is leave and that is why so many pilots are indeed leaving.
Why doesn’t the pilot in the Red corner you described just leave and go to a better airline? He’s been shafted beyond belief. I know you are not his representative (that would be illegal mate) but there’s only so much a human can take.
Why doesn’t the pilot in the Red corner you described just leave and go to a better airline? He’s been shafted beyond belief. I know you are not his representative (that would be illegal mate) but there’s only so much a human can take.
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Originally Posted by fliion
Correct Harry - aghast covers it 👍
