Enough...done
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Those that get turned down by recruitment always wish the worst for EK. Same goes for the FO's that did not get their" promised" upgrade at 3 years. Many other frustrated pilots like to vent on Pprune and the flight deck. Personally I wish they would live it out of the flight deck. Everyone knows someone with the newest and juiciest of rumours, only to be proven wrong with time.
Children of the magenta ( and green) line thrive on social media ,hence fake news. It get tiring and boring quickly.
It use to be a fun job !
Children of the magenta ( and green) line thrive on social media ,hence fake news. It get tiring and boring quickly.
It use to be a fun job !
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777-up,
I don't know if you have friends in other industries, but if you do, talk and start listening to them. The bailout (of Dubai) that occurred last time courtesy of Abu Dhabi won't, (because they no longer have the means), happen again. The UAE is in trouble - talk to those outside of aviation. Don't fall into the 'Too Big To Fail' mindset, history has proven over and over what happens when people start believing that fallacy. *Do I think that EK will go bankrupt? No. But you can't say it will never happen.
No, but if EK bury a 380 there is going to be immense brand damage done, that will lead to the loss of a LOT of jobs. For a long time.
Are you new? Genuine question, because if you've been around for a while you'd realise that EK has been hurting for pilots for a long time because it isn't in a position to throw money to fix the problems anymore. Why do you think they have lowered the requirements to Turbo-Prop (not a go at T-P guys but rather at EK arrogance of not long ago - "We will never recruit non-Jet qualified pilots") and 2000hr jet jockeys? Why do you think all of the cost-cutting is occurring? Why do you think all the new 'revenue-raising' ideas are jumping up everyday?
No, but he feels like most of us who have left and voiced something which deep down I will say he doesn't want to happen. In the most sincere case of schadenfreude I too have moments of wishing EK would go bust in the ugliest of manners, to completely destroy the arrogant rulers of the company. But that's the point isn't it? It won't destroy them, it'll destroy the 60,000 families of the employees of EK, but not those who deserve it most. So the occasional moments when I sit with a G&T and ponder the pleasure of watching those immature, arrogant, senseless and completely ill-equipped-for-the-job managers get their comeuppance are fleeting, because I know that the pain I want to inflict won't occur where it deserves to.
Bankruptcy? Would have already happened if it was going to...
Accident(s)? Even if it does (hope not) will never lead to shut down...
Can't get pilots? Pay raise & other improvements fix it...
Your wishing it on us (with or without justification) doesn't make it so. What are we missing, that would cause your predicted total shut down & massive sorrow for those who remain?
Last edited by greenfields; 20th Jan 2018 at 01:46.
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Hello Greenfields & Fatbus, yes I understand & agree on a number of your points. No, I'm not 'new'.
We have to be realistic. The strong probability is there's going to be an emma-rates around for the next 10, 20, 30+ years (and beyond).
It is indeed frustrating at times (constantly for some). My point is some wishing a thing to disappear, won't make it happen.
Now, I'm fairly happy here, however I fully understand why some are not. Each of us has to decide for ourselves.
The grass is always greener. Moving companies can have a huge influence on your & family future (education, health care still very good benefits here); possibly positive, possibly negative too.
I was at a location in the UK recently and spoke with the dispatcher who also handles Norwegian. He told us there are a number of ex-emma-rates Capts there. Not all are happy with their previous decision to leave.
One he spoke with sincerely regretted leaving ee-kay. He was working almost as much on 787, for about 1/2 the take-home pay. While 'based' in his home country, but away from home more, on longer layovers.
Just relaying what dispatcher said.
There's no easy answers. The pay & conditions will improve here (I'm guessing by about 10%+) when they absolutely have to, and when it makes clear commercial sense for them to do so. Shouldn't be that way, as a lot of talent walked away but it's on them.
Being proactive appears to be something some org find challenging.
Let's hope it's sooner, rather than later...
We have to be realistic. The strong probability is there's going to be an emma-rates around for the next 10, 20, 30+ years (and beyond).
It is indeed frustrating at times (constantly for some). My point is some wishing a thing to disappear, won't make it happen.
Now, I'm fairly happy here, however I fully understand why some are not. Each of us has to decide for ourselves.
The grass is always greener. Moving companies can have a huge influence on your & family future (education, health care still very good benefits here); possibly positive, possibly negative too.
I was at a location in the UK recently and spoke with the dispatcher who also handles Norwegian. He told us there are a number of ex-emma-rates Capts there. Not all are happy with their previous decision to leave.
One he spoke with sincerely regretted leaving ee-kay. He was working almost as much on 787, for about 1/2 the take-home pay. While 'based' in his home country, but away from home more, on longer layovers.
Just relaying what dispatcher said.
There's no easy answers. The pay & conditions will improve here (I'm guessing by about 10%+) when they absolutely have to, and when it makes clear commercial sense for them to do so. Shouldn't be that way, as a lot of talent walked away but it's on them.
Being proactive appears to be something some org find challenging.
Let's hope it's sooner, rather than later...
Last edited by 777-Up; 20th Jan 2018 at 11:28.
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The pay & conditions will improve here (I'm guessing by about 10%+)
I don't want to be seen as negative but simply being a realist. There will of course be a EK in the years ahead and that is certain but in what size and shape that EK will develop into, is less certain.
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If they're parking aircraft due to manpower (if) and they believe it's costing them money, an increase becomes a fairly simple business decision.
We'll have to wait & see. Viewers just need to keep in mind; certain scribes here may be encouraging others to leave, hoping to create a greater outflow, so those who remain can try to reap the benefits of staying, should pay go up.
short flights long nights
It will never happen....we got a "big " rise, the year after I joined..2007. From then on it has gone down hill. The "contract" that I signed in 2007 talks about 75 hours a month, then overtime, 6 weeks annual leave....yada, yada, yada.....do not wait for a increase in benefits, it will never happen....the only way to increase your personal benefit is to leave....
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That's what they were saying here about the recent, new A380 order... 380 was going into the dustbin of history. Then the new order happened.
Nothing stays the same forever. People change, positions change, orgs re-evaluate. Watch this space for news by March/April.
Nothing stays the same forever. People change, positions change, orgs re-evaluate. Watch this space for news by March/April.
Last edited by 777-Up; 20th Jan 2018 at 13:24.
Em 10% would still not catch us up to the increments we have had withheld. I think you are right though.
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Excise duty in 2017, VAT 1 January 2018, inflation for the last year.........I think we are lucky if we get change out of a 15% increase in the last year. That doesn't mention the previous years worth of inflation, where we didn't even get the 3% to help cover it.
By rough estimates, we are down by at least 20% plus since the last step in 2016.
10% wouldn't even keep us level to 2 years ago.
By rough estimates, we are down by at least 20% plus since the last step in 2016.
10% wouldn't even keep us level to 2 years ago.
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As curious person outside of the ME...
If a 10% rise were to happen...
Would it be better appreciated in straight pay or a 10% reduction in hours worked... or say 5% reduction in time and more schedule flexibility (flexibility often requires more staffing redundancy which costs...)
If you in the direct pay camp, it just seems like even with a 10% raise, none of the other issues that beat you down over time are resolved. I am missing something?
If a 10% rise were to happen...
Would it be better appreciated in straight pay or a 10% reduction in hours worked... or say 5% reduction in time and more schedule flexibility (flexibility often requires more staffing redundancy which costs...)
If you in the direct pay camp, it just seems like even with a 10% raise, none of the other issues that beat you down over time are resolved. I am missing something?
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As curious person outside of the ME...
If a 10% rise were to happen...
Would it be better appreciated in straight pay or a 10% reduction in hours worked... or say 5% reduction in time and more schedule flexibility (flexibility often requires more staffing redundancy which costs...)
If you in the direct pay camp, it just seems like even with a 10% raise, none of the other issues that beat you down over time are resolved. I am missing something?
If a 10% rise were to happen...
Would it be better appreciated in straight pay or a 10% reduction in hours worked... or say 5% reduction in time and more schedule flexibility (flexibility often requires more staffing redundancy which costs...)
If you in the direct pay camp, it just seems like even with a 10% raise, none of the other issues that beat you down over time are resolved. I am missing something?
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Sorry Dog
I'm sure the majority of EK pilots would take a 10% reduction in hours any day.
However, and here's the rub, to achieve such a reduction, you firstly need to have the correct manpower levels in place. We haven't, and the only way that's ever going to change is by attracting skilled and competent individuals with a competitive and enhanced package. Not a two tier system or one that offers a tempting joining bonus, but a revamp across the entire board to stem the flow of current experienced and qualified pilots.
Harry
I'm sure the majority of EK pilots would take a 10% reduction in hours any day.
However, and here's the rub, to achieve such a reduction, you firstly need to have the correct manpower levels in place. We haven't, and the only way that's ever going to change is by attracting skilled and competent individuals with a competitive and enhanced package. Not a two tier system or one that offers a tempting joining bonus, but a revamp across the entire board to stem the flow of current experienced and qualified pilots.
Harry
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I came here to work and make money while I'm here, not sit in Costa.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.
More hours = more overtime = more money.
Last December I got called out on stby ULR for a SEA flight when I was already at 92 hours. The paycheque was impressive. I made in that one month what it took me ten months to make in my previous job.
Sign me up.
😈