Perfect Storm
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Joined: Jul 2009
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From: On the sidewalk
Perfect Storm
So, I've now experienced the Turbo Prop Wonder boy trained by the TRI who just became a Captain himself a couple of months prior (Not an assumption, he confirmed that). Full of "techniques" and other bull!!!! that can only be explained by "making !!!! up to appear competent".
3/4 of the time he didn't even understand what the EU ATC wanted from him, and that was only the PM leg.
The PF leg was even worse.
The perfect storm.
Edit: And, just to clarify, the guy had a great attitude and will eventually be a good SFO. It's just that the training department has let him down.
3/4 of the time he didn't even understand what the EU ATC wanted from him, and that was only the PM leg.
The PF leg was even worse.
The perfect storm.
Edit: And, just to clarify, the guy had a great attitude and will eventually be a good SFO. It's just that the training department has let him down.
Last edited by InnocentBystander; 25th July 2016 at 12:55.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 1
From: earth
Write your concerns with details to your fleet training manager not here.
After all it was those same managers who trained the FO, the captain and the trainer and gave them the nod!
I know nothing will change with a rant on here, but nothing changes anyway with such a rotten and sometimes even corrupt system in dire need of bodies. So at least we can vent some anger here, it's relieving .....
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
Likes: 140
From: overthere
Glofish,
The managers have probably never flown with the FO, nor the LTCs if they are new. They rely on someone getting a 2 to highlight that something is wrong. If that don't happen they are clueless.
I can think of several trainers that have been removed from training when reports ( that's plural) stated they were no good. So yes, writing does make a difference.
The managers have probably never flown with the FO, nor the LTCs if they are new. They rely on someone getting a 2 to highlight that something is wrong. If that don't happen they are clueless.
I can think of several trainers that have been removed from training when reports ( that's plural) stated they were no good. So yes, writing does make a difference.
Last edited by donpizmeov; 25th July 2016 at 11:53.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 154
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From: On the sidewalk
Write your concerns with details to your fleet training manager not here.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 2
From: MIDDLE EAST
IB
Well, having a Bangalore, Chennai and Male now as layovers as well as extending SEY beyond min rest is proof that reports DO work. When people say they can't be bothered because nothing will change, they're right. If you don't bother, nothing will change.
At least by submitting a report, something MAY change. Writing to the head of training with the concern will not only highlight the problem, but will make them culpable when things go wrong. Without doing so, there's no email trail and plenty of excuses that 'they didn't know because nobody told them'!
Just do it and copy in AAR too. Not only will the policy have come from him but he wants to hear from us......remember!
Harry
Well, having a Bangalore, Chennai and Male now as layovers as well as extending SEY beyond min rest is proof that reports DO work. When people say they can't be bothered because nothing will change, they're right. If you don't bother, nothing will change.
At least by submitting a report, something MAY change. Writing to the head of training with the concern will not only highlight the problem, but will make them culpable when things go wrong. Without doing so, there's no email trail and plenty of excuses that 'they didn't know because nobody told them'!
Just do it and copy in AAR too. Not only will the policy have come from him but he wants to hear from us......remember!
Harry
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 85
From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
I can assure you that if TM got an email saying a TC had bollocked someone for being courteous in leaving charts accessible, at a MINIMUM the offending TC would get a talking too.
Well worth reporting that kind of crap.
Well worth reporting that kind of crap.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 154
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From: On the sidewalk
Well, having a Bangalore, Chennai and Male now as layovers as well as extending SEY beyond min rest is proof that reports DO work. When people say they can't be bothered because nothing will change, they're right. If you don't bother, nothing will change.
This is like saying we need more accidents, because only accidents will lead to change.
I'm sorry, but I won't do the job of these high paid managers for them. They're simply passing the buck, because they won't risk their cushy job and maid and driver and second maid.
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: In Fresh Air
The head of human factors begged us once at a CRM recurrent to write more reports, because only more reports will lead to change. A similar request has been made to me by the CP-B.
This is like saying we need more accidents, because only accidents will lead to change.
I'm sorry, but I won't do the job of these high paid managers for them. They're simply passing the buck, because they won't risk their cushy job and maid and driver and second maid.
This is like saying we need more accidents, because only accidents will lead to change.
I'm sorry, but I won't do the job of these high paid managers for them. They're simply passing the buck, because they won't risk their cushy job and maid and driver and second maid.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 204
Likes: 14
From: .
It sounds like the problem is indeed the training environment as well as the on-line attitude and not the applicants background. I went from a turboprop straight into a hvy trijet, as did alot of my peers, and adjusted very well,we all did. The transition training was stringent, but we also had good, competent support from the line captains. If a line captain expects perfection from a newhire, then the disappointment of said captain is to be expected. Back in the days when we were pilots, we supported and mentored the new guys. I guess those days are becoming but a memory for some who forget they were also less experienced once.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 9
From: BHX LXR ASW
Why write ASR's etc when management can read all about it on here? Next time you're called in for 'Tea and biccys' and a manager asks 'I've read a report on a forum.........is it true that........?
I suspect some managers reach for their pads to read after a 9 hour beauty sleep to see what's been written about them.
I suspect some managers reach for their pads to read after a 9 hour beauty sleep to see what's been written about them.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,034
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From: MIDDLE EAST
Fully agree with Panther88
IB
Second maid? What, for the HF manager? Don't think so pal, you might be surprised to know that he's taking home less than a junior F/O.
When you say that you're not prepared to do 'their' job for them, what is 'your' job exactly? I would think that as a professional, and particularly as a Captain, you would take the responsibility of submitting these reports because whether you like it or not, it IS your responsibility. As the commander of the aircraft, you are required, and expected, to highlight actual or potential threats in our operation, square and simple. The whole point of these reports is that we're trying to avoid the accident you think is necessary before people listen.
By throwing your hands up and saying 'not my aisle mate', you become just as negligent as those that you criticise. Ironically, you're protecting these 'high paid managers' by not highlighting problems. The Challenger disaster, Chernobyl, Herald of Free Enterprise are just a few examples of where management were informed on many occasions of systemic and design defects but chose to do nothing. They were the ones that became culpable in the investigation, not the individuals at the pointy end.
Harry
IB
Second maid? What, for the HF manager? Don't think so pal, you might be surprised to know that he's taking home less than a junior F/O.
When you say that you're not prepared to do 'their' job for them, what is 'your' job exactly? I would think that as a professional, and particularly as a Captain, you would take the responsibility of submitting these reports because whether you like it or not, it IS your responsibility. As the commander of the aircraft, you are required, and expected, to highlight actual or potential threats in our operation, square and simple. The whole point of these reports is that we're trying to avoid the accident you think is necessary before people listen.
By throwing your hands up and saying 'not my aisle mate', you become just as negligent as those that you criticise. Ironically, you're protecting these 'high paid managers' by not highlighting problems. The Challenger disaster, Chernobyl, Herald of Free Enterprise are just a few examples of where management were informed on many occasions of systemic and design defects but chose to do nothing. They were the ones that became culpable in the investigation, not the individuals at the pointy end.
Harry
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 348
Likes: 0
From: Austria
Guys those introduced layovers are not really a consequence of your reports its more of the company beeing nowadays scared of foreign oversight as those flights/layover simply were illegal concerning flight duty.
Its hiding their muppet !!!!.
The truth is getting closer and more changes will happen as the outside pressure is getting stronger.
Its hiding their muppet !!!!.
The truth is getting closer and more changes will happen as the outside pressure is getting stronger.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 219
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From: Far and Height
Not understanding network accents has nothing to see with ex turboprop experience,just network inexperience.
Otherwise yes Innocent unfortunately the core of the problem is connected with lack of staff,expanding airline,...etc...
Otherwise yes Innocent unfortunately the core of the problem is connected with lack of staff,expanding airline,...etc...
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,777
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From: uae
Classic, complain about long night turns . They get changed to a layover. Some of the US ULRs changed to longer layovers. Now the complaints are about only 9 days off in a month. Boys it's time to face reality. 100 hrs/ 900 hard hrs and 9 days off. 777 is now duty limited, 380 still hours limited. That is not going to change.
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 903
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From: lagos
At the OP, out of curiosity how do the local cadets do at EK? Are they trained under a completely different program , more sim, more sectors ?
The turbo prop driver must have had a lot more experience than the kids just starting out?!
The turbo prop driver must have had a lot more experience than the kids just starting out?!