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Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

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Old 12th Oct 2017, 09:27   #61 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: xxx
Posts: 55
I like to thank airdancer,
as he says lives are very different here and it depends strongly on the livestyle u set.
i end up with 5000 -7000 a month and i have to say its not the car (its long paid of)
i my case a wife, a kid and the fact that both of us want the have a nice place to stay, sop yes we do up our house and invest a good part of my salary in the lifestyle here and now. But again it is depending on the individual and i strongly believe that airdancers number and mine give a good picture where u will be in terms of saving. and i save too not as much as airdancer, just for the given fact but i do and as a captain u will do easy a good saving per month.
Fact is also prices are increasing and more costs will be dragged down to us. As for now with as average lifestyle (we are not rich) u will build up money for later but the amount u can save will decrease over the time for a lot of factors. On the other hand thats not any different to any other place in the world as for now.


#AIMINGHIGH123

therefore moneywise the deceision is fairly easy, if u come make shure u both like it in the long term. I personaly sometimes like it, sometimes don't care and to be honest i hate it. Nothing unnatural it is not my home country where are a lot of things i miss which is more about what i can do with a limited time of, but is a different story and again very very individual.
my personal advice to u is to make shure u and especially your wife can live at a place where the laws are a very expandable and very much depending on your passport and origin are in interpretation. you have to make shure that u can accept a certain amount of unfairness, being not able to influence it, in the long run.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 10:08   #62 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: dubai
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdancer View Post
Ok let's be honest:

I live in company accommodation. So this is what I pay:

625 AED for internet/tv/tel from etisalat(This is the cheapest option with internet boost)

I shop once a month at carrefour and buy most of my stuff on offer. Roughly 800 AED per trip.

I eat out once a week or visit a cinema to keep the missus happy. Let's say around 500 AED.

We both have a phone bill which comes roughly at a 1000 AED for both. She has a simple one, I got the expensive one.

I have no maid, I don't hire cleaners.

I have a car but did not take a loan from EK. Very simple ford fiesta and pay 1625 per year so let's say 135 AED per month.

I don't drive it only that once a month as I'm situated very nicely close to the metro. Make it 200 AED per month for fuel which is very drastic.

My wife uses the metro a lot (gold card) but doesn't go over 200 AED per month.

Most of my shopping is done overseas with EK money. I do freighter a lot so that means we get nice allowances (zaragoza, hmmmmm).

I have never gone over my elec/ac usage. We have the AC on in all rooms 24/7 but do turn off the lights of course.

So that's 3525 per month spending on necessities. I put in my 5% each month meaning I end up with (80h per month) 28000 AED. Take 3500 away, 24500 AED.

Guess what. I send 20k home easily and keep around 2-5k AED in my bank for emergencies.

It's really not hard if you act like you were acting before coming to dubai. Unfortunately people take loans to buy big fancy cars, Do up the house or garden and take several maids. Yes I don't have kids and not planning to. I'm here to make money, not to build a family.
With a wife and a 6yo, we spend 1603aed on "necessities", so we save 51312aed and 12 fils every month . We live under the tree next to Airdancer's.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 10:42   #63 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Sharp End.
Posts: 426
Hahahaha....
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 11:29   #64 (permalink)

 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Sandstorm
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by maimax View Post
With a wife and a 6yo, we spend 1603aed on "necessities", so we save 51312aed and 12 fils every month . We live under the tree next to Airdancer's.
Funny. You've been complaining since 2010 and didn't change. I feel bad for you mate!
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 11:46   #65 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: dubai
Posts: 17
Don’t feel bad Dancer, we all have ups and downs. I’m not unhappy here. Just took your bait....Mate

Last edited by maimax; 12th Oct 2017 at 14:30.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 12:03   #66 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Knoteatingham
Posts: 737
The cost of living is, within certain limits, what you choose to make it. You can live simply and save or you can get all the fancy toys and the loans that come with them and not save.

But, if you are coming just for money I suggest that you may well be very unhappy, very quickly. It is vital that you, and any accompanying family members, know that there is a good chance of you being happy in Dubai before uprooting your existing lifestyle.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 12:14   #67 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Mars
Posts: 488
Go onto https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living Use other sites too.

Have a look at what your life will cost. If you go out a beer costs twice as much as Covent Garden but maybe you don't drink. The shocker for me is telecom, tv and entertainment. There are hidden costs to think about too. For instance I spend 60k every year shuttling family between the UK and UAE but have older kids and family that need a hand. Beware of some of the posters on here, they jump from left to right seat, 2 to 20 years seniority and troll continually in their posts. Do your own homework dispassionately and you will be fine. Just to add, Dubai is a great city when all is going well but when it goes badly, cross the wrong person; it can turn into a ball of chalk really quickly.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 15:59   #68 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 24.7098N 46.7252E
Posts: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdancer View Post

I shop once a month at carrefour and buy most of my stuff on offer. Roughly 800 AED per trip.

I eat out once a week or visit a cinema to keep the missus happy.
What do you and you wife eat? 800dh per month on food for 6/7 days a week?

That is less than 10USD per day! (33dh) for the two of you or 5 USD per day each.

How exactly do you guys live on the cost of cup of coffee each day.

I suspect your figures might be innacurate
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 17:26   #69 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: London
Posts: 225
For me the money is not the main reason but it is a consideration.
I have been exploring options and for me it comes down to 2 options:
None are guaranteed as still have to be pass interview process, selection etc.
A. Airline based London area(Thomson/BA/Jet2/EasyJet). Me and wife both working to be able to live. Very different airlines but Thomson seems to offer the best overal life/work/pay balance.

B. Middle East. My salary would cover cost of living. Positive is my wife would be able to look after child and she is possibly looking at taking time out from her career in finance.

The main negative with A is our child is going to have to go into child care and baby sitting. We don't really want to do it but it finances would be so tight on just my salary.

Option B obviously Emirates work life is hard the rosters aren't easy I get that but the Dubai life we would be comfortable with. My wife has spent a lot of time in Kuwait and she was actually born in Doha so she knows what living in the Middle East entails.

Both options could lead to C and D which are......

C I end up divorced misses throws me out so I end up working in China.

D I end up divorced misses throws me out so I end up bootlegging cheap alcohol across the boarder in to the UAE to sell to Emirates crew.

From the responses on here D would be most financially rewarding.
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 18:50   #70 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: usa
Posts: 911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Airdancer View Post
P.s. you must think I'm boring. My hobbies are free. Gym is free in the building, same goes for swimming pool. I watch sports/films and play a lot of games. All fairly cheap hobbies! Same for the missus.
Nice - Which playground do you use?
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Old 12th Oct 2017, 19:45   #71 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: .
Posts: 258
Wife, no kids, only my salary. Company accommo, one car from the EK car loan. No other debts in Dubai, small CC bill from home and a mortgage that is serviced by our tenants.

We choose very carefully where we eat out and go to the pub, otherwise you can pay double central London prices as a bare minimum. Shop around and you can go a bit cheaper. Depends what you're looking for. Beer & wine usually bought downroute. Several holidays/mini-breaks per year. Still save 2k/month. Different story here with children, especially as an FO. We could probably save more but don't want to be miserable!

Best tip: supermarket shop wisely in Dubai. Ignore Spinneys & Waitrose (think Harrods food hall on an Aldi budget), consider Kibsons online delivery. Choithrams, Carrefour, Union Co-op & Lulu are relatively reasonable.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 00:16   #72 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 313
Good lord Airdancer. Well done...buying clothes and furniture and christmas presents and pretty much everything else on Emirates allowances. That's incredible.

I spend more on porn than you do on monthly essentials.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 02:10   #73 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: South of North
Posts: 648
Most people will spend more than Airdancer to live in Dubai. On an FO salary, if you are careful and single (or married without kids), you should have no problem saving some money. How much will depend on your hobbies.

Add children to the mix and it will change. Very young kids not in school and you will spend less than having 2 kids over the age of six who are also involved in activities.

Long upgrade times for new joiners means you should budget carefully. As a captain you can certainly save. If your wife also has a skill that is in demand - then you can save a LOT of money.

One consideration though: Like investing, your career, at least in financial terms, is a long game! Looking at myself versus the friends who stayed at 'major/legacy' airlines, in the end, they will fare far better financially. This is due to the fact that they will spend an entire career there while most EK pilots will not last to retirement. Very few pilots want to spend their entire life in Dubai, though there are a few. Going home usually means a pay cut or a job commuting with the commensurate lifestyle.

Quite simply, for most of us the draw was/is a big airplane, flying around the globe for good money. It is gratification now vs. later. I am pretty sure most of at EK know someone at home who drools at the thought of doing what we do while he tools around in a 737.

But in the long game, if our friend is at a large airline he will catch up paywise and, if he does not catch up in after tax dollars, he most certainly will when the pension is considered. 20 years of a pension is incredibly valuable and not something most consider.

I also would not consider the housing allowance at EK in any financial planning. Buying a house in Dubai is a muggs game - it may end well, it may end badly. The good times of big increases are gone and at current prices the risk is high and the fixed costs eat away the majority of the allowance.

I don't need PPRuNe to tell me how difficult it has become to live and work in Dubai for EK.
I know the punishing skeds from experience and I know the vast majority of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances want to leave or are leaving.

It is telling that guys who have been here only 2 years are extolling the virtues of the place.

In the end, as I have tried to explain to a few friends who considered coming over the years, it is a risk/reward scenario. EK and Dubai can be good provided that you manage to stay on the very narrow path. You make one wrong move in Dubai (car accident with the wrong person, have consumed alcohol and something happens in which you are not even involved but have been dragged into, are accused of wrong doing etc etc) and your once great career plan is in shambles. EK is the same - wrong place, wrong time, piss of the wrong person etc and, again, career in shambles (even more so now with their warpath mentality).

While the odds of falling off the path or slim I know several pilots who have. The risks that exist here do not exist at home (for most of us).

So, like everything in life, it is a matter of balancing risk in your decision making. Look at the long game and try (I know it's hard ) to take the big shiny airplane out of the picture (you will get there anyway just at a different point in your career).

When I came the risk/reward was worth it (in my case a bankruptcy). I was lucky in my timing. Knowing what I do at the moment I would not come now. The conditions have declined and the risk is much higher especially as EK and the region struggle financially.

If you do come then enjoy the good aspects of the job - the pilots are a great bunch and I have enjoyed flying with most guys. The route network is unparalleled and you will see the world.

Just come with eyes wide open and understand the risks.

For me - I've resigned. My health and life are not worth it any longer. While many aspects of the job are now poor I'm grateful for the time I have had the money I've save.

The risk/reward has changed.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 06:19   #74 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: FL370
Posts: 56
Saving money has nothing to do with EK or Dubai, it's relative just like it is anywhere else in the world. Do you have a wife that doesn't work, 2 kids, or no kids and a working wife etc. shop at Carrefour or spinneys. Hang out at zero gravity every weekend.

I save plenty, but that's me and I'm happy with how I do it. If you like to party all the time and lease a Porsche (take a look at the car park sometime.... No shortage of money at EK!) then that's your business.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 07:34   #75 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Behind you
Age: 70
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader View Post
Most people will spend more than Airdancer to live in Dubai. On an FO salary, if you are careful and single (or married without kids), you should have no problem saving some money. How much will depend on your hobbies.

Add children to the mix and it will change. Very young kids not in school and you will spend less than having 2 kids over the age of six who are also involved in activities.

Long upgrade times for new joiners means you should budget carefully. As a captain you can certainly save. If your wife also has a skill that is in demand - then you can save a LOT of money.

One consideration though: Like investing, your career, at least in financial terms, is a long game! Looking at myself versus the friends who stayed at 'major/legacy' airlines, in the end, they will fare far better financially. This is due to the fact that they will spend an entire career there while most EK pilots will not last to retirement. Very few pilots want to spend their entire life in Dubai, though there are a few. Going home usually means a pay cut or a job commuting with the commensurate lifestyle.

Quite simply, for most of us the draw was/is a big airplane, flying around the globe for good money. It is gratification now vs. later. I am pretty sure most of at EK know someone at home who drools at the thought of doing what we do while he tools around in a 737.

But in the long game, if our friend is at a large airline he will catch up paywise and, if he does not catch up in after tax dollars, he most certainly will when the pension is considered. 20 years of a pension is incredibly valuable and not something most consider.

I also would not consider the housing allowance at EK in any financial planning. Buying a house in Dubai is a muggs game - it may end well, it may end badly. The good times of big increases are gone and at current prices the risk is high and the fixed costs eat away the majority of the allowance.

I don't need PPRuNe to tell me how difficult it has become to live and work in Dubai for EK.
I know the punishing skeds from experience and I know the vast majority of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances want to leave or are leaving.

It is telling that guys who have been here only 2 years are extolling the virtues of the place.

In the end, as I have tried to explain to a few friends who considered coming over the years, it is a risk/reward scenario. EK and Dubai can be good provided that you manage to stay on the very narrow path. You make one wrong move in Dubai (car accident with the wrong person, have consumed alcohol and something happens in which you are not even involved but have been dragged into, are accused of wrong doing etc etc) and your once great career plan is in shambles. EK is the same - wrong place, wrong time, piss of the wrong person etc and, again, career in shambles (even more so now with their warpath mentality).

While the odds of falling off the path or slim I know several pilots who have. The risks that exist here do not exist at home (for most of us).

So, like everything in life, it is a matter of balancing risk in your decision making. Look at the long game and try (I know it's hard ) to take the big shiny airplane out of the picture (you will get there anyway just at a different point in your career).

When I came the risk/reward was worth it (in my case a bankruptcy). I was lucky in my timing. Knowing what I do at the moment I would not come now. The conditions have declined and the risk is much higher especially as EK and the region struggle financially.

If you do come then enjoy the good aspects of the job - the pilots are a great bunch and I have enjoyed flying with most guys. The route network is unparalleled and you will see the world.

Just come with eyes wide open and understand the risks.

For me - I've resigned. My health and life are not worth it any longer. While many aspects of the job are now poor I'm grateful for the time I have had the money I've save.

The risk/reward has changed.
Great post T.

It should be put as a sticker!
Those of you considering the move, should read this carefully!

MS
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 07:35   #76 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: work
Posts: 7
Cathay Pacific Have announced an end to their expat housing perks. Currently running to $hk110,000 per month , the company have stated this is unsustainable, and must be renegotiated. If no agreement is reached before the end of Dec17 , anecdotal evidence sugests is will be paid at a flat rate of commiserate with current standard contract pilots of around max $HK 30000 ish.

With EK paying AED 16000/ month for Captains, it's entirely possible that there is an influx of disgruntled ex CX pilots who will be able to buy a flat and take the hk $33500 per month offered.

Would still be a drastic pay cut for those boys though. But anger can lead to misguided decisions.

Ironically, an Ex EK skipper just joined Cathay Dragon. On local terms . At no 521 on the seniority. Just intime for the industrial unrest. Top marks.
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Old 13th Oct 2017, 18:43   #77 (permalink)


Probationary PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Earth
Posts: 2
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader View Post
Most people will spend more than Airdancer to live in Dubai. On an FO salary, if you are careful and single (or married without kids), you should have no problem saving some money. How much will depend on your hobbies.

Add children to the mix and it will change. Very young kids not in school and you will spend less than having 2 kids over the age of six who are also involved in activities.

Long upgrade times for new joiners means you should budget carefully. As a captain you can certainly save. If your wife also has a skill that is in demand - then you can save a LOT of money.

One consideration though: Like investing, your career, at least in financial terms, is a long game! Looking at myself versus the friends who stayed at 'major/legacy' airlines, in the end, they will fare far better financially. This is due to the fact that they will spend an entire career there while most EK pilots will not last to retirement. Very few pilots want to spend their entire life in Dubai, though there are a few. Going home usually means a pay cut or a job commuting with the commensurate lifestyle.

Quite simply, for most of us the draw was/is a big airplane, flying around the globe for good money. It is gratification now vs. later. I am pretty sure most of at EK know someone at home who drools at the thought of doing what we do while he tools around in a 737.

But in the long game, if our friend is at a large airline he will catch up paywise and, if he does not catch up in after tax dollars, he most certainly will when the pension is considered. 20 years of a pension is incredibly valuable and not something most consider.

I also would not consider the housing allowance at EK in any financial planning. Buying a house in Dubai is a muggs game - it may end well, it may end badly. The good times of big increases are gone and at current prices the risk is high and the fixed costs eat away the majority of the allowance.

I don't need PPRuNe to tell me how difficult it has become to live and work in Dubai for EK.
I know the punishing skeds from experience and I know the vast majority of my friends, neighbors and acquaintances want to leave or are leaving.

It is telling that guys who have been here only 2 years are extolling the virtues of the place.

In the end, as I have tried to explain to a few friends who considered coming over the years, it is a risk/reward scenario. EK and Dubai can be good provided that you manage to stay on the very narrow path. You make one wrong move in Dubai (car accident with the wrong person, have consumed alcohol and something happens in which you are not even involved but have been dragged into, are accused of wrong doing etc etc) and your once great career plan is in shambles. EK is the same - wrong place, wrong time, piss of the wrong person etc and, again, career in shambles (even more so now with their warpath mentality).

While the odds of falling off the path or slim I know several pilots who have. The risks that exist here do not exist at home (for most of us).

So, like everything in life, it is a matter of balancing risk in your decision making. Look at the long game and try (I know it's hard ) to take the big shiny airplane out of the picture (you will get there anyway just at a different point in your career).

When I came the risk/reward was worth it (in my case a bankruptcy). I was lucky in my timing. Knowing what I do at the moment I would not come now. The conditions have declined and the risk is much higher especially as EK and the region struggle financially.

If you do come then enjoy the good aspects of the job - the pilots are a great bunch and I have enjoyed flying with most guys. The route network is unparalleled and you will see the world.

Just come with eyes wide open and understand the risks.

For me - I've resigned. My health and life are not worth it any longer. While many aspects of the job are now poor I'm grateful for the time I have had the money I've save.

The risk/reward has changed.
I would like to sincerely thank You about this text. I was selected to EK and was offered a position with them in the near future. I have been back and forth about what to do; trying to compare my current future with the EK future. This is what I wanted to read and this has made my final decision easier. I also have friends in the company and I have consulted them on many occasions.

Yours
X
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 05:03   #78 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
Posts: 2,143
Everyone considering EK should read traders post at least twice , absorb what he is trying to pass on . All true!
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 06:53   #79 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dubai
Posts: 772
Trader, one of the best posts I have ever seen, well balanced and objective.
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Old 14th Oct 2017, 06:54   #80 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UAE
Age: 98
Posts: 138
Come on airdancer, how many EK pilots make their missus to catch the Dubai metro around town in summer and survive on just 14 dhs a day?! Not even allowed a coffee at Starbucks? If you're that on a budget you would have taken the allowance and rented in Deira for 40k.

I guess you guys never take holidays? Have family visit? No salary deductions? I'm only in my fourth year here and have to escape the city once a month, especially in summer. Folks visiting from the U.K. - 5k dhs on flights alone.

Last edited by Yorkshire_Pudding; 14th Oct 2017 at 08:58.
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