EK CRM post
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EK CRM post
Ek is internally looking for CRM instructors. If you are interested and apply remember that the reason there is a vacancy is because the position lost its flight pick per month. Suddenly. With no warning.
Once again EK knows how to treat its employees.
A gently warning to those wishing to come.
Once again EK knows how to treat its employees.
A gently warning to those wishing to come.
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Any preassignment for such positions is basically wrong. You want a position, there should be a renumeration for it, a big one for certain ungrateful positions.
However, in no case should the other pilots be disadvantaged in their life quality!
:
Roster advantages are a no go in my view. To enable a selected group more days off in a row, to enable them pre assigned flights does not cut it. It takes away slots for days off of the regular guy, it blocks up to half of the flights to certain home destinations.
Now if some fall back on the rather primitive lines like "if you don't like then leave", or "why don't you join the priviledged ranks", or "we do this as a service to you", then read no further. You have been "Emiratised".
Most of us just want to do a good job and get the renumeration and the days off, a decent roster and the contractual leave.
Is that asking too much?
No, i hate the divide and conquer and i hate the guys jumping on that bandwagon just as much
However, in no case should the other pilots be disadvantaged in their life quality!
:Roster advantages are a no go in my view. To enable a selected group more days off in a row, to enable them pre assigned flights does not cut it. It takes away slots for days off of the regular guy, it blocks up to half of the flights to certain home destinations.
Now if some fall back on the rather primitive lines like "if you don't like then leave", or "why don't you join the priviledged ranks", or "we do this as a service to you", then read no further. You have been "Emiratised".
Most of us just want to do a good job and get the renumeration and the days off, a decent roster and the contractual leave.
Is that asking too much?
No, i hate the divide and conquer and i hate the guys jumping on that bandwagon just as much
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Unless you're part of the fleet/management structure or have manager in your title, all roles that were previously entitled to a requested flight each month will have that privilege removed. For example, the Flight Safety managers will retain it along with Fleet Technical Pilots. CRM Instructors, CRS Bid Help team and Recruitment Pilots will not. How that will play out in the next few months will be interesting as this 'perk' was often the main incentive for fulfilling some of these voluntary duties so I suspect that some pilots may well leave these positions.
The idea behind this new system is for maximum use of automation with very little manual input. It will incorporate training and line bidding together rather than training working one month ahead via MyMint as is currently the case. Having many department offshoots with the requirement for planners to insert flight requests ahead of normal line bids would defeat that logic. The theory is that roster satisfaction should be improved for all pilots as more of the previously sought after destinations will be available as training will have far less pre allocations. However, trainers will still be able to bid for flights that are training but within the seniority of their bid group. This should be fully integrated around February 2016.
As with many introductions, there will be teething troubles. Whether the new system can benefit those that will be disadvantaged by their requested flight remains to be seen. For some, I'd imagine, it may only serve as the catalyst to resign from these important roles.
Think carefully before sending in those CV's.
Harry
The idea behind this new system is for maximum use of automation with very little manual input. It will incorporate training and line bidding together rather than training working one month ahead via MyMint as is currently the case. Having many department offshoots with the requirement for planners to insert flight requests ahead of normal line bids would defeat that logic. The theory is that roster satisfaction should be improved for all pilots as more of the previously sought after destinations will be available as training will have far less pre allocations. However, trainers will still be able to bid for flights that are training but within the seniority of their bid group. This should be fully integrated around February 2016.
As with many introductions, there will be teething troubles. Whether the new system can benefit those that will be disadvantaged by their requested flight remains to be seen. For some, I'd imagine, it may only serve as the catalyst to resign from these important roles.
Think carefully before sending in those CV's.
Harry
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Harry
Thanks for this heads up. It sort of reflects what i think should be the norm, no divide and conquer and no privileges to the few to the detriment of the many.
That is what i suspected all along. Remains to be seen how many quit and how many apply.
Basically this might send a very powerful message as to the main problem for pilots: Rostering, days off and leave.
Thanks for this heads up. It sort of reflects what i think should be the norm, no divide and conquer and no privileges to the few to the detriment of the many.
This 'perk' was often the main incentive for fulfilling some of these voluntary duties so I suspect that some pilots may well leave these positions.
Basically this might send a very powerful message as to the main problem for pilots: Rostering, days off and leave.
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Glo, really do understand your reasoning. However, some of these positions/posts put the pilots at a disadvantage bid wise. They have preassigned duties which disrupts a clean bid month. Restricted from bidding long flights like long freighters or 8 day trips if so desired. So they are actually disadvantaged in the bid system. To make up for this disadvantage, one preassigned trip was "awarded".
It was not deemed as a reward but rather compensation for not being able to bid unincombered. And as was said it's not just for the CRM guys but also other post holders except management, tech, and safety pilots.
It was not deemed as a reward but rather compensation for not being able to bid unincombered. And as was said it's not just for the CRM guys but also other post holders except management, tech, and safety pilots.
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TU, don't worry about glo, he's always had a bee in his bonnet about this topic. It only a POV thing, he wouldn't be saying if he was on the other side of the deal.
And no, I'm not saying come on over glofish. If it's not your thing, then fair enough.
And no, I'm not saying come on over glofish. If it's not your thing, then fair enough.
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TU, I can see that and in a perfect world it even makes sense. It's not that i would not like to grant such a treat to anyone giving a little more to the company than i do. It's when this particular favour is out of reach for the ordinary guy (days off strings) or when it makes it almost impossible to get home with normal bidding possibilities, because too many flights are pre assigned, that it annoys me.
As to sluggums, well, reading that you look at it as coming "over", it reminds me of a fence to cross.
EK has evidently succeeded to divide in your mind .....
As to sluggums, well, reading that you look at it as coming "over", it reminds me of a fence to cross.
EK has evidently succeeded to divide in your mind .....
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CRMI's had the facility to bid for a 5 day off string removed many years ago. Their only concession, as TU highlights, is the requested flight. Many of them, particularly those on the 330/777 will have night turns even in their top bid months due to training duties being pre allocated before they get the chance to use the CRS bid. With duties spread out, this does not afford efficient rosters so turnrounds are inserted to to achieve maximum productivity.
The new system should reduce this discrepancy......apparently.
Harry
The new system should reduce this discrepancy......apparently.
Harry
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My understanding is that when the training rosters system migrates fully into the new CRS around the beginning of next year, all trainers will bid for their duties in the same way that line pilots do. The major difference of course is that they will also have training duties to cover. There will be flights allocated for training, of which trainers only can bid. How these duties along with simulators and classroom days are displayed on the system, I've no idea, neither probably do some of the managers at this stage.
I was also told that you could bid for 5 days off in your request month then back that up with another 5 days off in preference to continue the string up to ten consecutive days. This option would be open to all pilots, both training and line and would be in the two request months only and of course dependent on any pre assignment not blocking it such as manual handling, SEP, CRM etc. Whilst that may work in principle, the reality would be impossible. I'm led to believe that B777 rosters will be really, really tight for Jan through to March, possibly April so even 5 consecutive days may be pushing it! A380 might be achievable but don't hold your breath on that either.
Historical evidence predicts plenty of FCI's, letters, emails, changes and explanations over the next few months. Oh, and probably a few tears too!
Harry
I was also told that you could bid for 5 days off in your request month then back that up with another 5 days off in preference to continue the string up to ten consecutive days. This option would be open to all pilots, both training and line and would be in the two request months only and of course dependent on any pre assignment not blocking it such as manual handling, SEP, CRM etc. Whilst that may work in principle, the reality would be impossible. I'm led to believe that B777 rosters will be really, really tight for Jan through to March, possibly April so even 5 consecutive days may be pushing it! A380 might be achievable but don't hold your breath on that either.
Historical evidence predicts plenty of FCI's, letters, emails, changes and explanations over the next few months. Oh, and probably a few tears too!
Harry
Extra duties/roles should be compensated with money, not roster. The company is being cheap and cheating the pilot group rather than fronting up with the cash.
The CRMIs and recruitment dudes work hard and do a great job. They should be appropriately paid for their long days at work.
The CRMIs and recruitment dudes work hard and do a great job. They should be appropriately paid for their long days at work.
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Don
The CRMI's are, they get payed around 4k for a 'contractual' 5 duties per month, with 1000 dhs for each additional duty over the 5. They also get credit for each day in the classroom. The training pay was for their 'skills', the flight for inconvenience of roster disruption from pre allocated flights. Recruitment pilots are slightly different in that they get paid a daily rate whilst undertaking recruitment duties, both here in Dubai and abroad. Again, their flight was an extra bonus, ironically being the first group within the Company to avail of that perk. The CRS help guys don't get paid, at least not a guaranteed fixed amount each month. They may get hour credit for the day but I can't confirm that. The flight was their main carrot so I'm not sure what incentive they'll now have for continuing.
Harry
The CRMI's are, they get payed around 4k for a 'contractual' 5 duties per month, with 1000 dhs for each additional duty over the 5. They also get credit for each day in the classroom. The training pay was for their 'skills', the flight for inconvenience of roster disruption from pre allocated flights. Recruitment pilots are slightly different in that they get paid a daily rate whilst undertaking recruitment duties, both here in Dubai and abroad. Again, their flight was an extra bonus, ironically being the first group within the Company to avail of that perk. The CRS help guys don't get paid, at least not a guaranteed fixed amount each month. They may get hour credit for the day but I can't confirm that. The flight was their main carrot so I'm not sure what incentive they'll now have for continuing.
Harry
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If you desperately need the money, or have a fragile ego which requires the boost of pedagoguery and the shoulder-star you should probably remain in training.
But if there is conscientious, petty, pointless, dicking-around with the training captain's bidding about to begin there is ZERO incentive to remain as a training captain.
Up until now, the rostering for trainers has been remarkably responsive to requests. It appears that someone has discovered that the instructors were content and of course that has to be stopped immediately.
But if there is conscientious, petty, pointless, dicking-around with the training captain's bidding about to begin there is ZERO incentive to remain as a training captain.
Up until now, the rostering for trainers has been remarkably responsive to requests. It appears that someone has discovered that the instructors were content and of course that has to be stopped immediately.
Last edited by Dropp the Pilot; 15th Oct 2015 at 17:02. Reason: extra apostrophe fee
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Really guys. Do you really think there will be an increased compensation for those that will lose this perk? No way. Ask some of these gents how their rosters have been (manually built I hear) in the last year or two. The only saving grace for many was the preferred trip that was bid in advance. I have a friend that is one of the CRM instructors and he hasn't had more than 3 days off in a row in a long time. He says his bidding has been a joke. And guess where most of his duty days are allocated when he has leave? Top or bottom bid, it makes no difference. I'll take our bidding/rostering over his any day.
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And guess what will happen here?
Pilots will accept the new norm less pay, less perks, more rubbish to put up with, etc etc, etc.
They will get there instructors, I bet you they will.
Pilots will accept the new norm less pay, less perks, more rubbish to put up with, etc etc, etc.
They will get there instructors, I bet you they will.
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Extra post holders apply for these positions that are advertised by The Company...It makes no sense to me then that it should be the pilot group that "pays" part of their remuneration. Take away roster privilages and if not enough apply then up the $$, they deserve it.
What PJ said....twice.
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Overnights
On the 330/340 there are 3, yes 3 flights worth doing as the rest are India and Africa.
LED, WAW and BUD.
Every month I bid for these yet in the past 3 years I have not been awarded them once. So when I sign for a log book to go off to another yet another India midnight turn I looooooove seeing management names filled in for these flights. I guarantee if you pulled flights for 330 managers ALL of have been to these destinations and these destinations only. Plus training flights plus 319 pilots plus CRM and it's no wonder they are all gone.
Jebus is right on the $. The reason EK does it this way is because it costs them nothing. They can substitute quality of life for cash, and simply flog the peons more. Angering. Again the little things....
LED, WAW and BUD.
Every month I bid for these yet in the past 3 years I have not been awarded them once. So when I sign for a log book to go off to another yet another India midnight turn I looooooove seeing management names filled in for these flights. I guarantee if you pulled flights for 330 managers ALL of have been to these destinations and these destinations only. Plus training flights plus 319 pilots plus CRM and it's no wonder they are all gone.
Jebus is right on the $. The reason EK does it this way is because it costs them nothing. They can substitute quality of life for cash, and simply flog the peons more. Angering. Again the little things....