Delta CEO CNN Interview About ME3
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As much as I would like to head back home and work for one of the US's Big3, I will go to bat for Emirates and the other Gulf carriers on this one. Where is this evidence of the ME3 receiving subsidies? He's making it sound like it's some kind classified information handled by the CIA. As a previous poster mentioned earlier, it's time to put up or shut up. To associate the ME3 carriers with link to the 9/11 terrorism because of their geographical location is ridiculous. And don't get me started every time this douche mispronounces Qatar as "Cutter". Seriously, bro? 
Anyone remember when $3billion was considered a reasonable amount of money? These days it seems you can even forget you have it.
Bring on the Profit Cher.
Bring on the Profit Cher.
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The ME3 carriers aren't airlines, they're governments--absolute monarchies to be more precise. Richard Quest queried Richard Anderson on the critique by those rulers that US carriers were the beneficiaries of government aid after 9-11. It is well known that even today, Qatar allows money to flow to ISIS. Source: Washington Times.
For those rulers to support terrorism which pummeled our industry, then in the wake of that, try to usurp control of the global aviation market by pouring billions into state owned enterprises which then compete with full state backing on a supposedly liberalized trade landscape is reprehensible, and illegal. The word Richard used was 'ironic'. I thought he was being soft.
If the 'apology' said anything, it was this: 'Sorry if the truth hurts.' I think nothing more is owed. I applaud him for standing his ground in the face of overwhelming financial and political pressure by the rulers of the ME3.
2 years of forensic accounting and investigations in overseas financial markets have yielded irrefutable evidence of illegal state subsidies at the ME3. The number being mentioned is 40 billion. That's more than twice what all the airlines in the whole world made last year. That evidence has already been presented to the U.S. government. The U.S. International Trade Administration, which oversees trade agreements, and enforces rules on dumped and subsidized imports into our country will be getting back to Tim and Al soon.
For those rulers to support terrorism which pummeled our industry, then in the wake of that, try to usurp control of the global aviation market by pouring billions into state owned enterprises which then compete with full state backing on a supposedly liberalized trade landscape is reprehensible, and illegal. The word Richard used was 'ironic'. I thought he was being soft.
If the 'apology' said anything, it was this: 'Sorry if the truth hurts.' I think nothing more is owed. I applaud him for standing his ground in the face of overwhelming financial and political pressure by the rulers of the ME3.
2 years of forensic accounting and investigations in overseas financial markets have yielded irrefutable evidence of illegal state subsidies at the ME3. The number being mentioned is 40 billion. That's more than twice what all the airlines in the whole world made last year. That evidence has already been presented to the U.S. government. The U.S. International Trade Administration, which oversees trade agreements, and enforces rules on dumped and subsidized imports into our country will be getting back to Tim and Al soon.
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Ok flyallniite,
Chill the beans there cowboy...too many holes to punch...too little time.
So, I'm not an EK cheerleader (anymore - used to be somewhat) BUT..
No 1....The Washington Times is a daily publication by the Moonies from S. Korea... The Washington Post - of Woodward & Bernstein .. Is , well, enough said.
"Irrefutable" ...suggests that PWC auditing is corrupt...not so.
I'm not defending my employer...but lay off the Fox News while you sip the bourbon...because you make us look stupid...and you have a lot of company...
f.
Chill the beans there cowboy...too many holes to punch...too little time.
So, I'm not an EK cheerleader (anymore - used to be somewhat) BUT..
No 1....The Washington Times is a daily publication by the Moonies from S. Korea... The Washington Post - of Woodward & Bernstein .. Is , well, enough said.
"Irrefutable" ...suggests that PWC auditing is corrupt...not so.
I'm not defending my employer...but lay off the Fox News while you sip the bourbon...because you make us look stupid...and you have a lot of company...
f.
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Flyallnight
Spot on. Tremendous post.
It completely baffles me that anyone working for any of the ME3
Can defend them....regardless of subsidies, funding etc they cannot be allowed
To expand. They operate in slave states and in the very core of their business model exploit their employees, like slaves. Why? Because they can. Do you really think that other majors which operate in countries where human rights actually exist should be forced to compete against them?
Spot on. Tremendous post.
It completely baffles me that anyone working for any of the ME3
Can defend them....regardless of subsidies, funding etc they cannot be allowed
To expand. They operate in slave states and in the very core of their business model exploit their employees, like slaves. Why? Because they can. Do you really think that other majors which operate in countries where human rights actually exist should be forced to compete against them?
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Perhaps it is time US carriers had a look at their product as well as the customer experience at their hubs? If these were improved maybe there would be little reason to search the culprit elsewhere.
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Help me here. Where were the CEOs over the last decades when many of the European carriers were wholly owned by their governments (or do I have that wrong)? Let's see, Delta has a code share agreement with Saudi, American/USAir have a code share agreement with Qatar and not sure about The other. The reek of hypocrisy permeates these CEOs and the ALPA.
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More info about the report is coming out...
Report Says Gulf Airlines Got $39B (With More to Come) in Illegal Subsidies
BY Ted Reed Follow |
02/20/15 - 08:00 AM EST |
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NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- A report compiled for the big three U.S. airlines presents a chilling picture of efforts by some Mideast governments to establish airlines funded by massive subsidies which, according to the report, have been systematically covered up in order to mask violations of Open Skies agreements that have enabled the three Gulf airlines' disproportionate growth.
The governments of Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and Abu Dhabi and Dubai, the two largest emirates, have provided about $39 billion in subsidies to the airlines -- Qatar Airways, the flag carrier of Qatar; and Etihad Airways and Emirates Airlines, flag carriers of the UAE -- according to extensively researched report, compiled over two years for American (AAL - Get Report) , Delta (DAL - Get Report) and United (UAL - Get Report) and provided to TheStreet by an airline industry source who asked not to be identified.
The Gulf governments and airlines "have created vertically-integrated, wholly state-owned aviation sectors that include monopoly service providers and complex interrelationships between their government institutions, airlines, ground handlers, airports and state-owned banks," said the report, which is titled: "Restoring Open Skies: The Need to Address Subsidized Competition From State-Owned Airlines in Qatar and the UAE."
The subsidies come in forms including cash grants, interest-free loans and favorable contracts with airports, vendors and suppliers funded and generally owned by the governments, the report said. They inevitably reflect close relationships between governments and the airlines, which are often led by the same families and the same individuals.
The $39 billion is just the start. Governments in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar all plan to build huge new airports because they believe the large airports they already have are insufficient to accommodate the growth they expect.
Dubai is spending $7.8 billion to expand capacity at Dubai International Airport to 90 million passengers annually by 2018. It plans to spend $32 billion more to build the first phase of Dubai World Central Airport, 40 miles away, which could ultimate accommodate 240 million passengers annually.
Abu Dhabi is spending $7 billion to expand capacity at its airport to an annual capacity of 50 million passengers. Qatar is spending $17 billion on Hamad International Airport, which opened in May 2014 and also will have an annual capacity of 50 million passengers.
The report represents "the first time anyone has investigated these subsidies," said an airline industry spokesperson who asked not to be named. "It took a couple of years for the report to be put together" by a team of forensic accountants and investigators.
"We've begun a discussion with the Obama administration about these subsidies and what remedies there are," the spokesperson said. "The executive branch of government has the power to take a look at this. There is a process in place under Open Skies to address subsidies."
BY Ted Reed Follow |
02/20/15 - 08:00 AM EST |
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NEW YORK ( TheStreet) -- A report compiled for the big three U.S. airlines presents a chilling picture of efforts by some Mideast governments to establish airlines funded by massive subsidies which, according to the report, have been systematically covered up in order to mask violations of Open Skies agreements that have enabled the three Gulf airlines' disproportionate growth.
The governments of Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, and Abu Dhabi and Dubai, the two largest emirates, have provided about $39 billion in subsidies to the airlines -- Qatar Airways, the flag carrier of Qatar; and Etihad Airways and Emirates Airlines, flag carriers of the UAE -- according to extensively researched report, compiled over two years for American (AAL - Get Report) , Delta (DAL - Get Report) and United (UAL - Get Report) and provided to TheStreet by an airline industry source who asked not to be identified.
The Gulf governments and airlines "have created vertically-integrated, wholly state-owned aviation sectors that include monopoly service providers and complex interrelationships between their government institutions, airlines, ground handlers, airports and state-owned banks," said the report, which is titled: "Restoring Open Skies: The Need to Address Subsidized Competition From State-Owned Airlines in Qatar and the UAE."
The subsidies come in forms including cash grants, interest-free loans and favorable contracts with airports, vendors and suppliers funded and generally owned by the governments, the report said. They inevitably reflect close relationships between governments and the airlines, which are often led by the same families and the same individuals.
The $39 billion is just the start. Governments in Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar all plan to build huge new airports because they believe the large airports they already have are insufficient to accommodate the growth they expect.
Dubai is spending $7.8 billion to expand capacity at Dubai International Airport to 90 million passengers annually by 2018. It plans to spend $32 billion more to build the first phase of Dubai World Central Airport, 40 miles away, which could ultimate accommodate 240 million passengers annually.
Abu Dhabi is spending $7 billion to expand capacity at its airport to an annual capacity of 50 million passengers. Qatar is spending $17 billion on Hamad International Airport, which opened in May 2014 and also will have an annual capacity of 50 million passengers.
The report represents "the first time anyone has investigated these subsidies," said an airline industry spokesperson who asked not to be named. "It took a couple of years for the report to be put together" by a team of forensic accountants and investigators.
"We've begun a discussion with the Obama administration about these subsidies and what remedies there are," the spokesperson said. "The executive branch of government has the power to take a look at this. There is a process in place under Open Skies to address subsidies."
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Hmmm, so it took their team of forensic accountants 2 years to produce a chilling report that contains the shocking revelations that Dubai is building big airports......... What did they do, catch an episode of Ultimate Airport Dubai on Discovery Channel?
I'd want a refund!
I'd want a refund!
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So, should all US and EU carriers be shut down because they don't pay all the costs of developing airports they don't own? The Delta argument is hysterical and hypocritical in equal measure and reflects very badly on US attitudes towards the rest of the world - every time they don't have massive legislative advantage, they throw around all sorts of accusations until the US authorities tilt the playing field to a ridiculous degree. It doesn't matter if it's aviation, defence, food, cars or even entertainment. Thankfully, not all Americans buy into the propaganda, as displayed here.
All countries will want to support their own industries over foreign, and so they should, but there are limits to what is reasonable or even rational.
All countries will want to support their own industries over foreign, and so they should, but there are limits to what is reasonable or even rational.
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The US Majors are starting to lose considerable market share to the Big 3 Gulf carriers due to their rapid expansion and better inflight service. This will have a big impact in their ability to compete internationally.
US Airlines Losing Market Share To Gulf Carriers
US Airlines Losing Market Share To Gulf Carriers
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Of course the feigned indignation of the ME execs is laughable, considering they know full well what is going on. And I can't blame their employees for turning a blind eye either, after all, they are banking on taking away jobs from everyone else.
Just ask the Australians where their airline industry went. Is it because Quanta's service was terrible? No, it's because the rulers of the ME3 are pouring money in illegal subsidies into an all out effort to grab market share by dumping their product on the global market. The Aussie government didn't take action and now it's too late. I just hope we don't make the same mistake here in the USA.
Tim, Al, and others, I don't blame you in the least for defending your enterprises, that's what I'd expect. Just please, spare me the fake outrage when someone dares shine a light on your scheme.
Just ask the Australians where their airline industry went. Is it because Quanta's service was terrible? No, it's because the rulers of the ME3 are pouring money in illegal subsidies into an all out effort to grab market share by dumping their product on the global market. The Aussie government didn't take action and now it's too late. I just hope we don't make the same mistake here in the USA.
Tim, Al, and others, I don't blame you in the least for defending your enterprises, that's what I'd expect. Just please, spare me the fake outrage when someone dares shine a light on your scheme.
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Panther88, I'm glad you asked. Decades ago, our governments were negotiating Open Skies treaties with the nations who had wholly owned airlines. As part of those agreements, divestiture and transparency were mandated. As were limits on direct government subsidies. Which brings us to the issue with the ME3 carriers, who it is alleged have received direct aid and subsidies from their respective overlords, in eye watering amounts. You just can't do that. If it were AF or BA, you'd hear the same complaints. Why can't these companies just compete on the quality of their product if it's so great?
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Tim Clark uses the geopolitical card..( UAE long time allied of the US ) he his in troubles. We are talking of a "country" where the "sheik" uncle of the "ruler" is president of an airline and at the same time president of the civil aviation authority. A country where human and workers rights are not granted .Time to stop this absurdity, time to stop exploitation, time to stop the Middle Age from conquering aviation.