HDG Reference
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2009
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From: Up in Sky
HDG Reference
Any one can comment on using TRUE & NORM HDG REF switch while flying MNPS NAT ?
I looked so many books and references, but could not find any.
One thing I know, No need to switch to TRUE as long as there is an IRS, GPS....!
Thanks
I looked so many books and references, but could not find any.
One thing I know, No need to switch to TRUE as long as there is an IRS, GPS....!
Thanks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 322
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From: Dubai
EK's procedure is to leave it to switch automatically in and out of TRU. Leave it in automatic unless you have to use HDG or TRK select; in which case you'll get an EICAS message AUTOPILOT and an amber line thru "HDG/TRK" on the FMA unless you manually select TRU.
Can't speak for other airlines but I assume that's a Boeing procedure?
Can't speak for other airlines but I assume that's a Boeing procedure?
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 450
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From: BC
HDG Ref
Can't speak of operator's procedures however; the switch normally is left alone and the FMC decides when it wants to switch. I've flown polar with the aircraft more times than I care to think and we never touched it. There is no requirement to touch it on the NATS either.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 398
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From: Seoul/Gold Coast.....
Can be useful in the pre-flight stage checking True Tracks and Distances on the FMC legs pages against the flight plan True Tracks, also airborne with amended clearances in the NATS System it pays to check True Tracks and Distances against the published charted ones…if it agrees, you are on the correct cleared route.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 887
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From: Location, Location
How would you set TRUE TRACK on the MCP?
However, if you are - just switch the HDG REF switch to TRUE and use TRK SEL as normal to fly a true track.
I don't fly the NAT tracks all that often but are any of them actually within the polar window?
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 450
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From: BC
True...
Yup, if inside the keyhole and in True with LNAV engaged, the only way to select True on the MCP is to select True on Hdg. Ref. In all of the polar operations that I conducted, I actually never had to use select anything on the MCP as we let LNAV carry us along track. The tracks in northern Canada enroute to Russia are straight and there wasn't any reason to do any deviations. There isn't any weather up there to worry about. The Northern Lights were always a treat!
If someone else has experience, I'm all ears.
Thx and safe flight!
If someone else has experience, I'm all ears.
Thx and safe flight!
Joined: Sep 1998
Posts: 40
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From: Dubai ,U.A.E.
Sand hound, there is nothing like a stimulating intelligent post, and yours is nothing like a stimulating intelligent post.
I would love to get into a battle of wits with you but it would be unfair to take on an unarmed man.
DD
I would love to get into a battle of wits with you but it would be unfair to take on an unarmed man.
DD
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 871
Likes: 41
From: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
Sandhound's just mad because pretty much the opposite of what he states is true. Turns out the lack of freight on the 380 is a bigger factor than most considered (LAX is often mentioned) and of course, the usual Airbus penchant of over-promising, under-delivering. In this case, with regards to fuel burns. Fortunately oil prices continue to slump. So the camouflage can continue for awhile.
But I wonder why other airlines continue to cancel orders? Guess they just aren't as smart as Sir Timbit, World's Biggest 380 Fan. (He has the t-shirt).
So keep dissing the mighty 777, while it's 20 year old design continues to just quietly get the job done of making money, and they recruit "tractor drivers" onto the "flagship" because their own FO's (*cough Sandhound cough*) apparently just aren't quite up to the task...lol Of course, that's the "tractor drivers" who haven't already taken off for contract work, an option not open to the "flagship" drivers, although many sure showed up at the recruiting roadshows!
Latest rumour to get a dusting-off....747-8's. Again. You heard it here first.
oh yeah, and Ebola is bad. Bad Ebola.
But I wonder why other airlines continue to cancel orders? Guess they just aren't as smart as Sir Timbit, World's Biggest 380 Fan. (He has the t-shirt).
So keep dissing the mighty 777, while it's 20 year old design continues to just quietly get the job done of making money, and they recruit "tractor drivers" onto the "flagship" because their own FO's (*cough Sandhound cough*) apparently just aren't quite up to the task...lol Of course, that's the "tractor drivers" who haven't already taken off for contract work, an option not open to the "flagship" drivers, although many sure showed up at the recruiting roadshows!
Latest rumour to get a dusting-off....747-8's. Again. You heard it here first.
oh yeah, and Ebola is bad. Bad Ebola.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Likes: 2
From: nowhere
Can be useful in the pre-flight stage checking True Tracks and Distances on the FMC legs pages against the flight plan True Tracks, also airborne with amended clearances in the NATS System it pays to check True Tracks and Distances against the published charted ones…if it agrees, you are on the correct cleared route.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 871
Likes: 41
From: Post-Pit and Lovin' It.
sandy,
HAHAHA! If you're gonna try and troll, at least try and be credible. As if anyone can take you seriously. The bottom line is no one gets paid one fil more on one fleet than the other. I'd say hard money shows the TRUE value the company assigns the "flag!!!!" more than any other factor. Taking the same money for more work doesn't suggest the highest IQ, after all. But if you need to feel better about yourself, that's cool. Lots of other short guys on your fleet to keep you company, don't worry.
But don't get too excited by new destinations, they've ordered 90 so they have no choice but to send it somewhere. Fact of life when you've gone all in. As a gambler I admire the commitment. Too bad no other airline seems to share it.
As I said, enjoy your comfy seats - most of the "JD" drivers who wanted to have, or are leaving. An option you don't have.
Sorry.
"according to TC" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Good one.
HAHAHA! If you're gonna try and troll, at least try and be credible. As if anyone can take you seriously. The bottom line is no one gets paid one fil more on one fleet than the other. I'd say hard money shows the TRUE value the company assigns the "flag!!!!" more than any other factor. Taking the same money for more work doesn't suggest the highest IQ, after all. But if you need to feel better about yourself, that's cool. Lots of other short guys on your fleet to keep you company, don't worry.
But don't get too excited by new destinations, they've ordered 90 so they have no choice but to send it somewhere. Fact of life when you've gone all in. As a gambler I admire the commitment. Too bad no other airline seems to share it.
As I said, enjoy your comfy seats - most of the "JD" drivers who wanted to have, or are leaving. An option you don't have.
Sorry.
"according to TC" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Good one.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 71
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From: Eish & Izent
Flagship vs JD cargo
Sandhound....
A quick visit to EK SkyCargo provides these figures:
B777-300ER
23t of cargo + full pax (364 in 3 class)
8 PMC (big) + 20 AKE (little)
Cargo volume varies between 125-132 cubic metres
Our Fleet - Boeing 777-300ER - Emirates SkyCargo
A380-800
8t of cargo + full pax (489 in 3 class)
6 PMC (big) + 22 AKE (little)
Cargo volume 50 cubic metres
Our Fleet - Airbus 380-800 - Emirates SkyCargo
So, which pays more? Pax or freight?
I think we both know the answer to that question.
And how much less freight does the FS carry compared to the JD?
You're a smart guy..... ask the guy sitting next to you... in that comfortable "money-making" seat.
Enjoy your FS... SH
A quick visit to EK SkyCargo provides these figures:
B777-300ER
23t of cargo + full pax (364 in 3 class)
8 PMC (big) + 20 AKE (little)
Cargo volume varies between 125-132 cubic metres
Our Fleet - Boeing 777-300ER - Emirates SkyCargo
A380-800
8t of cargo + full pax (489 in 3 class)
6 PMC (big) + 22 AKE (little)
Cargo volume 50 cubic metres
Our Fleet - Airbus 380-800 - Emirates SkyCargo
So, which pays more? Pax or freight?
I think we both know the answer to that question.
And how much less freight does the FS carry compared to the JD?
You're a smart guy..... ask the guy sitting next to you... in that comfortable "money-making" seat.
Enjoy your FS... SH
Last edited by Bartholomew; 17th October 2014 at 20:26. Reason: added pax numbers
Joined: Mar 1999
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From: Dubayy
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 3,118
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From: overthere
Bartholomow,
If we had an aeroplane that had, let's say 354 seats in it, and it's payload available weight is limited to 42-47t because of takeoff weight and time of year(14hr flight). How much of that 20t of freight will it carry? Remembering, pax weight on load sheet does not include bag weight.
Let's say another aircraft has 489 seats and can carry 66t on that same 14hr flight, all year round, how much cargo can it carry?
If cargo makes so much more money than PAX, why do we squeeze 10 across in Y and 7 across in J on the 777? Wouldn't it make more money carrying 300 pax in more comfort like CX does, and more cargo?
It is a shame that the use of true heading can still be the cause of concern after almost two decades of operation in the company.
The don
If we had an aeroplane that had, let's say 354 seats in it, and it's payload available weight is limited to 42-47t because of takeoff weight and time of year(14hr flight). How much of that 20t of freight will it carry? Remembering, pax weight on load sheet does not include bag weight.
Let's say another aircraft has 489 seats and can carry 66t on that same 14hr flight, all year round, how much cargo can it carry?
If cargo makes so much more money than PAX, why do we squeeze 10 across in Y and 7 across in J on the 777? Wouldn't it make more money carrying 300 pax in more comfort like CX does, and more cargo?
It is a shame that the use of true heading can still be the cause of concern after almost two decades of operation in the company.
The don
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 313
Likes: 108
From: Doomadgee
Dropp,
Looks like Don has countered the argument quite definitively.
Anecdotally, I and other staff have been left behind in Adelaide and Brisbane, because the freight took up seat space because of AUW issues. That has never happened on the 380 ex Australia.
(PS I'm not on the 380)
Looks like Don has countered the argument quite definitively.
Anecdotally, I and other staff have been left behind in Adelaide and Brisbane, because the freight took up seat space because of AUW issues. That has never happened on the 380 ex Australia.
(PS I'm not on the 380)
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 78
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From: Fatigue Recovery Clinic
Awful thread drift. It was a good professional adult discussion in fact. Soundhound, maybe it's time to grow up and start posting something more intelligent. If you are a professional pilot, act just like one.