OTP
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 181
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From: Hiding in the bushes.
OTP
Here we go, according to our illustrious leader, we must now arrive not earlier than STA -15, so no point in pushing to get away early from an outstation or achieving efficient shortcuts etc. Watch out for naming and shaming of those who depart late or arrive early. We can't win!
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,098
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From: earth
It certainly makes sense, on a micromanagement's scale. Dubai however, contrarely to the belief of many EK managers, is not the centre of the universe.
With the airway structure over Turkey, Iran, Oman, Pakistan and India it will be ever more painful if the users vary their speed according to Alan and other micromanagers.
The fatties go 84-.85, the tractor .83-.85, the 330/340 .81-.83 and then the 320/737 crawling at .76-.80, each and everone following religiously his CI ..... A nightmare for controllers.
I remember the early times on the Siberian route when the two airways were strictly .84 and the other .81. It worked!
Maybe this might alleviate a lot of babbling and squabbling if over Iran (Iraq) and over the Arabian Sea there would be Mach assigned airways.
The local airport management should stay local and not be spread over continents, affecting almost all participants.
I agree, we should not moan for any prowess coming out of the pink palace, but we can still discuss it and add our pov.
With the airway structure over Turkey, Iran, Oman, Pakistan and India it will be ever more painful if the users vary their speed according to Alan and other micromanagers.
The fatties go 84-.85, the tractor .83-.85, the 330/340 .81-.83 and then the 320/737 crawling at .76-.80, each and everone following religiously his CI ..... A nightmare for controllers.
I remember the early times on the Siberian route when the two airways were strictly .84 and the other .81. It worked!
Maybe this might alleviate a lot of babbling and squabbling if over Iran (Iraq) and over the Arabian Sea there would be Mach assigned airways.
The local airport management should stay local and not be spread over continents, affecting almost all participants.
I agree, we should not moan for any prowess coming out of the pink palace, but we can still discuss it and add our pov.
Last edited by glofish; 6th October 2014 at 04:47. Reason: Grammar
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 219
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From: Far and Height
Once again the pilots are responsible,and have to take corrective actions to compensate the lack of professionalism of big brains upstairs.
Slowing down to loose 15mn or more? What about the guys in trail? They as well as ATC don't care about the DXB local issues!
Why doesn't the company simply produce adequate schedules accordingly based on seasonal datas???
Slowing down to loose 15mn or more? What about the guys in trail? They as well as ATC don't care about the DXB local issues!
Why doesn't the company simply produce adequate schedules accordingly based on seasonal datas???
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,523
Likes: 61
BLOGGSON
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: Hiding in the bushes.
Posts: 127
Since when were YOU the arbiter of what can or cannot be complained about?
Join Date: Jul 1998
Location: Hiding in the bushes.
Posts: 127
Since when were YOU the arbiter of what can or cannot be complained about?
Thank you!
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 313
Likes: 108
From: Doomadgee
MANA- I am sure you will work it out.
What I got from it was that those who assign the block times have a "difficult" job.
There are simply too many variables at play to assure you will get in on blocks on time. Isn't it better to sit on the ground in some remote bay for 15mins with one engine shut down than, burning more fuel and spending more time in the air?
What I got from it was that those who assign the block times have a "difficult" job.
There are simply too many variables at play to assure you will get in on blocks on time. Isn't it better to sit on the ground in some remote bay for 15mins with one engine shut down than, burning more fuel and spending more time in the air?
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 683
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From: Earth
"Ahhhh no thanks arrivals...we'd like 4 more laps around the hold please
"
Jesus wept, you'd think they could manage to produce sensible block times. In a month from now there will be an email bemoaning our Outstation OTP
"Jesus wept, you'd think they could manage to produce sensible block times. In a month from now there will be an email bemoaning our Outstation OTP
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 85
From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
It's for a small number of flights which have a history of arriving very early and causing gate assignment problems when they do, and we are being asked to do our job in helping the efficiency of the overall operation.
What a stupid thing to complain about.
What a stupid thing to complain about.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 683
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From: Earth
Wiz, I'm assuming that as you are a trainer you will have completed the latest CRM bumph which included a good little exercise and info session with our flight planners. My response is not to complain but to express my incredulity at the seeming lack of left hand/right hand co-ordination that the aforementioned email implies. Far be it for someone to question the higher ups on their individual brilliance, commercial savvy and general big picture status, however, doing our best to help the efficiency of the operation would also surely include a critical summation? or are we now to be discouraged from being "resilient?"
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 1998
Posts: 181
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From: Hiding in the bushes.
What is it with the Australian contingent? If they disagree with your post, their first response is to fling a rude remark at you. It's not stupid. They want us to arrive on schedule for ALL flights; it says so in the closing sentence of his email. Maybe in Oz it's considered OK to sit fat dumb and happy until someone tells you you can go. Personally I prefer to chivvy them on for an early departure, and in most cases, when the usual incompetence doesn't prevail, it works.
short flights long nights
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 4,018
Likes: 327
Ok, so for example, the other day I departed an out station 5 minutes early. Flying at planned CI, and the flight planned route, we landed 45 minutes early. This was due to strong tailwinds enroute and ATC giving us a vector to the ILS direct from Bubin. What should I do now? Say 'no thanks, I will just stay in the hold and burn fuel for 40 minutes'?
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 56
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From: Melbourne
Really guys? Really...
If you're able to read this much stupidity into a quite reasonable (in my humble opinion) email, it's sad.
The intent was obviously for us to hold at the gate till departure time instead of departing early and thus not exacerbate the problem. If slowing down enroute is possible - fine. If not - fine!
Simple really.
This is called managing, and is what we should expect our manager to do.
BOF
If you're able to read this much stupidity into a quite reasonable (in my humble opinion) email, it's sad.
The intent was obviously for us to hold at the gate till departure time instead of departing early and thus not exacerbate the problem. If slowing down enroute is possible - fine. If not - fine!
Simple really.
This is called managing, and is what we should expect our manager to do.
BOF
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 125
Likes: 6
From: Pub
There are just far too many variables involved for the flight crew to predict accurately the eta prior to being airborne. I tooka look at Flightradar historical arrival times for various routes over the past week and there was no pattern to many flights arrival times. Even when arriving into Dubai there may be straight in approaches, long STARs or holding. One would look a bit stupid having held at gate prior to departure only to be delayed at arrival. Surely it is better to have all pax on the ground, particularly as there are so many in transit, than to have them en-route & jeopardise connections. If the allocated gate is occupied, a bus from a remote gate would have the time to deposit them at the terminal close to scheduled arrival time. I can see this one backfiring soon, and a hasty notam to disregard will probably follow.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 1
From: earth


Does AS know?
Shows how futile skippers influence out of departure airports can get.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ AIRPORT ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1A3232/14
VALID: 1410070430 - 1410071100
FULLY AUTOMATIC AIRPORT COLLABORATIVE DECISION MAKING (A-CDM)DATA
EXCHANGE WITH THE NETWORK MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS CENTRE (NMOC)IS
BEING TESTED DURING THESE TIMES. THIS DATA TRANSFER ENABLES HIGHLY
ACCURATE EARLY PREDICTIONS OF DEPARTURE TIMES TO BE COMMUNICATED
TO
NMOC AND ALLOWS FOR MORE ACCURATE AND EFFICIENT CALCULATED TAKE
OFF
TIME (CTOT) CALCULATIONS BASED UPON TARGET OFF BLOCKS TIME (TOBT)
INFORMATION SUPPLIED FOR EACH DEPARTING FLIGHT BY GROUND HANDLING
COMPANIES.
1A3232/14
VALID: 1410070430 - 1410071100
FULLY AUTOMATIC AIRPORT COLLABORATIVE DECISION MAKING (A-CDM)DATA
EXCHANGE WITH THE NETWORK MANAGEMENT OPERATIONS CENTRE (NMOC)IS
BEING TESTED DURING THESE TIMES. THIS DATA TRANSFER ENABLES HIGHLY
ACCURATE EARLY PREDICTIONS OF DEPARTURE TIMES TO BE COMMUNICATED
TO
NMOC AND ALLOWS FOR MORE ACCURATE AND EFFICIENT CALCULATED TAKE
OFF
TIME (CTOT) CALCULATIONS BASED UPON TARGET OFF BLOCKS TIME (TOBT)
INFORMATION SUPPLIED FOR EACH DEPARTING FLIGHT BY GROUND HANDLING
COMPANIES.
Shows how futile skippers influence out of departure airports can get.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,098
Likes: 1
From: earth
MAFP: Your name says it all .....
What triggered your fury? The closeness from LGW?
Who the **** wastes time here?? Who needs a life??
At least we go with the thread and discussion, you're just whining.
What triggered your fury? The closeness from LGW?
Who the **** wastes time here?? Who needs a life??
At least we go with the thread and discussion, you're just whining.
Last edited by glofish; 6th October 2014 at 20:28.