Horrible roster Again and no leave !!!!
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Monrovia / Liberia
Age: 63
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Fwiw, whilst being an admittedly very high bid FZ Captain, my schedule (following some thoughtful bidding) through to the end of October looks as follows:
24/09 - RestDay
25/09 - DayOff
26/09 - Afternoon Flight (medium)
27/09 - DayOff
28/09 - DayOff
29/09 - DayOff
30/09 - DayOff
-----------------
01/10 - DayOff
02/10 - DayOff
03/10 - DayOff
04/10 - DayOff
05/10 - DayOff
06/10 - Day Flight (long)
07/10 - DayOff
08/10 - Day Flight (long)
09/10 - DayOff
10/10 - DayOff
11/10 - Day Flight (long)
12/10 - DayOff
13/10 - DayOff
14/10 - DayOff
15/10 - DayOff
16/10 - DayOff
17/10 - Day Flight (long)
18/10 - Afternoon Flight (medium)
19/10 - RestDay
20/10 - Day Flight (medium)
21/10 - DayOff
22/10 - Day Flight (medium)
23/10 - DayOff
24/10 - Day Flight (medium)
25/10 - DayOff
26/10 - DayOff
27/10 - DayOff
28/10 - DayOff
29/10 - Leave (2 weeks; to be followed by 4x 'Requested DayOff')
With one exception (flight on 24/10) I got everything that I bid for. Plus that I get to sleep every night in my own bed, and have zero jet lag!
This time last year, Big JimV & KennyG (our FltOps VP's over at FZ) saw a problem coming and headed it off at the pass, with implementation of with PBS!
24/09 - RestDay
25/09 - DayOff
26/09 - Afternoon Flight (medium)
27/09 - DayOff
28/09 - DayOff
29/09 - DayOff
30/09 - DayOff
-----------------
01/10 - DayOff
02/10 - DayOff
03/10 - DayOff
04/10 - DayOff
05/10 - DayOff
06/10 - Day Flight (long)
07/10 - DayOff
08/10 - Day Flight (long)
09/10 - DayOff
10/10 - DayOff
11/10 - Day Flight (long)
12/10 - DayOff
13/10 - DayOff
14/10 - DayOff
15/10 - DayOff
16/10 - DayOff
17/10 - Day Flight (long)
18/10 - Afternoon Flight (medium)
19/10 - RestDay
20/10 - Day Flight (medium)
21/10 - DayOff
22/10 - Day Flight (medium)
23/10 - DayOff
24/10 - Day Flight (medium)
25/10 - DayOff
26/10 - DayOff
27/10 - DayOff
28/10 - DayOff
29/10 - Leave (2 weeks; to be followed by 4x 'Requested DayOff')
With one exception (flight on 24/10) I got everything that I bid for. Plus that I get to sleep every night in my own bed, and have zero jet lag!
This time last year, Big JimV & KennyG (our FltOps VP's over at FZ) saw a problem coming and headed it off at the pass, with implementation of with PBS!
Last edited by Old King Coal; 24th Sep 2014 at 14:55. Reason: typo
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Where I work, if I don't go to work, somebody else will have to.
If I don't do any night flights, somebody else will have to fly them.
I wonder if FZ have solved anything for the majority of the pilots, or just helped a few?
Time will tell.
If I don't do any night flights, somebody else will have to fly them.
I wonder if FZ have solved anything for the majority of the pilots, or just helped a few?
Time will tell.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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I received nothing I bid for this month and didn't appreciate the manual insertions either but 20 minutes and three swap requests later I've offloaded the manuals and now have almost everything I bid for and the bonus of a few extra days off.
OKC, Nice schedule! If you took 3 flights off your roster it would match a 380 FO's. I've a few FZ golf buddies in the top 20. How come they are always flying and n/a for golf?
OKC, Nice schedule! If you took 3 flights off your roster it would match a 380 FO's. I've a few FZ golf buddies in the top 20. How come they are always flying and n/a for golf?
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Sure doesn't look like the FZ schedules I heard all about for many years. Appears to be less than 70 hours. I can't imagine FZ management continuing to allow this type of sched for a low cost company. Nice though.
Join Date: Aug 2000
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Saltaire: fwiw, FZ's no longer being marketed as 'low cost' per se, wherein for quite some time now (i.e. well over a year, and certainly since the introduction of seat-back IFE and 'Business Class') the airline has been endeavouring to morph itself into a something else (e.g. a 'good value' airline, or some such)?!
Wrt FZ pilot's flying hours, the AIMS system - as configured within FZ - typically plans to have us achieving 860'ish block hours on a rolling year (that statement being based upon my prior +5 years with FZ), which - with a 10.5 month flying year (what with holiday, sim, ground school, et al) - you can do the math.... and albeit that seasonal ebbs & flows (and having routes that exist in volatile parts of the world) can therein cause ebbs & flows in the monthly hours achieved by its pilots, but it all somewhat evens out... and rest assured that AIMS & Crewing ensure that ALL the flights do get covered!
I should perhaps add that, for the month of October, my currently rostered block hours total is 75 hours and, had I not been taking leave at the end of the month, then just one more long flight would put me just outside of FZ's planned hours for each calendar month, and also perilously close to going out of hours for the FTL annual 900 hour limit.
Wrt FZ pilot's flying hours, the AIMS system - as configured within FZ - typically plans to have us achieving 860'ish block hours on a rolling year (that statement being based upon my prior +5 years with FZ), which - with a 10.5 month flying year (what with holiday, sim, ground school, et al) - you can do the math.... and albeit that seasonal ebbs & flows (and having routes that exist in volatile parts of the world) can therein cause ebbs & flows in the monthly hours achieved by its pilots, but it all somewhat evens out... and rest assured that AIMS & Crewing ensure that ALL the flights do get covered!
I should perhaps add that, for the month of October, my currently rostered block hours total is 75 hours and, had I not been taking leave at the end of the month, then just one more long flight would put me just outside of FZ's planned hours for each calendar month, and also perilously close to going out of hours for the FTL annual 900 hour limit.
Last edited by Old King Coal; 24th Sep 2014 at 16:50.
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SKF
I'm amazed by how many guys don't know they can call in sick-fatigued. EK has a responsibility to roster us properly to be rested for our flights. Our professional responsibility as aviators is to remove ourselves when we are not "fit" for duty.
How do you know if you are "fit" for duty? Very simple, it's 2 questions if you want to dumb it down. 1. Can you pass your medical exam when you report for your flight? 2. Are you adequately prepared to have an absolute catastrophe on board and rested enough to deal with it efficiently and safely... Because you will be judged if something DOES happen, and "I was really tired" isn't an excuse if you make a mistake. In the worst case scenario, if you don't survive and fatigue was found to be a contributing factor... Do you think the company will take the blame or YOU will be to blame for showing up to work tired?
Most people are scared to call in fatigued. It seems the company sees it can get away with pushing people harder and harder, until enough is enough.
With 92 hrs/month I can't forecast that I'll be fatigued, but I'll be paying attention to the symptoms and will happily call when/if the time comes. Me, for one, I'm more afraid of losing my health and sanity then losing a job with heavily decreasing benefits and pay.
One more thing. I had my AME tell me when I got my GCAA medical that they meet with the company every month to discuss the fatigue issue. If people just call sick and not sick fatigued (SKF) it can't be monitored. If a trend is picked up on, it will be noticed, however it may take a few months. It seems most guys complain about working too much/time zone changes/night flights, but only a MINORITY call in SKF.
Just my 2 cents, fly safe everyone
CC
How do you know if you are "fit" for duty? Very simple, it's 2 questions if you want to dumb it down. 1. Can you pass your medical exam when you report for your flight? 2. Are you adequately prepared to have an absolute catastrophe on board and rested enough to deal with it efficiently and safely... Because you will be judged if something DOES happen, and "I was really tired" isn't an excuse if you make a mistake. In the worst case scenario, if you don't survive and fatigue was found to be a contributing factor... Do you think the company will take the blame or YOU will be to blame for showing up to work tired?
Most people are scared to call in fatigued. It seems the company sees it can get away with pushing people harder and harder, until enough is enough.
With 92 hrs/month I can't forecast that I'll be fatigued, but I'll be paying attention to the symptoms and will happily call when/if the time comes. Me, for one, I'm more afraid of losing my health and sanity then losing a job with heavily decreasing benefits and pay.
One more thing. I had my AME tell me when I got my GCAA medical that they meet with the company every month to discuss the fatigue issue. If people just call sick and not sick fatigued (SKF) it can't be monitored. If a trend is picked up on, it will be noticed, however it may take a few months. It seems most guys complain about working too much/time zone changes/night flights, but only a MINORITY call in SKF.
Just my 2 cents, fly safe everyone
CC
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Does anyone believe that the rosters have increased up to 93 hours a month because EK are short of crew. Or do you think this will be the standard roster as time goes on??
I'm contemplating accepting a position with Ek and trying to imagine how you guys feel, being jet lagged and tired all the time!
How does living in one of these rosters feel?
Thanks in advance for the info!
I'm contemplating accepting a position with Ek and trying to imagine how you guys feel, being jet lagged and tired all the time!
How does living in one of these rosters feel?
Thanks in advance for the info!
short flights long nights
The rosters have been 92 hours a month for several years now. That is the target, nothing to do with a shortage, it's what they expect you to fly, and it ain't going to go away.
If you want to know how it feels, run yourself over with a truck a few times!
And remember, in between the flying and recovering, you are meant to fit a life in as well!
If you want to know how it feels, run yourself over with a truck a few times!
And remember, in between the flying and recovering, you are meant to fit a life in as well!
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Relentless
1013, I can speak for the 330/340 fleet. It is constant 8-10 days off and 85-92 hours. Equal number of flights on the back of the clock as the front. 5 years ago AS told us it would improve, it's gotten worse. Plus we go to several airports where they shoot at airplanes. I flew with two FO's last month who came from two different LCC's both are returning to these. If it was one or two months a year on bottom bid, you could cope, but you are never allowed to recover since its every month. At least 1/3 of your off days are single days, and do little for your rest. During your off days for 4 months of the year you will be studying for PPC's or handling sims. Handling sims require a half day to day of study, the PPC's have several modules you must complete online plus the 4 - 10 days of bookwork depending on the individual. If you are single its a lot easier to cope with this schedule. But my recent single LCC FO's preferred their old life, and went home. If you are entering onto the 330 I would not come, however if you are entering on the 777 and are not concerned about command and single, and out of work, I would consider it. All of the last part is IMHO.
Last edited by CamelRustler; 27th Sep 2014 at 11:30. Reason: needed more commas
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Thank you very Much SOPS and Camel Rustler for you views and taking the time to give your opinion. It's greatly appreciated.
I get the impression EK rent your life an licence off you. For some , this may be a good move depending on what you have left behind . For others it may not work for them.
I get the impression EK rent your life an licence off you. For some , this may be a good move depending on what you have left behind . For others it may not work for them.
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CamelRustler
Although I do not disagree that workload on the 330/340 fleet is high and same can be said for B777 guys too on 92 hours a month, I'm not sure about your study time calculations.
4-10 days of bookwork. Ok, will concede that as definitely down to the individual, but half to full day for the handling sim? Why? The instructor briefs you on the exercises, there's nothing to be tested on other than to turn up and fly the bloody plane. The biggest decision you'll ever make that day is which pair goes first.
The clue is in the title. Handling sim.
Harry
Although I do not disagree that workload on the 330/340 fleet is high and same can be said for B777 guys too on 92 hours a month, I'm not sure about your study time calculations.
4-10 days of bookwork. Ok, will concede that as definitely down to the individual, but half to full day for the handling sim? Why? The instructor briefs you on the exercises, there's nothing to be tested on other than to turn up and fly the bloody plane. The biggest decision you'll ever make that day is which pair goes first.
The clue is in the title. Handling sim.
Harry
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Perhaps but..
HTC, The handling sim does have prep work on the Distance Learning and this time there was a 143 page document recommended as reading in Getting to Grips. Plus required OMA FCOM and FCTM review work. I feel 4 hours prep time adequate as there are points of discussion on the prebrief you are expected to know. However, I will concede, unlike most EK pilots, almost all the stuff I study gets washed away quickly and hence I do have to review more. (And no I did not read all 143 pages.) XULU - My point was the 8 days is gross, not net. Also, yes, in fact the last 3 airlines I worked for had required (paid) days for study of the required material prior to every PPC. Maybe a union thing or perhaps its cultural. But I do not think 2 additional days off prior to a PPC is unreasonable. Now I don't get paid time in the bunk or nice quiet layovers to study so perhaps I am a bit cynical. 
Either way we could all agree 8 days off a month, every month, is brutal.
Either way we could all agree 8 days off a month, every month, is brutal.
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Harry,
Whilst no one is denying that the 777 guys do fly 92 hrs (and it's not easy!!) ... there is NO WAY that the flying can be compared to that of the 330/340.
The 330 guys do 12-15 takeoff/landings per month...compared to the 777's 5-6. This involves briefings and re-briefings...over and over again.day after day after day.
There is no augmenting at all on the 330 fleet...so the 85+ hours are all conducted whilst sitting in the flight deck....no CRC for the 330.
I could go on and on...All fleets fly hard here in EK, however, it is difficult to even attempt to compare the 330/340 fleet to any other at EK.
The 330/340 is the bastard stepchild.....
Whilst no one is denying that the 777 guys do fly 92 hrs (and it's not easy!!) ... there is NO WAY that the flying can be compared to that of the 330/340.
The 330 guys do 12-15 takeoff/landings per month...compared to the 777's 5-6. This involves briefings and re-briefings...over and over again.day after day after day.
There is no augmenting at all on the 330 fleet...so the 85+ hours are all conducted whilst sitting in the flight deck....no CRC for the 330.
I could go on and on...All fleets fly hard here in EK, however, it is difficult to even attempt to compare the 330/340 fleet to any other at EK.
The 330/340 is the bastard stepchild.....