EK logging of bunk time to change
Freight and cummuter pilots work 1000 hours max in the US.
§ 135.265 Flight time limitations and rest requirements: Scheduled
operations.
(a) No certificate holder may schedule any flight crewmember, and no flight
crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time in scheduled operations or in
other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying
will exceed—
(1) 1,200 hours in any calendar year.
operations.
(a) No certificate holder may schedule any flight crewmember, and no flight
crewmember may accept an assignment, for flight time in scheduled operations or in
other commercial flying if that crewmember's total flight time in all commercial flying
will exceed—
(1) 1,200 hours in any calendar year.
this is a FAA rule and as I said before no pilot flies close to that number.
A portrait of these hourly pay scales becomes even more pathetic when you consider that regional airline pilots, who are paid only from the time the airline leaves the gate to the time it arrives at the destination, only are on the clock on average about 21.5 hours per week.
21.5 x 52=..... Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
Last edited by Wizofoz; 9th Mar 2014 at 12:05.
And for Toms mate JetJac, from that document-
Still, it seems pretty definitive- but there will still be a process before it gets incorporated- sooner the better obviously.
NOTE: Flight time as here defined is synonymous with the term “block to block” time or “chock to chock” time in general usage which is measured from the time an aeroplane first moves for
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Try again wiz. Part 135 is nearly all on demand charter and the companies that do a pseudo part 121 scheduled airline ops under 135 rules follow 121 rules for pilot rest requirements. I know many 135 pilots and I know of exactly 0 who have ever flown over 1000 hours. Most average around 500 with a good contingent under 250. I flew 135 for years and never broke 700 hours.
Then why do the regs allow 1200hrs under part 135?
If 1000 hrs is all that's safe, why isn't it the rule across the board?
If 1000 hrs is all that's safe, why isn't it the rule across the board?
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Why is it illegal in Mississippi to house a horse within 50 feet of a road? Just because it's law doesn't mean it's enforced or followed. I'm not saying back in the days of check hauling that guys didn't break 1000 hour mark but outside of maybe some guys doing banner towing, virtually no one is breaking part 121 limits. You show me some on demand charter company who has figured out how to schedule on demand charter pilots so efficiently that they fly over part 121 limits I will eat my words. Even my Netjet friends are lucky to break 600/year.
Your probably right, Likeitis, but the point was simply that while Tom decries how EK interpret the GCAA laws, ALL US FTL schemes, even now that they have been tightened up somewhat, are still less restrictive.
There's a lot more to FTL than just total annual hours, and what commuter pilots used and still can be rosetted to do, particularly in terms of duty days and rest periods,would be downright illegal here and in Europe.
There's a lot more to FTL than just total annual hours, and what commuter pilots used and still can be rosetted to do, particularly in terms of duty days and rest periods,would be downright illegal here and in Europe.
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Again wiz no commuter, freight pilot or major pilot flies over 1000 hour a year. You have dug up some obscure Reg that no one is regulated under.
I will put the US regs up against any country then include all the other work rules negotiated and it is not even close with what you are defending wiz.
I will put the US regs up against any country then include all the other work rules negotiated and it is not even close with what you are defending wiz.
Colgan Tom, Colgan.
All legal and hunky dory under your system to have two underpaid pilots travel across the country and fly dead tired ( and one sick) cause they couldn't afford to live at their base.
Or Comair 5191?
Guys flying after only 8 hrs rest after a long day take off on the wrong runway and kill a bunch of people?
Why has their been a congress mandated change to your rules if they were all so safe Tom?
All legal and hunky dory under your system to have two underpaid pilots travel across the country and fly dead tired ( and one sick) cause they couldn't afford to live at their base.
Or Comair 5191?
Guys flying after only 8 hrs rest after a long day take off on the wrong runway and kill a bunch of people?
Why has their been a congress mandated change to your rules if they were all so safe Tom?
BOF
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Roughly half of US daily commercial departures are conducted by branded regional affiliates operating under scope agreements voted on by US major pilots.
These pilots are paid nothing and are treated terribly..BUT Tom gloats because they operate under FAA FTLs they are the envy of EK pilots...
...the only envy is Toms - having failed a DEC assessment that his two buddies passed a number of years ago.
Tom uses a very pure and hallowed word for airline pilots at the drop of a hat: scab.
No one at EK crossed an EK picket line. There is no union : Ipso facto....there can be no scab.
The lowest paid regional EK FO (FlyDubai - no disrespect guys) gets paid about $100,000 pa tax free. (Possibly more)... Roughly five times in the US.
America is great...but your argument is baseless...as was your application.
f.
These pilots are paid nothing and are treated terribly..BUT Tom gloats because they operate under FAA FTLs they are the envy of EK pilots...
...the only envy is Toms - having failed a DEC assessment that his two buddies passed a number of years ago.
Tom uses a very pure and hallowed word for airline pilots at the drop of a hat: scab.
No one at EK crossed an EK picket line. There is no union : Ipso facto....there can be no scab.
The lowest paid regional EK FO (FlyDubai - no disrespect guys) gets paid about $100,000 pa tax free. (Possibly more)... Roughly five times in the US.
America is great...but your argument is baseless...as was your application.
f.
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WOW-- the idiocy that prevails astounds me some days.
Hours are not hours--that's to say that 1000/1200 (whatever) hours of day flying within 2 time zones is different than the same flying across multiple time zones and at night.
My last year at 'home' (not American) I flew just over 1000 hours but all of it daytime. No problem. 900 hours at EK, over a third at 'night' and over multiple times zones is exhausting.
Different rules, different results. UAE's rules on the face of it, are more limiting but the end result is drastically different.
The American limit flight time to to 8 hours in one day. Seems logical till you allow 'spilt duties' or insufficient rest periods. The Europeans take a different tack and are fighting it out still.
In the end the issue that is relevant to EVERY country is that the science does not matter! The regulators try and the airlines (the MONEY) fight back. The US pilots and the European pilots have been trying to engage so that FTL's use science and, hell, COMMON SENSE, and are making small strides.
IN the end I hope the Europeans and Americans get together, draft LOGICAL FTL's based on science and then regulate ANY airline flying into their airspace to those standards. This way airlines could not leverage their crews as a 'cost saver' to undercut the competition.
Hours are not hours--that's to say that 1000/1200 (whatever) hours of day flying within 2 time zones is different than the same flying across multiple time zones and at night.
My last year at 'home' (not American) I flew just over 1000 hours but all of it daytime. No problem. 900 hours at EK, over a third at 'night' and over multiple times zones is exhausting.
Different rules, different results. UAE's rules on the face of it, are more limiting but the end result is drastically different.
The American limit flight time to to 8 hours in one day. Seems logical till you allow 'spilt duties' or insufficient rest periods. The Europeans take a different tack and are fighting it out still.
In the end the issue that is relevant to EVERY country is that the science does not matter! The regulators try and the airlines (the MONEY) fight back. The US pilots and the European pilots have been trying to engage so that FTL's use science and, hell, COMMON SENSE, and are making small strides.
IN the end I hope the Europeans and Americans get together, draft LOGICAL FTL's based on science and then regulate ANY airline flying into their airspace to those standards. This way airlines could not leverage their crews as a 'cost saver' to undercut the competition.
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Why can't we use the word scab?
Scabs are one of biggest detriment to getting our industry bake to where it use to be. If we don't have pilots coming in and agreeing to work for less than Industry Standard wages we would all be better off as pilots.
I agree that scabs should not be in our industry but by banning the word or the discussion about them does nothing to further out careers. Scabs should be identified and banned, not the term.
Scabs are one of biggest detriment to getting our industry bake to where it use to be. If we don't have pilots coming in and agreeing to work for less than Industry Standard wages we would all be better off as pilots.
I agree that scabs should not be in our industry but by banning the word or the discussion about them does nothing to further out careers. Scabs should be identified and banned, not the term.
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New Tomcat,
First, what is the real meaning of Scab. "Scab, a strikebreaker, a person who works despite strike action or against the will of other employees". Therefore; It is not about using the word or not, it is about using it properly. But even if you use it properly, it does not mean anything anymore. What happened to all the Eastern and Continental scabs? I can tell you. ALPA took them back.. So, what does it tell you? It tells you that is all about money and being selfish. For example, I am against Ryanair hiring practices, where people have to pay for training. Now look at your own backyard: Is Southwest any better, when they require EVERY NEW HIRE (except the Airtran pilots now) to get their 737 type. I am sure you will find a way to justify Southwest and their 5000 pilots that bought their 737 type rating.
First, what is the real meaning of Scab. "Scab, a strikebreaker, a person who works despite strike action or against the will of other employees". Therefore; It is not about using the word or not, it is about using it properly. But even if you use it properly, it does not mean anything anymore. What happened to all the Eastern and Continental scabs? I can tell you. ALPA took them back.. So, what does it tell you? It tells you that is all about money and being selfish. For example, I am against Ryanair hiring practices, where people have to pay for training. Now look at your own backyard: Is Southwest any better, when they require EVERY NEW HIRE (except the Airtran pilots now) to get their 737 type. I am sure you will find a way to justify Southwest and their 5000 pilots that bought their 737 type rating.
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Fatbus
Lol...I also received a colorful pvt msg from kitty cat...pathetic and quite frankly an admission of defeat from an intellect incapable of articulating in the forum...so he goes to pvt msg insults.
Thanks for the white flag Tom
f
Lol...I also received a colorful pvt msg from kitty cat...pathetic and quite frankly an admission of defeat from an intellect incapable of articulating in the forum...so he goes to pvt msg insults.
Thanks for the white flag Tom
f
I had a long PM message exchange with Newpussycat a few years ago- after he realised he couldn't win me over that way, he just started slating me on PPRUNE at every opportunity.
O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
To see oursels as ithers see us!
