2014/15 leave
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Because Sub, it would most likely go something like this…
"The leave planners shall not be liable for injury or damage to or destruction or loss of leave or any other property arising out of or incidental to or in connection with or occurring during the provision of the leave or for the mis-delivery or nondelivery of the bid and whether or not caused or contributed to by the default (including negligence) of the leave planners or any agent, servant or officer of the airline or any other person entitled to the benefit of these conditions"
And if you don't like it…..
"The leave planners shall not be liable for injury or damage to or destruction or loss of leave or any other property arising out of or incidental to or in connection with or occurring during the provision of the leave or for the mis-delivery or nondelivery of the bid and whether or not caused or contributed to by the default (including negligence) of the leave planners or any agent, servant or officer of the airline or any other person entitled to the benefit of these conditions"
And if you don't like it…..
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Stable, I'll try and answer your questions but as Don said the answer to most of them is "maybe, maybe not".
30 days is the legal minimum. You might get more than this. You might not. If you don't, the days you don't get will be carried over into the next year when you might or might not get them. And so on....
Peak leave, min 14, max 28 days.
Off peak min 4 days, max 35 (I think) otherwise you have recency problems as you need one take off and landing within that time. It is impossible to take all your leave in one chunk anyway.
You can only have one period of peak leave in a year. Some years you will get no peak leave.
You can only take 4 leave periods in a year, including your peak one if you get it.
I hope that makes some kind of sense. The rules are archaic and seemingly random.
30 days is the legal minimum. You might get more than this. You might not. If you don't, the days you don't get will be carried over into the next year when you might or might not get them. And so on....
Peak leave, min 14, max 28 days.
Off peak min 4 days, max 35 (I think) otherwise you have recency problems as you need one take off and landing within that time. It is impossible to take all your leave in one chunk anyway.
You can only have one period of peak leave in a year. Some years you will get no peak leave.
You can only take 4 leave periods in a year, including your peak one if you get it.
I hope that makes some kind of sense. The rules are archaic and seemingly random.
Thank you all for clearing things up.
Its annoying to read that they offer 42 days of leave which sounds great, but now with your explanations i doubt the integrity off the system, yet the number of days i will actually be able to get. I am also surprised that you can only take a maximum of 4 periods of leave. All these problems really limit the way you can use that huge entitlement of 42 days.
It sounds more like leave is just a way of getting guaranteed days off especially if you say you can still fly to the maximum hours and the fact that there are no wrap around days. It seems like leave is what it would have been days off in a month, but you can hope to control your days off at 4 times in a year.
Its annoying to read that they offer 42 days of leave which sounds great, but now with your explanations i doubt the integrity off the system, yet the number of days i will actually be able to get. I am also surprised that you can only take a maximum of 4 periods of leave. All these problems really limit the way you can use that huge entitlement of 42 days.
It sounds more like leave is just a way of getting guaranteed days off especially if you say you can still fly to the maximum hours and the fact that there are no wrap around days. It seems like leave is what it would have been days off in a month, but you can hope to control your days off at 4 times in a year.
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Good find there Skiing.
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For my last few leave periods the rostering has been very consistent. I have returned from a ULR within a few hours of my leave starting. Generously, I have been allocated the days off I've requested after the leave, which, unfortunately, has preceded a ULR flight, which means I have to be in Dubai to acclimatise on those days. And if its anything less than a week of leave, requested or forced, expect to do 80+ hours.
As far as I'm concerned, so very subjectively, the leave system and rostering system would be a joke, if it wasn't so similar to being raped. I would believe I'd been unlucky if it didn't happen so often.
As far as I'm concerned, so very subjectively, the leave system and rostering system would be a joke, if it wasn't so similar to being raped. I would believe I'd been unlucky if it didn't happen so often.
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Looking at this wrong
I have been reading a lot of posts about EK, and from what I can tell this latest idea of forcing 330/340 pilots to use their vacation is a massive cost saving technique. Pilots are allotted 42 days a year. 42/365= 11.5% So 11.5% of pilots days are vacation days. Meaning, if EK pilots had no vacation, EK would need 11.5% fewer pilots. Forcing you to take 50% of your vacation days on days the fleet isn't flying means they essentially need 5.75% fewer pilots. (Half of 42 days or 11.5%) So if the 330/340 fleet has 500 pilots they now need about 30 fewer pilots to operate this fleet.
I am not an EK pilot so excuse the round numbers. Say a pilot costs $200,000 a year. (Including housing, medical, et al) They would save 6 million for the year. But this also means they have to hire 30 fewer pilots so they save on the cost of interviewing and training these as well. (This would be offset by the cost of any fleet transfers that will occur.)
My guess is you will shortly see a large transfer of pilots off this fleet. This being said, the 330/340 pilots are not being forced into "vacation" but merely days off. Any pilot who has kids will not be pulling them out of school for 3 weeks towards the end of the term. Also, if there are fewer flights now operating I would assume those flights remaining are all oversold. This makes getting out of Dubai completely impracticable, which means these are days off not vacation.
Vacation is relaxing on a beach with mai ties or skiing with the family, not driving to and from school on the daily school run. It has been proven that mistakes decrease and productivity increases when meaningful vacation is taken. I would imagine this forced "vacation" to have an opposite effect, as this adds stress to the 330/340 pilot group. Balance this safety issue with the $6 million saved. Simply stated, it appears to have taken EK a bit of time to figure out how to share the pain of the runway closure with its pilots.
I am not an EK pilot so excuse the round numbers. Say a pilot costs $200,000 a year. (Including housing, medical, et al) They would save 6 million for the year. But this also means they have to hire 30 fewer pilots so they save on the cost of interviewing and training these as well. (This would be offset by the cost of any fleet transfers that will occur.)
My guess is you will shortly see a large transfer of pilots off this fleet. This being said, the 330/340 pilots are not being forced into "vacation" but merely days off. Any pilot who has kids will not be pulling them out of school for 3 weeks towards the end of the term. Also, if there are fewer flights now operating I would assume those flights remaining are all oversold. This makes getting out of Dubai completely impracticable, which means these are days off not vacation.
Vacation is relaxing on a beach with mai ties or skiing with the family, not driving to and from school on the daily school run. It has been proven that mistakes decrease and productivity increases when meaningful vacation is taken. I would imagine this forced "vacation" to have an opposite effect, as this adds stress to the 330/340 pilot group. Balance this safety issue with the $6 million saved. Simply stated, it appears to have taken EK a bit of time to figure out how to share the pain of the runway closure with its pilots.
