Styoopid airline executives!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: the ridge where the west commences
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Styoopid airline executives!
If you want to buy a 777 you can't find one available, but if you want to sell an A380 there are no customers to be found. What's wrong with these airline execs anyway? Sure the 'bus burns 30% more fuel than anything made outside of 1950's Russia but it's really new and everything….
Emirates, Other Airlines May Rescue The World's Largest Passenger Plane From An Early Death
In the interests of balanced reporting I tried to find a news report that combined "777" and "early death" but there weren't any.
Emirates, Other Airlines May Rescue The World's Largest Passenger Plane From An Early Death
In the interests of balanced reporting I tried to find a news report that combined "777" and "early death" but there weren't any.
Last edited by Dropp the Pilot; 13th Jan 2014 at 14:25.
Too right Drop. It is ****e. Imagine how ****e an aircraft must be to be removed off a route and replaced by one of these.
Yesterday from LAX the 380 carried 58.8t of revenue and burnt 189t, and was still 12t under MTOW (3.21kg fuel/t). The 777 from SFO carried 37t of revenue, burnt 120t and was 1t below MTOW (3.24kg fuel/t).
I am not sure EK can afford to fly these gas wasting Boeings ULR anymore. Oh wait there.....
the Don
Yesterday from LAX the 380 carried 58.8t of revenue and burnt 189t, and was still 12t under MTOW (3.21kg fuel/t). The 777 from SFO carried 37t of revenue, burnt 120t and was 1t below MTOW (3.24kg fuel/t).
I am not sure EK can afford to fly these gas wasting Boeings ULR anymore. Oh wait there.....
the Don
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: not in Dubai anymore
Age: 94
Posts: 713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dropp,
I could say you have an IQ of a 5 year old but I respect the 5 year olds way too much.
I just hope none of our PAX reads any of your comments here.
PS: I am not biased, I flew the 777 16 years ago and loved it, now I fly the 380 and love it too.
I could say you have an IQ of a 5 year old but I respect the 5 year olds way too much.
I just hope none of our PAX reads any of your comments here.
PS: I am not biased, I flew the 777 16 years ago and loved it, now I fly the 380 and love it too.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Miami
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think of the 380 as a highly leverage stock. When things are good, (ie. high load factors) returns on capital are very high.
If and when there is a turndown and the 380's start dispatching half empty, Emirates will be hemorrhaging cash.
So far the 380 equation is working, every flight is oversold with no sign of slowing down.
If and when there is a turndown and the 380's start dispatching half empty, Emirates will be hemorrhaging cash.
So far the 380 equation is working, every flight is oversold with no sign of slowing down.
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In the seat
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's all a big PR stint - if EK didn't order more last year, the whale would have died a slow death!!
The sign of a good aircraft are the number of leasing companies that buy the aircraft, there's only one that bought the 380's, good luck on the resale values!!
The sign of a good aircraft are the number of leasing companies that buy the aircraft, there's only one that bought the 380's, good luck on the resale values!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't buy into the A vs B pissing contest..as long as I get paid the same I'm happy, and I do prefer the whale on my long flights home.
However, I am always curious about the economics of the two aircraft, as the only person who ever seems to be allowed to comment publicly about the 380 is TC..and his only comment is "the passengers love them".
So, in the interests of fairness, accuracy and science, I looked into the figures quoted earlier by Don. Fuel figures didn't take into account taxi fuel Don..by crikey, and the burns and payload were a tad off..turns out the whale burnt (on FP) 3.27kg per tonne of payload vs the B777's 3.26. Nothing in it there. Moving on..nothing to see there.
But what of the other operating costs.....
Cabin crew......1.95 crew per tonne each..a dead heat. Well done contestants. Moving on.
Engine hours. B777, 0.83 hours per tonne. A380, 1.03 hours per tonne. Clear winner is the B777 on that one.
So....(and again I'm neutral on the pissing contest other than having a good laugh watching two male dogs going round and round a tree actually having a proper pissing contest)..is this where the whale costs a lot to operate? 24% more engine maintenance costs must be significant?
And then it comes down to yield from premium classes, which is just too hard for me, other to say I'm happy to contribute to lower yields in F using staff travel.
I don't know. I'm not saying I'm a statistics or yield manager expert, but is this why so few airlines want this aircraft? Thoughts, comments, mild but friendly banter?
However, I am always curious about the economics of the two aircraft, as the only person who ever seems to be allowed to comment publicly about the 380 is TC..and his only comment is "the passengers love them".
So, in the interests of fairness, accuracy and science, I looked into the figures quoted earlier by Don. Fuel figures didn't take into account taxi fuel Don..by crikey, and the burns and payload were a tad off..turns out the whale burnt (on FP) 3.27kg per tonne of payload vs the B777's 3.26. Nothing in it there. Moving on..nothing to see there.
But what of the other operating costs.....
Cabin crew......1.95 crew per tonne each..a dead heat. Well done contestants. Moving on.
Engine hours. B777, 0.83 hours per tonne. A380, 1.03 hours per tonne. Clear winner is the B777 on that one.
So....(and again I'm neutral on the pissing contest other than having a good laugh watching two male dogs going round and round a tree actually having a proper pissing contest)..is this where the whale costs a lot to operate? 24% more engine maintenance costs must be significant?
And then it comes down to yield from premium classes, which is just too hard for me, other to say I'm happy to contribute to lower yields in F using staff travel.
I don't know. I'm not saying I'm a statistics or yield manager expert, but is this why so few airlines want this aircraft? Thoughts, comments, mild but friendly banter?
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In Fresh Air
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kamel,
With you on most of what you mention. So many other variables that we don't have access to, such as dispatch reliability, maintenance costs, landing fees and at what point do the economics of scale even out or separate?
TC will end up either looking like a visionary or a goat with the 380. Probably when the true answers are more transparent, he will be long out of the airline business.
The same can be said for the 787. Time will be the only measure of success, but it is interesting that so few 380s have been ordered by other airlines or leasing companies. Are the exec's there not visionary enough, or "brave" enough or are they bit more cautious? And perhaps the 747-8 is suffering from the same. Could be that four engines just is not the cup of tea for many.
But from our perspective, what pilot in his right mind would rather have two engines rather that four?
With you on most of what you mention. So many other variables that we don't have access to, such as dispatch reliability, maintenance costs, landing fees and at what point do the economics of scale even out or separate?
TC will end up either looking like a visionary or a goat with the 380. Probably when the true answers are more transparent, he will be long out of the airline business.
The same can be said for the 787. Time will be the only measure of success, but it is interesting that so few 380s have been ordered by other airlines or leasing companies. Are the exec's there not visionary enough, or "brave" enough or are they bit more cautious? And perhaps the 747-8 is suffering from the same. Could be that four engines just is not the cup of tea for many.
But from our perspective, what pilot in his right mind would rather have two engines rather that four?
But from our perspective, what pilot in his right mind would rather have two engines rather that four?
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In Fresh Air
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly. Pity all those pilots that lost their jobs with airlines that have flown the 747. I'm sure that those airlines that have gone under, did so because they flew four engine aircraft. Maybe we should begin flying only one engine aircraft....think of the savings.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dusty West
Age: 53
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gawd.....
Another one of these threads where we have to endure the ramblings of those who don't have the facts....I don't have the facts either...nor do I care...TC gets paid to buy the right A/C for the job and put them on the routes he sees fit...let him do it....who really gives a flying fork otherwise? Maybe he got these 380's for free...what the hell do we know except that we have jobs today...
Go to work today and hope you can tomorrow...If you want to do it your way then go out and become the president of some airline and carry on.
As far as I'm concerned and the sentiment of many...its just another damn small room you share with some guy you never met before for 1-17 hours X2. It goes up and comes down...
This industry is overrun with pilots who believe they can do better...there just aren't any who actually became CEO of any reputable airline.
SO...that being said...can we give this stupid 777 vs. 380 crap a break?
Another one of these threads where we have to endure the ramblings of those who don't have the facts....I don't have the facts either...nor do I care...TC gets paid to buy the right A/C for the job and put them on the routes he sees fit...let him do it....who really gives a flying fork otherwise? Maybe he got these 380's for free...what the hell do we know except that we have jobs today...
Go to work today and hope you can tomorrow...If you want to do it your way then go out and become the president of some airline and carry on.
As far as I'm concerned and the sentiment of many...its just another damn small room you share with some guy you never met before for 1-17 hours X2. It goes up and comes down...
This industry is overrun with pilots who believe they can do better...there just aren't any who actually became CEO of any reputable airline.
SO...that being said...can we give this stupid 777 vs. 380 crap a break?
just one observation Kamel , engine figures ? Two types on the whale which are generally staying on wing with pretty good reliability. The classic 777 engines arent bad now, all 3 types. However the worlds biggest engine has a lot of issues and doesnt stay on wing long due to several ongoing issues that GE are trying to address.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Surrounded by aluminum, and the great outdoors
Posts: 3,780
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How many years have you guys worked in fleet management / network planning? Did you successfully build one of the worlds largest and most profitable airlines in the process?
hmmm there's a bit of smoke and mirrors there methinks...
hmmm there's a bit of smoke and mirrors there methinks...
Glofish,
My math was wrong. The SFO flight was 2t below MTOW (altn OOMS AND rrsv 3%). Other figures are still good. Ground distance was only 167nm longer for the LAX but Air distance was only 27nm different. So pretty much the same. Arrival fuels from the plans would be 13t for the Boeing and 16t for the Bus. All from GABI.
the Don
My math was wrong. The SFO flight was 2t below MTOW (altn OOMS AND rrsv 3%). Other figures are still good. Ground distance was only 167nm longer for the LAX but Air distance was only 27nm different. So pretty much the same. Arrival fuels from the plans would be 13t for the Boeing and 16t for the Bus. All from GABI.
the Don
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Posts: 683
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don, so that was the plan, do you know what the actual was?
I'm now becoming more of a 380 fan, I now always seem to be able to get a seat to get back to see the kids…and back to work
If it keeps making as much money as Sir TC says it does then I'm definitely becoming more of a fan, its certainly keeping our contract out-station engineers busy which is good for their job security.
Now back to regular service….Booooo A380 baaaad, 777 goooood.
I'm now becoming more of a 380 fan, I now always seem to be able to get a seat to get back to see the kids…and back to work
If it keeps making as much money as Sir TC says it does then I'm definitely becoming more of a fan, its certainly keeping our contract out-station engineers busy which is good for their job security.
Now back to regular service….Booooo A380 baaaad, 777 goooood.
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still love the 747... Flew on one last night and walked up and down the aircraft.... don't know how much longer they will be in service but she is steady as a rock!
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: is warm and moist
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm with Falcon! Any plane in the fleet that gets me to where I need to go is my favorite. You guys can argue economics, I'll be in my PJ's or at the bar...or both.