TC is now Sir TC

[RexBanner]

It's a fair point. Although he has done a sterling job of lining the pockets of many British expats in Dubai! (Historically of course, this forum gives me the impression those are now days of the past).

[Al Murdoch]

The honours system recognises achievement and service, among other things. They don't necessarily need to be in relation to the UK.

[Capetonian]

So on that basis, Ariel Sharon should have been awarded a knighthood for services to Israel perhaps?

[falconeasydriver]

No Cape, even your attempt at sarcasm misses the point..

Citizens from the 15 Commonwealth Realms (countries which have The Queen as their Monarch, in addition to the UK) are eligible to receive a number of honours, both via the UK Honours system and, where relevant, the honours system of their own country.

Note the word citizens...Ariel Sharon was neither a British or commonwealth citizen, so was therefore not considered! maybe he might qualify for an honorary one.

Foreign citizens occasionally receive honorary knighthoods; they are not dubbed, and they do not use the style 'Sir'.

Such knighthoods are conferred by The Queen, on the advice of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, on those who have made an important contribution to relations between their country and Britain.

Foreign citizens given knighthoods over the years include Chancellor Kohl, President Mitterrand and Mayor Giuliani of New York.

[Capetonian]

I know that, my remark was entirely flippant.

[falconeasydriver]

Then perhaps Cape you could get off your high horse for long enough to acknowledge that TC is at the very least, no less deserving than many many others who have received similar awards?
I'm no great fan of the man either, but I do recognise that outside of London he has done a very great deal to improve access via the airline to the rest of the world. BA have for years neglected the regions, numurous wanderings through water-world with a longtime BA chum who has described at great length the almost allergic reaction that BA had to any thought of even a token presence beyond LHR/LGW merely confirmed to me what many have already said.
You can lament as much as you like about the double standards and hypocrisy that you perceive in a place like Dubai, but the fact is, that is the reality of the place and neither you or I can change it.
Along the way TC has led a highly successful business to the point where he has been recognised for its contribution to the UK, by default it has also led many of us to pursue successful tenures in our time with EK, allowed us to educate our kids, my wife has been able to complete her masters degree, and in general lots of us have experienced the type of job security (within the usual cultural caveats that exist in the Middle East) that many of us would never had experienced back home in Blighty.
I personally own a few rental properties (purchased essentially derelict and rebuilt by myself and local tradespeople) all funded through UK banks on the back of my EK salary, now rented to working families in the UK.....and I am only one of 3400 pilots, 14000 cabin crew who for their part contribute financially to their own home economies. I haven't mentioned the Bangladeshi guy I spoke to on the ramp the other day who was driving a loader who told me his "meagre" EK salary has supported his extended family for the past 8 years and helped him buy a farm.
If all that is detrimental to the wider UK economy, then I'm yet to see it for myself.

[Capetonian]

That's an interesting and valid alternative view, and I'm glad to see that there are people who have benefited from the growth and success of EK.
For every credit, there has to be a debit, so for all those who, like yourself, have profited, others have lost or suffered. That is always going to be so.
My view of the airline and the emirate remain unchanged, 'high horse' or not. You are of course entirely right about BA's arrogance and lack of foresight, but that's another story.

[Wizofoz]

For every credit, there has to be a debit,

Only in a zero-sum game, which global commerce isn't.

[momo95]

I fail to see how EK operating to Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, Birmingham and Gatwick has been detrimental to UK carriers. I mean it's hardly as if BA would have connected those cities to Dubai and the world. They also have Dublin in the bag, a route which Aer Lingus tried a few years back but it proved to be a failure. This guy does deserve recognition.

[8sugarsugar]

who cares, our boss is a knight. Sounds a bit silly.

[crewmeal]

I fail to see how EK operating to Glasgow, Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds, Birmingham and Gatwick has been detrimental to UK carriers. I mean it's hardly as if BA would have connected those cities to Dubai and the world.

Before EK operated (BHX excluded) their vast network many BA flights from the regions connected to the LHR hub with onward connections to DXB SIN and BKK, so BA have all but lost that market to EK. Don't forget BA only have one flight a day through to SYD, but EK have many connections via DXB all available from your local airport. A small price to pay who knows? BA's tired old frames also contribute to the popularity with other carriers to the Gulf (see plenty of threads on here and flyertalk).

Now if EK break into the UK - Atlantic market which I'm sure they will be looking at then that certainly will have a detrimental affect on BA. Infact I bet many BA domestic flights will go.

[momo95]

"Now if EK break into the UK - Atlantic market"

Fair point, they've done a similar Atlantic thing with Milan and JFK.

[Craggenmore]

Capey

EK has certainly provided employment opportunities for people in the UK at and around the regional airports from which it operates, but it has taken revenue from UK carriers by doing so. One might argue, correctly, that they should have seen and availed themselves of those business opportunities.

EK put 5 380's in and out of LHR each day. These planes are mostly full. APD for each of the 76 business class seats to DXB is £130 per person.

That's £18 million a year just for Business APD.

Now add in 14 first class seats and 427 economy seats daily X 5 X 365.

Now add in fuel, airport charges, catering and every thing else.

Now add....

2 GLA's a day 777's
3 MAN's a day 2 x 777's and 1 x 380
1 NCL's a day 777
1 BHX's a day 777
and lastly 3 LGW's a day 3 x 777 (380 from late March)

I'm surprised that the UK government actually care for BA anymore especially as all it's helping to do is keep Iberia afloat.

EK's contribution to the UK economy is large!

WW a knighthood - really? He's done nothing. He's taken over the running of a backwards looking airline. Why aren't BA sending 5 747's to Dubai each day?

[Capetonian]

Craggenmore Interesting points you've raised, but I think the fallacy in your argument about APD is that if EK didn't offer such a huge range of origins and destinations, that APD would still be paid by other airlines operating the same route, so if EK didn't exist or operate, it wouldn't be lost to the Exchequer, it would simply come from a different source.

I appreciate that EK may generate a certain amount of new traffic because of their low fares, but that is limited. For example, I have friends who used to travel on EK two or three times a year to ZA and CN, whereas if they couldn't find such cheap fares they would travel less. As it happens, their last two experiences with EK have been so bad that having used their Miles for upgrades on their last flights, they are now switching their loyalty to other carriers. The APD will still be paid on those flights.

[BYMONEK]

CAP

Same money but lost to other airlines? Not really, that would have to assume that the other airlines would also operate A380's on those same 5 slots into LHR AND that most of those flights had a high load factor in the premium cabins. 90 potential premium pax per single departure is a lot of revenue for the UK government.

[glofish]

A remark on the sideline, applying to all flights and used as argument here:

Does anyone know how many passengers effectively pay premium and how many are upgraded?

I am a bit sceptical, recent flights I could follow (all fleets) showed F around 15%, C 25% ........ rest is upgrade / filling.

These premium seat equations do not convince me.

[Capetonian]

BYMONEK

Why? If the passengers are travelling anyway in premium it makes no difference which airline they travel on. Only if Emirates are generating hitherto untapped business then your argument is valid.

And potential revenue is worth zero.

[crewmeal]

Why aren't BA sending 5 747's to Dubai each day?

Because BA don't have a hub in DXB. I can't give a percentage of transit pax that go onwards from DXB, but I bet it's high.

2 GLA's a day 777's
3 MAN's a day 2 x 777's and 1 x 380
1 NCL's a day 777
1 BHX's a day 777
and lastly 3 LGW's a day 3 x 777 (380 from late March)

Slight ammendment - it's 2 a day.

[Wizofoz]

Why? If the passengers are travelling anyway in premium it makes no difference which airline they travel on.

It does if EK is the only airline on the routs using the A 380, or if the EK 777 is the largest aircraft to that destination (which is the case with most European flights)

Airport slots are a finite resource. EK can put more passengers and therefore more revenue into an airport per slot than anyone else.

[Wizofoz]

I can't give a percentage of transit pax that go onwards from DXB, but I bet it's high.

70%- and a lot of the 30% are only breaking the journey before travelling on to other destinations.